- Dec 26, 2007
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And? Are you meaning to tell me that God made Satan rebel?
Are you suggesting that God makes man sin?
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]for the day of evil" (Proverbs 16:4)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Acts 4:27-28 ~ Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against Your holy[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]servant Jesus, whom You anointed. They did what Your power and will[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]had decided[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] beforehand should happen.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Even if one where to surgically remove those passages (and many others like[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]for the day of evil" (Proverbs 16:4)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Acts 4:27-28 ~ Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against Your holy[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]servant Jesus, whom You anointed. They did what Your power and will[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]had decided[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] beforehand should happen.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]them) from one's bible, or rationalize them away, the question remains as to why[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]would anyone then try to tell me that God didn't, at the very least, know in[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]advance that Satan (and others) would rebel?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Are you suggesting that an omniscient God is being faced with unintended[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]consequences, here? Did He get Himself in over His head or something? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So why all the fuss?[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Genesis 1:31
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Why would God, who can see the end from the beginning mind you, claim[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]something is “good” if He already thought that things He would consider not-so-[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]good would sooner or later come if it? Are you saying He lied when He made that[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]statement, or that He didn't know what He was getting Himself into? I sure don't[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]believe that, do you?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Oh wow … really? Do I really need to connect the dots, here? [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What does His full knowledge have to do with sins you and I willfully commit?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Who was it who created things in such a way that we'd even be *discussing* sin[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]When you choose to sin, can you refrain yourself at any point?
If you were in the process of sinning but a cop entered the scene, would you still commit that sin?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]right now?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So since God is capable of restraining sin, why doesn't this happen on a regular[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If anything, God restrains man from sinning and this is evident all throughout the bible (See the story of Jacob when he ran away from Rachel's father)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]basis if He's as uptight about it as many make Him out to be?[/FONT]
Restraining sin would be an act of commission on His part, so by
*refraining from* restraining sin, i.e., *allowing* it to occur, that's an
act of omission on His part. So He's still ultimately responsible for how
both scenarios unfold. To put it in driving terms, it's the same Foot
controlling both the brake *and* the accelerator.
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So what you seem to be saying, here, is that God didn't see it coming.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Ephesians 7:29
See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.
What you're saying contradicts scripture.
You are responsible for the sins you commit.
On judgment day, men and women will be judged according to every thought, word and deed. Everything in darkness will come to light. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If a fallible human is responsible for what *he* does, then don't you think that a[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Perfect, All Powerful, All-Knowing God would be responsible for what *He* does? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]To insist that humans can handle this kind of responsibility but God can't – or[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]shouldn't have to – is not only a double-standard, but places God below man in[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]basic competence. Not exactly the most God-glorifying stance to take, if you ask me.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Probably because the salvation I received in Christ Jesus is what opened my eyes[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]One thing I don't understand is why you would take this stance when the solution, Salvation is in Jesus Christ? We deserve hell, but God sent his son to reconcile us to himself. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]to all this. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Probably because salvation isn't actually from “hell” (at least, in the Dante's[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Inferno sense of the term) but from this idea that God made worthless garbage in[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]need of rescuing from the local trash-heap. It's in this respect that Christianity[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]needs a serious overhaul, imo. [/FONT] A good starting point might be to
remove hell from where it really resides, which would be right between
one's own two ears.
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What I don't understand is why people don't trace all this back to the Source. And[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]these are Creationists, too (I would assume), who would, as such, agree that[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nothing exists except through the Creator God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But no, if it's not specifically a debate about Intelligent-Design vs. the Big-Bang[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]theory, all of a sudden the buck stops just shy of an Intelligent Designer out of[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]this apparent fear of what it might reveal. It's like they're trying to get God off[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the hook by pretending He *didn't* create all this, not realizing that one can[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]credit this world, warts and all, to Him without blaming Him for it. There's no[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]blame to be had – He's perfect, and what He made is, indeed, Good![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]And it would appear that you fail to see that the world as we know it was created[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You fail to understand the severity of Sin and God's view of Sin and as a result, think it is unjust for a holy and righteous God to send repeat offenders, criminals where they belong for eternity. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]by God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Are you sure you believe that God created the world? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You claim He's holy and righteous, and I agree 100%, but then you turn around and claim[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]that His own creation deserves hell for being what He made them to be. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What’s with that? Why would a holy and righteous Deity create
anything deserving of hell?
PS: If the mods want to move this to the Unorthodox Discussion
area, that's totally understandable. That's probably where this should
be filed, anyway.
[/FONT]
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