My Pumice Challenge

Status
Not open for further replies.

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Just for the sake of argument, let's just suppose that God really did create the Earth only 6,000 years ago.

Then, in spite of the fact that it is only 6,000 years old, everywhere you look there is evidence that it is much much older.

So what did God think he was up to in planting all that false evidence? Was he deliberately trying to deceive us, and, if so, why?

God also kills children, so I don't see why god can't be deceptive. Killing kids is a lot worse then lying, in my opinion.
Thanks for the QEDs.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,628
12,068
✟230,461.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for the QEDs.


Whoa!

That sounds a bit blasphemous for even AV. It seems you are advocating for a god that lies and kills innocents.

Of course that is the problem with literalists. Pushed to the limit they have no real morals.
 
Upvote 0

quatona

"God"? What do you mean??
May 15, 2005
37,512
4,301
✟175,292.00
Faith
Seeker
Most "educated" people here will conclude that a literal Genesis 1 would constitute deception on God's part.
Personally, hearing that God is most concerned with us getting things right, and seeing that God - being omnipotent and all - could have created stuff so that it would look as old as it is, it´s more like I am wondering why he wouldn´t have done it that way.

Even though He put what He did in Writing.
Because action and facts speak louder than words?
 
Upvote 0

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,652
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟104,175.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Why would a recently created, mature sun have to have next to no helium? If it has helium, it is there for a reason. It regulates the heat and stability of a star. Less helium = colder sun. More helium = hotter sun.

I suppose it goes without saying that you got that nonsense from a creationist website. The helium is there for a reason - the reason being that the sun is busy fusing hydrogen into helium. That is why it shines.


Does 24% helium qualify as "next to no helium"?
I said it would contain next to no helium if it was only six thousand years old. The above mentioned fusion reaction would only have been going for around 6,000 years, and that doesn't even begin to be enough time for the sun to be around one quarter helium. Depending upon what you mean by "create" in this context, the collapsing cloud of hydrogen gas might not even have ignited as yet.

You could define the birth of the sun as being the moment at which it ignited. In that case it would have been shining for 6,000 years. Still not enough time for anything except a tiny amount of the Sun's hydrogen fuel to have been fused into helium.


As an aside, looking at the sun billions of years into it's past makes the sun colder and of course the earth colder. Frozen solid to be exact, where the sun needs to be 25% BRIGHTER THAN IT IS TODAY just to thaw the earth out. So you have run into the Faint Young Sun problem again.
More nonsense. In the past the Earth's atmosphere contained large amounts of the green house gas, methane. That more than offset the sun's lower temperature and made the Earth very much hotter than it is today.

Creationist websites are exceedingly picky about the amount of information they make available to their clients. I can't imagine why - but atheists are right about one thing: Lying for Jesus is not a good idea.

One thing creationists have never explained to me is: Why should Christian astronomers, like Owen Gingerich, be engaged in this grand conspiracy against Christianity? Maybe you could explain?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AirPo

with a Touch of Grey
Oct 31, 2003
26,359
7,214
60
✟169,357.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Most "educated" people here will conclude that a literal Genesis 1 would constitute deception on God's part.

Even though He put what He did in Writing.
No, most "educated" people here will conclude that your interpretation of Genesis 1 would constitute deception on God's part.
 
Upvote 0

Delphiki

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2010
4,342
161
Ohio
✟5,675.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Supposedly or not, He gets accused of deception.


The deceptive God is according to your so-called embedded age model.

Every which way you look at the universe, it's 13.5 billion year old, but according to you, God created it far more recently with the age embedded. To make something not appear the way it truly is is deception.

You are accusing your own god of being deceptive, whether you realize it or are willing to admit it or not.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Most "educated" people here will conclude that a literal Genesis 1 would constitute deception on God's part.

Even though He put what He did in Writing.

No, most "educated" people here will conclude that your interpretation of Genesis 1 would constitute deception on God's part.
You have a non-deceptive literal interpretation, do you?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Chany

Uncertain Absurdist
Nov 29, 2011
6,428
228
In bed
✟15,379.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Can God create pumice ex nihilo tomorrow without deception?

That depends upon how it is presented.

If God's like, "I'm making pumice out of nothing and it'll be on your table tomorrow when you wake up", then no.

If God creates the pumice and puts it into a natural place for pumice, making it appear that the pumice wasn't made out of nothing, then yes.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

EternalDragon

Counselor
Jul 31, 2013
5,757
26
✟21,267.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
I suppose it goes without saying that you got that nonsense from a creationist website. The helium is there for a reason - the reason being that the sun is busy fusing hydrogen into helium. That is why it shines.


I said it would contain next to no helium if it was only six thousand years old. The above mentioned fusion reaction would only have been going for around 6,000 years, and that doesn't even begin to be enough time for the sun to be around one quarter helium. Depending upon what you mean by "create" in this context, the collapsing cloud of hydrogen gas might not even have ignited as yet.

The only place I looked at was information about the sun from scientists. I do not frequent creationist web sites.

Since we can't really measure the helium, how can you say with certainty what levels of helium are there? You do realize the 28% is an ASSUMPTION? (I do agree with the figure by the way.)

Regardless, God would have to have created the sun with helium already there so that it had the required brightness to sustain life. That is not deceptive nor a mystery as it is clearly explained in Genesis. Also, we do not know all the details about how he created the sun. He could have sped up the processes x10. He built Adam from the ground up in an instant.....no need to wait months for eyes and limbs to form.

Genesis 1:16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.