World Vision hiring gays?

[ByTheSpirit]

And that is exactly the stand World Vision took when they did what they did. They chose ideology over feeding those they swore to help.

No I disagree, those who reacted so rashly are the ones who chose to take food away from the poor and hungry. Let's try not to shift blame from whom it is due. Those who chose to stop funding World Vision because of what happened are at blame here. Perhaps World Vision is a small amount, but there were other ways to approach the problem, not oh yeah let's just stop giving.

 

[Faulty]

No I disagree, those who reacted so rashly are the ones who chose to take food away from the poor and hungry. Let's try not to shift blame from whom it is due. Those who chose to stop funding World Vision because of what happened are at blame here. Perhaps World Vision is a small amount, but there were other ways to approach the problem, not oh yeah let's just stop giving.

A small amount? They are the very cause of the issue? I'm not the one shifting the blame. The donors didn't get together independently to do this on their own, rather they were forced to react based on the action of other, and they reacted the only way donors can react.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

A small amount? They are the very cause of the issue? I'm not the one shifting the blame. The donors didn't get together independently to do this on their own, rather they were forced to react based on the action of other, and they reacted the only way donors can react.

"forced to react"? Who exactly forced anyone to react in the way of stopping funding to the organization? Was it Franklin Graham and his "World Vision doesn't believe in the Bible" speech? Or George Wood and his "Blacklist World Vision" statement?

The reaction by so many (and I presume yourself) that has led to children overseas not being funded anymore is deplorable. You don't agree, that's fine. But as I've said before and no one here has refuted it. Jesus said love one another, even your enemies as yourself. This is the true mark of discipleship, not strictly enforcing one's own interpretation of scriptural commands.

That seems to apply to all people except homosexuals in most Christian circles.

 

[murjahel]

If one is sponsoring a child, they should continue... as long as they are sure that the money is truly used for that reason.... when they may choose to support another child, they can find other needy and hungry children in other organizations...

my taxes pay for a lot of food stamps... etc... and yet, I do not agree with the morals and ethics of the gov't that takes my money... but, I will not vote for those unethical, immoral ones who are sharing my taxes with sinful things...

Compassion international is a great organization... and I use them, and hope and pray that they stay Christian in their work... so far, only good results...

it is not un-love to find an organization that is up to the morality and ethical and Christian standards we hold...

 

[ByTheSpirit]

If one is sponsoring a child, they should continue... as long as they are sure that the money is truly used for that reason.... when they may choose to support another child, they can find other needy and hungry children in other organizations...

my taxes pay for a lot of food stamps... etc... and yet, I do not agree with the morals and ethics of the gov't that takes my money... but, I will not vote for those unethical, immoral ones who are sharing my taxes with sinful things...

Compassion international is a great organization... and I use them, and hope and pray that they stay Christian in their work... so far, only good results...

it is not un-love to find an organization that is up to the morality and ethical and Christian standards we hold...

Now see, I can support this! But this is not the rhetoric that was coming from high ranking members of other organizations. When they say, stop supporting World Vision that implies a complete and total cessation of funding. That is vastly different than saying, continue to sponsor those you are sponsoring, just find another organization to future sponsor through. Thanks!

 

[jiminpa]

Now see, I can support this! But this is not the rhetoric that was coming from high ranking members of other organizations. When they say, stop supporting World Vision that implies a complete and total cessation of funding. That is vastly different than saying, continue to sponsor those you are sponsoring, just find another organization to future sponsor through. Thanks!

But that is exactly what World Vision was, literally, banking on. The real Christians facing the moral dilemma between supporting the homosexual agenda and withdrawing crucial support from a needy child innocent of the whole issue, while appeasing and drawing in the fake Christians. Just about defines despicable.

The supporters need to write a letter demanding the immediate resignation of the entire board of World Vision, with the withdrawal of funding on the table otherwise.

 

[lismore]

But that is exactly what World Vision was, literally, banking on. The real Christians facing the moral dilemma between supporting the homosexual agenda and withdrawing crucial support from a needy child innocent of the whole issue, while appeasing and drawing in the fake Christians. Just about defines despicable.

The supporters need to write a letter demanding the immediate resignation of the entire board of World Vision, with the withdrawal of funding on the table otherwise.

Amen. How could true Christian leaders even consider giving the green light to same sex marriage.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But that is exactly what World Vision was, literally, banking on. The real Christians facing the moral dilemma between supporting the homosexual agenda and withdrawing crucial support from a needy child innocent of the whole issue, while appeasing and drawing in the fake Christians. Just about defines despicable.

