Mars Hill, Driscoll and so on

[cubanito]

I often listen to Janet Mefferd radio on the web, and for quite awhile, there has been a mess over
1- Driscoll using Mars Hill as his personal fiefdom
2- Driscoll (or some unamed ghostwriter) plagiarising a bunch of stuff
and the latest, 3- Paying >$200K to game the publishing system and get the partly plagiarized book "Real Marriage" on the Best Seller lists.

SO....

1- Is this the place to chat about this, as Driscoll is part of the "Young Restless Reformend" phenom?

2- Given this is all very public knowledge and is now being used by the world to smear Christianity; should we be informed and discuss it or is this too much like backbiting gossip we should avoid?

3- If we should chat about it, anybody know some way that we should curtail this "celebrity pastor" meltdown rollercoaster? It's one thing when Tony Campolo and the Pentecostal circus with their huge trainwreck history do it. They are not as difficult to dissociate from more theologically sound bodies. But Driscoll has been more Reformed, and his trainwreck is in our back yard.

JR

 

[JM]

A friend of mind posted the info on Facebook last night. Shady dealings for sure.

Mark Driscoll’s Problems, and Ours | Web Exclusives | First Things

 

[stenerson]

I don't know.. I watched him on youtube to understand the hype. Just always seemed like a showboat to me..He knows sex sells and uses the subject to get on TV/talkshows. Then there's his claim that God reveals personal details about the lives of people he counsels (such as past sins or abuse they suffered)..I realize he has had success growing a church in a difficult city..I just never trusted the guy ( even if he is a calvinist).

 

[twin1954]

I would say that we are to be aware of what is going on but that we need not keep the pot stirred by discussing it. We can't solve the problem. The world will shine enough light on it to expose all the dirty little secrets but we do not need to. I honestly look at it this way, he was put where he is by the Lord for the very purpose that He is accomplishing by Driscoll. What that purpose turns out to be I don't know but I do know that it will be for His glory and the good of His people.

It always saddens us when one who is famous falls and the media today descend like vultures. I was never a fan of Driscoll but I never wanted to see him disgraced. When that happens we all suffer.

 

[AndOne]

I would say let's discuss it so that others are aware of it. The only press this thing has gotten was on the Janet Mefford show and some very brief discussion on the James White show.

A few years ago I was really taken in by Driscoll and became quite enamored with him. He can do that to you and so I think it's good for folks to see that there are some questions about him in the Reformed camp.

 

[twin1954]

I would say let's discuss it so that others are aware of it. The only press this thing has gotten was on the Janet Mefford show and some very brief discussion on the James White show.

A few years ago I was really taken in by Driscoll and became quite enamored with him. He can do that to you and so I think it's good for folks to see that there are some questions about him in the Reformed camp.

When is it ever good to air our dirty laundry in public?

 

[AndOne]

When is it ever good to air our dirty laundry in public?

I don't know that I see this as airing dirty laundry. We are talking about a calculated, dishonest strategy by a leader in the church to boost sales which leads to profit. Also - the dishonest practice of a church leader engaged in plagiarism.

Dirty laundry would be bringing up a past issue that had been repented of or corrected. Or it could be bringing up a personal issue that is no one's business. That's not the case here.

 

[stenerson]

I don't know that I see this as airing dirty laundry. We are talking about a calculated, dishonest strategy by a leader in the church to boost sales which leads to profit. Also - the dishonest practice of a church leader engaged in plagiarism.

Dirty laundry would be bringing up a past issue that had been repented of or corrected. Or it could be bringing up a personal issue that is no one's business. That's not the case here.

I agree..If the Church doesn't publicly and transparently air these differences and regulate ourselves we lose credibility.

 

[GQCHRIS]

Driscoll definitely has many falls, but if people want to shed the light on problems like this, let them start with Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Fred Price, Creflo Dollar just to start off with.

