Non-Pauline Christians

[drstevej]

I use the Aramaic English NT though I do not read Aramaic.
You are accusing me of not liking Yeshua which is not the case.

I use the name Yeshua, you accuse me of not liking Yeshua, which is not the case at all.

The NT was not written in Aramaic. Use whatever you want but you do not like the words penned by the NT authors.

There is no such thing as a language called Aramaic English.

 

[RevelationTestament]

You have failed to show one example of Jesus mentioning a rapture.
The second coming was in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow. Sorry, there was no rapture. Instead, Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered the elect of all the Church together, to Nicea.

I don't see much point in arguing here because it is obvious you have a predetermined view. But Constantine was not even Christian IMO, having not even accepted baptism during his reign. Rather, he ruled as the head of the Roman pagan religion, the pontifex maximus. Yet, he referred to himself as the 13th apostle, etc, while according to the historians killing off his wife, son, brother-in-law, nephew, etc. He was a wolf come in sheep's clothing.

 

[All Souls]

The NT was not written in Aramaic. Use whatever you want but you do not like the words penned by the NT authors.

There is no such thing as a language called Aramaic English.

He is using Aent.org: Aramaic English New Testament | The official Messianic Peshitta Study Bible

 

[drstevej]

He is using Aent.org: Aramaic English New Testament | The official Messianic Peshitta Study Bible

And there is The Cotton Patch Gospels too.

 

[All Souls]

Quite, I can't find which MSS they are basing their Aramaic text on!

 

[Joseph474]

This is a false accusation.

 

[All Souls]

I do not know..
It is translated by Andrew Roth, etc.
All names are Hebrew/Aramaic.
Like Y'shua
Yochanan
etc

Ok, well I would suggest you find out. I suspect that it is a translation of the Greek into Aramaic!

 

[All Souls]

This is a false accusation.

What is?

 

[Joseph474]

he is using Aent.org: Aramaic English New Testament | The official Messianic Peshitta Study Bible

True.
Also the New English Translation.

 

[All Souls]

True.

Ok, why is this superior to the Greek MSS?

 

[All Souls]

Have you read any of these:

*Ehrman, Bart D., Michael W. Holmes, and Bruce M. Metzger, eds. The Text of the New Testament in Contemporary Research. Essays on the Status Quaestionis. SD 46. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1995.

*Epp, Eldon J., and Gordon D. Fee. Studies in the Theory and Method of New Testament Textual Criticism. SD 45. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1993.

Metzger, Bruce M. and Ehrman, Bart D. The Text of the New Testament. Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration. 4rd ed. New York/Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2005.

*Wachtel, Klaus and Michael W. Holmes, eds. The Textual History of the Greek New Testament: Changing Views in Contemporary Research. Text-Critical Studies 9. Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature, 2011.

*Hill, Charles E. and Michael J. Kruger, eds. The Early Text of the New Testament (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2012).

*Metzger, Bruce M., A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament. 2d ed. Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1994.

 

[All Souls]

or these: Syriac NT bibliography | Evangelical Textual Criticism

 

[Joseph474]

Ok, why is this superior to the Greek MSS?

Because Yeshua and his disciples read Hebrew and Aramaic. Non-hellenized Jews at that time can not read Greek.

 

[All Souls]

Because Yeshua and his disciples read Hebrew and Aramaic. Non-hellenized Jews at that time can not read Greek.

Ok, I think you have some wires crossed. The Bible you're reading in Aramaic (or an English translation from Aramaic) is an Aramaic translation of Greek MSS. So you're not reading a better MSS at all!

In reality you are reading:

Greek MSS ---> Aramaic translation --->English translation​

Whereas I am reading:

Greek MSS ---> English translation​

I am also unsure where you're getting your information from, Greek was known in Palestine! See this which concludes:

By way of conclusion, I would maintain that the most commonly used language of Palestine in the first century A.D. was Aramaic, but that many Palestinian Jews, not only those in Hellenistic towns, but farmers and craftsmen of less obviously Hellenized areas used Greek, at least as a second language.