The supporters need to write a letter demanding the immediate resignation of the entire board of World Vision, with the withdrawal of funding on the table otherwise.

Well, see, withdrawing funds is not and never was an option in my book. Let me give you an example. I have supported a boy, his name is Jubaiar from Malaysia, for over 2 years now. This little guy is like a son to me almost. I interact with him constantly, and though I have not yet met him personally I have a very real connection with him and his family. So what you are espousing is that I should seriously consider ceasing my contributions that give him and his family, even his community, food and other vital living essentials because WV wants to make a controversial decision. A decision that poor little boy had nothing to do with. No thanks, as I've said in other posts I repeat, again:

Jesus said the mark of true discipleship is love for one another, not how strictly we enforce our interpretation of scripture. John expounds on that and says in 1 John 3 that true love is giving to those who are truly in need. So I find continuing my support through WV is the only option I have, and I would hope others felt that way too.

IF, if if if, they were already doing so. Sure, if you aren't giving through WV, go somewhere else, but let's not stop funding children through WV that are already being given to because of something like this.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But that is exactly what World Vision was, literally, banking on. The real Christians facing the moral dilemma between supporting the homosexual agenda and withdrawing crucial support from a needy child innocent of the whole issue, while appeasing and drawing in the fake Christians. Just about defines despicable.

The supporters need to write a letter demanding the immediate resignation of the entire board of World Vision, with the withdrawal of funding on the table otherwise.

Amen. How could true Christian leaders even consider giving the green light to same sex marriage.

See what you are missing is the President of the U.S. branch of World Vision gave an interview about this issue (before it was changed back to pre-same sex) and said:

"This is not an endorsement of same-sex marriage. We have decided we are not going to get into that debate. Nor is this a rejection of traditional marriage, which we affirm and support."

The main issue at hand was "World Vision hopes to dodge the division currently "tearing churches apart" over same-sex relationships by solidifying its long-held philosophy as a parachurch organization: to defer to churches and denominations on theological issues, so that it (World Vision) can focus on uniting Christians around serving the poor."

Of course if you're screaming for blood already about it, you won't accept the man's word concerning the issue. So why am I posting this? I don't know. In the hopes some may accept his testimony as true and honest and see World Vision doesn't consider itself an authority on church doctrine, but rather as an organization meant to aid the poor around the world.

 

[lismore]

The main issue at hand was "World Vision hopes to dodge the division currently "tearing churches apart" over same-sex relationships by solidifying its long-held philosophy as a parachurch organization: to defer to churches and denominations on theological issues, so that it (World Vision) can focus on uniting Christians around serving the poor."

But it's not true. The issue of gay marriage cannot tear churches apart. It's so far off the scale that no true Christian could comprehend it. What's tearing churches apart is the number of church members who are not Christians.

I know of no scriptural justification for gay marriage do you?

 

[murjahel]

But it's not true. The issue of gay marriage cannot tear churches apart. It's so far off the scale that no true Christian could comprehend it. What's tearing churches apart is the number of church members who are not Christians.

Lifeway Research, in September of 2011, conducted a survey. They found that 44% of Americans believe homosexuality is a sin. A close 43% do not believe it is a sin. The other 13% are not sure.

Most of the ones who believe it is a sin are church goers. They found that 71 % of those attending church at least once a week believe it is a sin. There are 82% of evangelical Christians who know homosexuality to be a sin.

Yet, only 8 % of those who do not attend that often believe it is a sin.


Therefore, there is the Biblical teaching being taught, but the world’s teaching, the reprobate mentality is being successfully taught to the world. Therefore, ministry to the reprobate thinking is a challenge.

A Gallup poll says that 56% of Americans think homosexuality is ‘morally acceptable.’ That difference is due to the definition of ‘sin’. Sin is doing something that is a transgression of divine law. While many do not consider God’s opinion at all, and think ‘morally acceptable’ is more in line with what their peer group thinks. So, many find homosexuality to be acceptable by their peer group, therefore assuming it is all right. A Christian’s peer group includes Jesus. He is with us always, He is present to lead, guide, encourage. His opinion overrules the opinion of anyone else in the life of a true child of God.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But it's not true. The issue of gay marriage cannot tear churches apart. It's so far off the scale that no true Christian could comprehend it. What's tearing churches apart is the number of church members who are not Christians.

I know of no scriptural justification for gay marriage do you?

