Democrats Run Away From Obamacare

[Jeffwhosoever]

It isn't true that Democrats had "free reign to do whatever they wanted." If so, a public option would still be on the table.

The reason democrats went with the Heritage Foundation plan was to compromise with republicans. Who knew the GOP would abandon the idea they once supported just because democrats now supported it?

-- A2SG, weird, huh?

IF that were true, those Democrats were pretty dumb all the way around.

 

[A2SG]

IF that were true, those Democrats were pretty dumb all the way around.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: just goes to show what happens when you start listening to conservative ideas!

-- A2SG, BIG mistake there....!

 

[MachZer0]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: just goes to show what happens when you start listening to conservative ideas!

-- A2SG, BIG mistake there....!

Despite you're misrepresentation of the Heritage proposal, we've at least ot the agreement that Obamacare is a big mistake. Welcome aboard

 

[A2SG]

Despite you're misrepresentation of the Heritage proposal,

What have I misrepresented? The fact that the Heritage Foundation is a conservative think-tank? That's well documented, by the Heritage Foundation itself:

The Heritage Foundation is a research and educational institution—a think tank—whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies...​

​

Or the proposal itself, which I have quoted directly from?

Where's the misrepresentation?

we've at least ot the agreement that Obamacare is a big mistake. Welcome aboard

I've always said so. In fact, I said so before you guys did, back when Mitt Romney instituted it here in Massachusetts back in 2006.

Though, to be fair, he at least offered a public option, something the GOP and conservative democrats shot down from earlier Democratic proposals.

I have always favored single payer, and I've not been shy about saying so.

-- A2SG, what do you favor as an alternative to the ACA, other than nothing whatsoever...or tax breaks, much the same thing.....

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

"HOLLYWOOD, Fla. — The hunt for the uninsured in Broward County got underway one recent afternoon when 41 canvassers, armed with electronic maps on Samsung tablets, set off through working-class neighborhoods to peddle the Affordable Care Act door to door. Four hours later, they had made contact with 2,623 residents and signed up exactly 25 people.

Many of their targets, people identified on sophisticated computer lists generated in Washington as unlikely to have health insurance, had moved away. Some were not home. Many said they already had insurance through Medicare, their parents or a job. A few were hostile at the mere mention of President Obama’s health care law.

“We’re going to repeal that,” one man said gruffly as he shut the door in the face of a canvasser, Nancy Morwin, 58, a retired social worker."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/us/proven-models-break-down-in-search-for-the-uninsured.html?_r=0

 

[A2SG]

"HOLLYWOOD, Fla. — The hunt for the uninsured in Broward County got underway one recent afternoon when 41 canvassers, armed with electronic maps on Samsung tablets, set off through working-class neighborhoods to peddle the Affordable Care Act door to door. Four hours later, they had made contact with 2,623 residents and signed up exactly 25 people.

Many of their targets, people identified on sophisticated computer lists generated in Washington as unlikely to have health insurance, had moved away. Some were not home. Many said they already had insurance through Medicare, their parents or a job. A few were hostile at the mere mention of President Obama’s health care law.

“We’re going to repeal that,” one man said gruffly as he shut the door in the face of a canvasser, Nancy Morwin, 58, a retired social worker."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/us/proven-models-break-down-in-search-for-the-uninsured.html?_r=0

Not sure what your point is here. Most people they talked to seem to have health insurance of some kind already, and the few they saw who didn't now do. What's wrong with that?

-- A2SG, and they found a "few" people are hostile toward President Obama in a generally right-leaning state? Hardly a shocker there....

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Not sure what your point is here. Most people they talked to seem to have health insurance of some kind already, and the few they saw who didn't now do. What's wrong with that?

-- A2SG, and they found a "few" people are hostile toward President Obama in a generally right-leaning state? Hardly a shocker there....

They voted for Obama so I wouldn't say they are "generally right leaning". The point is the pervasive unpopularity of the ACA that has been so since the day it passed and was signed into law. And it is just as unpopular today.

 

[A2SG]

They voted for Obama so I wouldn't say they are "generally right leaning".

And they voted for Bush twice. Further, in the last 10 elections, went republican 6 times as opposed to democratic 4. Also, the last three governors and both current senators are republicans.

I'd say generally right-leaning about covers it.

The point is the pervasive unpopularity of the ACA that has been so since the day it passed and was signed into law. And it is just as unpopular today.

Your story didn't make that case. Only a "few" registered disapproval, while most of those asked seemed to have health insurance, and 25 people who didn't signed up.

Doesn't sound like "pervasive unpopularity" to me.

I'm just saying, if all you're doing is trying to trumpet how much you dislike the ACA, fine. But you'll need better news stories to make your case, because this one doesn't.

-- A2SG, one grumbled offhand comment notwithstanding....

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Who says I'm arguing or trying to make a case? Or are you going to argue with me on my own intent? But it does fit within the topic of the thread, of Democrats running from a pervasively unpopular health care program. You've been arguing with Ken too much, I think.

 

[A2SG]

Who says I'm arguing or trying to make a case? Or are you going to argue with me on my own intent?