 

[Joseph474]

Paul, the False Apostle - Truthseekers.co.za

 

[All Souls]

Paul, the False Apostle - Truthseekers.co.za

This does not address my post.

 

[Der Alte]

And there is The Cotton Patch Gospels too.

Hey!~ I preached from that once. The story of "A man was going from
Atlanta to Albany and some gangsters held him up."

 

[wintermile]

Paul, the False Apostle - Truthseekers.co.za

You are promoting again.

You are not aware of the Persecuted Church.

Jewish authorities were "repeatedly" harsh with Apostle Paul, who glorified Yeshua, kept Yeshua's commandments and was torah-observant. Those in the Persecuted Church have glorified the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit reciting Apostle Paul's scriptures! Men, women and children who have experienced torture for Yeshua's name were/are comforted by the Word. Whether being hung by their thumbs or experiencing another form of torture, persecuted believers mentally read the Holy Bible, including Apostle Paul's letters. I will repeat this. Encouraging themselves to remain Christ-like, persecuted believers instruct themselves to glorify Yeshua reciting scriptures from the Holy Bible, including Romans, 1and 2 Corinthians, Galations, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon.

Your promotion of falsehoods will never be tolerated by the Persecuted Church.

 

[Joseph474]

You are promoting again.

You are not aware of the Persecuted Church.

Jewish authorities were "repeatedly" harsh with Apostle Paul, who glorified Yeshua, kept Yeshua's commandments and was torah-observant. Those in the Persecuted Church have glorified the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit reciting Apostle Paul's scriptures! Men, women and children who have experienced torture for Yeshua's name were/are comforted by the Word. Whether being hung by their thumbs or experiencing another form of torture, persecuted believers mentally read the Holy Bible, including Apostle Paul's letters. I will repeat this. Encouraging themselves to remain Christ-like, persecuted believers instruct themselves to glorify Yeshua reciting scriptures from the Holy Bible, including Romans, 1and 2 Corinthians, Galations, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon.

Your promotion of falsehoods will never be tolerated by the Persecuted Church.

I do sympathize with the persecuted churches.
But this has nothing to do with: whether Paul is legitimate.
Actually if Paul was Torah-observant he should not be opposed.

The reason I oppose him is his supposed lawlessness and paganizing.

 

[wintermile]

I do sympathize with the persecuted churches.
But this has nothing to do with: whether Paul is legitimate.
Actually if Paul was Torah-observant he should not be opposed.

The reason I oppose him is his supposed lawlessness and paganizing.

The Persecuted Church rejects false teachings. Being led by false teachers, you are demonstrating you are unaware of the Persecuted Church. Persecuted believers are aware of Apostle Paul's teachings and the impact each teaching has upon their lives.

An awareness of the Persecuted Chuch is commanded. Those persecuted thirst for Yeshua's Word at a different rate then those who are not. I am somewhat aware that persecuted believers are very knowledgeable about Apostle Paul's teachings and tribulations. What the Persecuted Church has to say on the matter is important as they expect and support studies of the Early Church.

In Paul Within Messiah, Torah, Judaism Olson provides a heartening perspective about Apostle Paul's law observance and teachings.


Paul within Messiah, Torah, and Judaism

In the midst of passionate argument against Yeshua-believing Gentiles converting to Judaism, Paul uses the fact of his own Torah observance to argue against Gentile Torah observance. "I testify to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obliged to obey the entire Law." (Gal 5:3) The logic of his argument requires Paul himself to be observant.[13] Otherwise his readers might retort that they could be circumcised without being obligated to the Law-just like Paul. Jews are to remain Jews and Gentiles are to remain Gentiles (1 Cor 7:17-20). In Romans 3:29-20, such difference is implied by the argument that God is God of both Jews and Gentiles.[14]