If we are going to go this route, then perhaps people should only support those organizations that conform completely with their specific belief sets... For if you support an organization such as the BGEA that is cessationist in nature, then how is that different from supporting an organization that wants to hire gay men and women? After all cessationism can be considered a sin out of ignorance or whatever.

Denominational/doctrinal organizations and nothing more....

 

[Faulty]

If we are going to go this route, then perhaps people should only support those organizations that conform completely with their specific belief sets... For if you support an organization such as the BGEA that is cessationist in nature, then how is that different from supporting an organization that wants to hire gay men and women? After all cessationism can be considered a sin out of ignorance or whatever.

Denominational/doctrinal organizations and nothing more....

Shoot, let's go the other way and start supporting organizations that strive to teach witchcraft other people, especially children, and who promote abortion.

I mean if we are expected to support organizations who proclaim the name of Christ and overt and rebellious sin, why not?

 

[Faulty]

See what you are missing is the President of the U.S. branch of World Vision gave an interview about this issue (before it was changed back to pre-same sex) and said:

"This is not an endorsement of same-sex marriage. We have decided we are not going to get into that debate. Nor is this a rejection of traditional marriage, which we affirm and support."

The main issue at hand was "World Vision hopes to dodge the division currently "tearing churches apart" over same-sex relationships by solidifying its long-held philosophy as a parachurch organization: to defer to churches and denominations on theological issues, so that it (World Vision) can focus on uniting Christians around serving the poor."

Of course if you're screaming for blood already about it, you won't accept the man's word concerning the issue. So why am I posting this? I don't know. In the hopes some may accept his testimony as true and honest and see World Vision doesn't consider itself an authority on church doctrine, but rather as an organization meant to aid the poor around the world.

Well, you see the issue don't you? He says they hope to "dodge the division" then that's exactly what they proceed NOT to do and jump directly into it.

If a man insists he's turning left and then turns right, am I to just accept and insist he turned left instead because he said that's what he would do? That's gullibility.

 

[mourningdove~]

I have supported a boy, his name is Jubaiar from Malaysia, for over 2 years now. This little guy is like a son to me almost. I interact with him constantly, and though I have not yet met him personally I have a very real connection with him and his family. So what you are espousing is that I should seriously consider ceasing my contributions that give him and his family, even his community, food and other vital living essentials because WV wants to make a controversial decision. A decision that poor little boy had nothing to do with.

Life on this earth isn't fair.

Looking at the hardships persons suffer in this world, I do wonder often at the unfairness of things. This is where trust in God and in His sovereignty and love and wisdom and power help me much. God is in control, and of Jubaiar's life also.

But Jubaiar is blessed to have you and your family sponsoring him. Your love and empathy towards his situation is no doubt a great blessing to his life. It is something God is doing for Jubaiar at this time in his life.

I do hope that Jubaiar will find faith in Christ, if he has not already. That is what Jubaiar and each of us needs most to make it thru this life, and onto the next in heaven with God.

There will be no unfairness, in heaven.
Praise God.

 

[lismore]

For if you support an organization such as the BGEA that is cessationist in nature, then how is that different from supporting an organization that wants to hire gay men and women? ....

But it's not about hiring gay men and women. It's about giving sanction to gay marriage. There is a huge difference.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But it's not about hiring gay men and women. It's about giving sanction to gay marriage. There is a huge difference.

But that is your take on it. The President of the U.S. branch of World Vision said it was about the exact opposite as you say. You say it is about sanctioning gay marriage and he said they do no such thing. So who am I to believe? Until I find some reason to not believe his word, I can't say he lied. Really it's a moot point anyway, because the premise is the same regardless, that is we should not take away from those in need because we do not agree with the decisions of an organization.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Shoot, let's go the other way and start supporting organizations that strive to teach witchcraft other people, especially children, and who promote abortion.

I mean if we are expected to support organizations who proclaim the name of Christ and overt and rebellious sin, why not?

You point is taken and I understand where you come from. Perhaps...

But again, World Vision did not say they have sanctioned gay marriage, but rather just opened hiring to same sex couples (or those involved therein)...

It is what it is, you don't accept their decision and that's fine, I'm not saying, nor have I ever said I do too. Rather, my whole basis of discussion is about the after effects and direct reprocussions of saying, Stop giving to World Vision altogether.

It's hardly something I find God to be accepting of, at least until all other means of resolution have been met. My view would be MUCH different had George Wood, Franklin Graham, and others tried to reconcile their differences with World Vision before going to the "blacklist" option.