Just going by what you said the "point" was.

But it does fit within the topic of the thread, of Democrats running from a pervasively unpopular health care program.

How does it fit when no one in that story is running from it in any way? Heck, they signed 25 people up!

You've been arguing with Ken too much, I think.

You might be right about that.

-- A2SG, still, if you're trying to make an anti-obamacare post, this story didn't even come close....

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Just going by what you said the "point" was.



How does it fit when no one in that story is running from it in any way? Heck, they signed 25 people up!



You might be right about that.

-- A2SG, still, if you're trying to make an anti-obamacare post, this story didn't even come close....

Well, you are free to have your opinion and I am free to have mine. Seeing this story run by the New York Times from a state that was pivotal to Obama's re-election I think made a fine anti-Obamacare story. If you want, I can give you the link to the RealClearPolitics poll of the ACA if you need convincing of its unpopularity (and why Democrats are in fact RUNNING from it).

 

[A2SG]

Well, you are free to have your opinion and I am free to have mine. Seeing this story run by the New York Times from a state that was pivotal to Obama's re-election I think made a fine anti-Obamacare story. If you want, I can give you the link to the RealClearPolitics poll of the ACA if you need convincing of its unpopularity (and why Democrats are in fact RUNNING from it).

I'm not debating the premise, just your choice of articles to illustrate it. That one didn't.

-- A2SG, you know how I feel about the ACA and it's conservative market-based approach to health care reform....

 

[TheGuide]

They voted for Obama so I wouldn't say they are "generally right leaning". The point is the pervasive unpopularity of the ACA that has been so since the day it passed and was signed into law. And it is just as unpopular today.

I really don't find you credible. The health care low started in the President's first term. So if these people were so against the law AND Obama, why would they vote for him again? People who haven't had insurance for years are glad, me included. I just received my insurance card and I'm going to the doctor next month when it kicks (March 1). People who want to repeal it have insurance.

Yes, we always had access to insurance, but $900+ a month on a contract job salary, such access was and is crazy.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I really don't find you credible. The health care low started in the President's first term. So if these people were so against the law AND Obama, why would they vote for him again? People who haven't had insurance for years are glad, me included. I just received my insurance card and I'm going to the doctor next month when it kicks (March 1). People who want to repeal it have insurance.

Yes, we always had access to insurance, but $900+ a month on a contract job salary, such access was and is crazy.

access is access and not to mention who chooses to seek treatment or not.? That is a CHOICE.

 

[TheGuide]

access is access and not to mention who chooses to seek treatment or not.? That is a CHOICE.

Perhaps you can explain your point?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Perhaps you can explain your point?

If you did not want to pay for treatment and you were an adult you did not have to seek treatment, but it WAS there Going bankrupt was an option as was prison you STILL have those same options no one makes you seek treatment just because it's there at a" cheap" rate note the quotes. I may be young, but I have my OWN life-time health problems and I oppose this bill and would LOVE to see it repealed. I also think that they should only give you until you are 24 on your parents' insurance. If they cannot claim you on their taxes it should be all or nothing. I am 22.5 I understand that leaves me with just under 1.5 years left on my father's insurance and still would vote for that to pass.

 

[Skaloop]

If you did not want to pay for treatment and you were an adult you did not have to seek treatment, but it WAS there Going bankrupt was an option as was prison you STILL have those same options no one makes you seek treatment just because it's there at a" cheap" rate note the quotes. I may be young, but I have my OWN life-time health problems and I oppose this bill and would LOVE to see it repealed. I also think that they should only give you until you are 24 on your parents' insurance. If they cannot claim you on their taxes it should be all or nothing. I am 22.5 I understand that leaves me with just under 1.5 years left on my father's insurance and still would vote for that to pass.

Going bankrupt and going to prison are technically options, but they shouldn't have to be. And they're definitely not better options than providing health care for all.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Going bankrupt and going to prison are technically options, but they shouldn't have to be. And they're definitely not better options than providing health care for all.

I always say think of prison this way What do you HAVE to provide in prison you are fed clothed given shelter many times even TV education a job. You are there with NO responsibles whatsoever. People do not take that into account when they have those programs to keep kids out.

 

[A2SG]

I always say think of prison this way What do you HAVE to provide in prison you are fed clothed given shelter many times even TV education a job. You are there with NO responsibles whatsoever. People do not take that into account when they have those programs to keep kids out.

Boy, does this argument sound familiar!

"At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."​

-- A2SG, still, it's a Dickens of an argument....

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Going bankrupt and going to prison are technically options, but they shouldn't have to be. And they're definitely not better options than providing health care for all.

Funny, I came across this article a while back.

"Canadians Leave Their Country For Better Health Care"

""One of the unfortunate realities of Canada's monopolistic health care system is that some people feel they have no choice but to seek the care they need outside the country," Esmail and Bacchus Barua wrote in an op-ed published last month in a couple of Canadian newspapers. "And who can blame them?"

Canadians Leave Their Country And Find Better Health Care Abroad - Investors.com