 

[twin1954]

I don't know that I see this as airing dirty laundry. We are talking about a calculated, dishonest strategy by a leader in the church to boost sales which leads to profit. Also - the dishonest practice of a church leader engaged in plagiarism.

Dirty laundry would be bringing up a past issue that had been repented of or corrected. Or it could be bringing up a personal issue that is no one's business. That's not the case here.

Are these things accusations or are they proven?

The thing is for me that I am convinced that we should never publically disgrace a brother. According to 1Cor. 13 I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[AndOne]

Are these things accusations or are they proven?

The thing is for me that I am convinced that we should never publically disgrace a brother. According to 1Cor. 13 I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I have seen the plagiarism for myself so I can attest to that. Regarding the stacking the deck to be on the New York Times best seller list I only heard through the Janet Mefford website. Of interest is the fact that no secular news outlets have made these accusations.

 

[AndOne]

Driscoll definitely has many falls, but if people want to shed the light on problems like this, let them start with Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Fred Price, Creflo Dollar just to start off with.

Except those guys aren't Christians - Driscoll is.

 

[AndOne]

The latest on this: Mark Driscoll Retracts Bestseller Book Status, Resets Life | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com

 

[GQ Chris]

Except those guys aren't Christians - Driscoll is.

Oh they're not?

 

[JM]

Driscoll Controversy – repentance?

Mark Driscoll Apologizes And Says He’s Changing His Life (and I support him)

The latest Mark Driscoll dust-up and real repentance - Think Christian

Al Mohler on Mark Driscoll | HeadHeartHand Blog

 

[cubanito]

Seems to me when Paul heard about somebody in Corinth being with their father's wife he aired the laundry very publicly, even though the wasn't there. One of the reasons was precisely because the lost were looking. The bar should be much higher for those with thousands of followers. These are not rumor campaigns, these are clear facts that are at best sleazy. Tolerate this and you can be certain abuse will grow.

As to Osteem and others, there's not much good I have to say about them, but we ought to start in our own house.

JR

 

[AndOne]

Seems to me when Paul heard about somebody in Corinth being with their father's wife he aired the laundry very publicly, even though the wasn't there. One of the reasons was precisely because the lost were looking. The bar should be much higher for those with thousands of followers. These are not rumor campaigns, these are clear facts that are at best sleazy. Tolerate this and you can be certain abuse will grow.

As to Osteem and others, there's not much good I have to say about them, but we ought to start in our own house.

JR

Yea - I shouldn't have said they weren't Christians. Sorry about that - but like you I got serious issues w/ them.

 

[GQ Chris]

Yeah.

 

[cubanito]

So now Mars Hill has "erased" all emails for more than about 3 months old. It is annoying that a group that projects an image of being computer/net savvy would think emails can be erased. That they wish to try and hide the errors, instead of confessing and making amends is bad enough. The STUPIDITY of a multisite megachurch enmeshed in the modern web of trying to do it is astonoshing. If they think this would serve to evade lawsuits (none filed) by trying to cover up what can not be hidden they are only inviting juries to assume they KNEW it was wrong.

The words of a non-Christian succesful businessman I knew comes to mind: "I'd rather work with someone out to try to harm and deceive me than with someone stupid. I can try to predict and protect against the first; but there is no predicting stupid."

Mars Hill is stuck on stupid, and it is not only sad, it is something we should be angry about.

JR

 

[Meanstreak]

All pastors have error in their theology to some degree. Nobody is perfect. If we threw out a pastor everytime we heard something wrong, we'd have no pastors left.

I've listened to Mark Driscoll for years. But yeah, every once in a while he makes me raise an eyebrow, and most of those instances are highly publicized in articles and message threads like this one. But in between all the "scandals", Mark Driscoll preaches A LOT of truth. He preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and calls sinners to repent, which is foreign to 90% of modern day pastors.

Hang onto the good, throw out the bad. If Mark Driscoll offends you, listen to someone else.