 

[murjahel]

I am not justifying what World Vision began to do, but I will say that in our age, there is a spiritual blindness, that has 'crept' upon the church and those in it... and many do not see the evil of some things, as the Bible still proclaims that they are...

Perhaps the Moffatt translation of the Bible is clearest on a passage of Ephesians. Paul says there that ‘in the Lord, I insist and protest...’ How often do ministers, in the Lord, insist and protest some evils anymore?

Yet, Paul has something in Ephesians to say that we need to do, and he is ‘insisting’ and is making a ‘protest’ something. There are many who suggest, encourage, and offer advice, but Paul, guided by the Spirit of God here, is INSISTING, and PROTESTING.

Ephesians 4:17-19 (MOFF)
17 Now in the Lord I insist and protest that you must give up living like pagans; for their purposes are futile,
18 their intelligence is darkened, they are estranged from the life of God by the ignorance which their dullness of heart has produced in them
19 men who have recklessly abandoned themselves to sensuality, with a lust for the business of impurity in every shape and form.

The ‘pagan’ influence in that time was very great. The society had instilled in many now Christian, a culture of futility, of depravity, and of evil. Today, we live in society of perverseness and evil also. Story lines on the cinemas are proclaiming that homosexuality is moral, that abortion is wise, that perverseness and iniquity are normal. The students in school are encouraged to try homosexuality, elementary students are shown methods of birth control without moral encouragement to avoid premarital sex. The hours ones spends in front of television programs is far greater than the time spent in Bible study and in Christian influence.

What is the result? Their ‘intelligence is darkened’, they are ‘estranged from the life of God’ and they are ‘ignorant’ due to the ‘dullness of heart’ that the devil’s crowd has produced in them. This is how Moffat translated and understood those verses. Paul’s time, as noted by Paul there, was much like our society today. World Vision is, was, and hopefully no longer will be 'ignorant' of the evil that is being painted by society as being pure and good...

Note the King James translation of that passage:
Ephesians 4:17-32 (KJV)
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The ‘vanity’ or ‘worthlessness’ of the mind in many today is evident. The thoughts and concerns of people today is too much on things not Godly. They worry over the stock market, they fret their sports team record, they are concerned the lawn service may miss getting the June bugs. The souls of their loved ones may hang in precarious jeopardy, the church may be not seeing any revival or move of the Holy Spirit, the political decisions are based on economics and not on morals and ethics. Their minds may be filled with inappropriate contentography, their mouths may be condoning abortion and perversions, instead of the Word of God. This ‘vanity of their mind’ has brought about a ‘darkened’ view of life, and they are blind to what God wants them to know and to do.

The ‘blindness of their heart’ is a major problem in our day, as it was in Paul’s.

DEFINITION OF THE WORD, ‘blindness’​

The words ‘blind’ and ‘blindness’, in the Greek, come from ‘tuphloo’ and ‘poroo’.

Tuphloo, is from the root word ‘tuph’ meaning ‘to burn, to smoke’, and speaks of the way smoke could be so heavy it would obscure and make it almost impossible to see. It speaks metaphorically of dulling of the intellect, making it difficult or impossible to discern. It is found in John 12:40, II Corinthians 4:4, I John 2:11, Romans 2:19, II Peter 1:9, and Rev. 3:17. In Acts 13:11, it speaks of physical blindness.

Poroo, is from the root word ‘poros’, meaning ‘a thick skin,’ or ‘a hardening’. It is sometimes translated ‘hardening’. It is like the scales of hard matter that can cover the eye area, and make it impossible to see. (See Romans 11:7, II Corinthians 3:14, Romans 11:25, Ephesians 4:18, Mark 3:5)

There is much blindness in Christianity today, as in all ages. In this age, it is especially prevalent, for the devil knows that his time is very limited, and he seeks to deceive even the elect, if he can.

The ‘smoke’ of sin in this world has blinded many in the church from the things they should be seeing. They are blinded because the truth is obscure, and impossible to see, due to the ‘smoke’ of the sinful world in which we live.

The ‘hardening’ of scales on the eyes of many in the church makes what the Lord wants them to see, impossible to be seen. They are blind. Paul faced that kind of blindness in the church in Ephesus then, we see it far too much in the church of this day.



EFFECTS OF THE SICKNESS OF BLINDNESS

Spiritual blindness is prevalent, and it has further repercussions. It leads to further sin, further alienation from God. Blindness may have led to W V making a wrong decision... should they have known the Word of God's condemnation of homosexuality better??? yes... but should preachers have been more explanatory in their preaching to proclaim truth?? yes... so... Who is to blame??? or both??

Paul showed in Ephesians that we are to ‘walk not as others’ do, and are not to have a mind filled with ‘vanity’. If we do, this ‘darkened’ life, alienates us from God. The blindness takes one ‘past feeling’ due to a life of ‘lasciviousness, uncleanness, and greed’. Paul preached it strong... today, some are soft pedaling, watering down, ignoring certain Bible teachings... and so... some blindness is due to the smoky incorrect, incomplete preaching...


Read the passage again:
Ephesians 4:17-19
“...walk not as other gentiles walk, in the vanity of mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart... who being past feeling, have given themselves over unto lasciviousness to work all uncleanness with greediness.”

The ‘vanity of mind’ means that thoughts are totally worthless. They do not have thoughts that are productive to their spirit, they do not accomplish any spiritual good with their minds.

The ‘understanding is darkened’ making it like being in a dark room, and what is apparent, if the lights had been on, is totally missed due to the darkness of their minds.

They also are said to be ‘alienated from the life of God.’ This means that they the blindness means separation, alienation, estrangement from God. God is light, and in Him is no darkness, so if some walk in darkness, cannot see, then, God is not walking with them, and the life and strength, the wisdom and discernment, that would come with a walking with God is absent from those who are spiritually blind.

The passage above also speaks of the ‘ignorance’ that is ‘in them’. There is a worldly knowledge, that some brag upon, with degrees, and doctorates, and proof of much study. Yet, if one is spiritually blind, they are void of real knowledge of the eternal, and they are ‘ignorant’ despite the degrees and titles. Lack of truthful preaching is a cause of much ignorance, that leads to blindness... So, blame WV if you want, but remember to blame the incomplete preaching of some in our day too.


The passage mentions, that spiritually blind people, also have ‘given themselves over unto ‘lasciviousness’. Lasciviousness is not always a thing that is sin of itself, but it is the deed that makes one weaker, and leads to sin.

World Visions error was a sin of lasciviousness, at least... So to purposely do things that make one too weak to avoid sins, is lasciviousness. The spiritually blind do not realize that this deed or action, may not be sin, but if they do it, their weakness being increased by such, is going to lead them into things that are definitely sinful. Therefore, willful lasciviousness is sinful. The spiritually blind, not seeing the danger in the path, travel it and then wonder how they were so weak they sinned.


Matthew 15:14 (also see Luke 6:39)
“Let them alone, they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall in the ditch.’

Those that are spiritually blind, are so unaware of their ‘darkness’, that often they try to be leaders of others. They lead one another to more and more stumbling blocks, to more and more ditches into which they both fall. The spiritually blind do not seek help to discover truth and sight, but they lead others to places of falsehoods, heresies, and false doctrines.

If preachers do not preach about homosexuality being sinful, some will be spiritually blind to the fact... if some preachers actually preach it falsely to be a 'non sin', they are causing in others a blindness to its true nature.

Fear, laziness of preaching is a cause for ignorance... Some are afraid to call sin to be sin, less they lose their head like John the Baptist...

Romans 11:7-11
“Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the elect hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded... God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see.’

When one is spiritually blind, the spirits can obsess them with an apathy, a spiritual drowsiness, a sleeping of mind. Therefore, they do not see spiritual truths, they do not see dangers ahead, they do not even know where they are headed.


II Corinthians 3:14
“But their minds were blinded, for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament, which veil, is done away in Christ.’

This veil of darkness is blinding many, and only Jesus can take away this blindness. It has a tendency to remain, and remain. Those spiritually blind do not seek sight easily, they become content in blindness, are unaware of the need of sight, for they think that their darkness is light.

So, who do we blame for 'spiritual blindness' concerning homosexuality?? The preachers?? the blind ones being deceived? or both?

 

[JimB]

So what constitutes a “Christian” (God-joined) wedding anyhow? Does a legal marriage license (which varies from state to state, country to country) make a marriage God-joined? Is a civil ceremony with an nonbelieving justice of the peace a God-joined marriage? What about two teenagers who marry in the heat of the moment just so they can have sex? How about two people who elope against their patents’ wishes? Is a marriage legal in Louisiana but illegal in Texas? Are two people God-joined if they were originally married as unbelievers? Can a common law marriage be a God-joined marriage? There’s a lot more to be God-joined than a certificate.