Acts 16:14

shturt678s

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A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. (Acts 16:14 NASB)

Why was it necessary for Jesus to open her heart?

Exactly, because the Kingdom of God was already bestowed upon her, and all that was needed was for her to acquire the Kingdom of God. :amen:

Not intended to 'bug' you, however I think my office has been 'bugged,' seriously, ie, anybody have a 'bug' detector? :idea:

What was wrong with her in the first place?

Absolutely nothing! She had the right kind of 'hearing,' however prior to worshipping in the Synagogue on the Sabbath, previous to her excellent 'hearing,' her intellect, heart, and will of the natural woman all aptness, skill, capactiy, and ability to think, to understand, to work or concur in working anything good and right in spiritual things, including salvation itself. She like everybody else had an "enslaved-will," ie, no "free-will" for sure in response the next posit.

Did she not have the free will to choose prior to that?

Just in case anyone wants to actually address the OP.

Somebody said "When the solution is simple, God is answering," btw I'm the antithesis of God,

Old wretch Jack looking for answers in all the right places ;)
 
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Jack Terrence

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Glad you brought up "veiled". 2 Cor 3:16 - but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Please don't ignore the sequence here, as do the RTs.

Lydia had "turned to the Lord" by her worship. And God removed the veil. Very simple and straightforward.
As Ronald Reagan once said, "There ya go again." You're taking scripture out of context...again.

Paul said that it is only in Christ that the veil taken is away (verse 14). So He was NOT talking about non-Christians. Paul was speaking to Christians. The issue Paul was addressing was their reliance on the letter of the law. Beginning with verse 4 Paul was trying to move them from the observance of letter to service in the spirit.

It is CHRISTIANS who when they turn (rely) on the Lord that the veil is taken away and they can walk in liberty.


Btw, this next point may be off topic but I cannot resist.

If you look at the narrative regarding Lydia it says that she invited the apostles to her house if they judged her faithful to the Lord, that is, if they counted her a true believer (vs. 15).

There's that apostolic authority popping up again I was telling you about, which you don't like. The apostles knew who would believe and who was and was not a true believer. As it was conferred upon Christ to know those things, so it was conferred upon the apostles by Christ to know those things.

It looks like the little lady who sold purple linen had a higher view of apostolic authority than you.
 
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OzSpen

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Heck, I'm still trying to find out why it's even necessary.

I always figure when the regular non-Calvinists avoid a thread, it must have hit a nerve.
I find it amazing that you have come to this view that 'it must have hit a nerve'. What do you do?

You started the thread this way:
Acts 16:14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. (Acts 16:14 NASB)

Why was it necessary for Jesus to open her heart? What was wrong with her in the first place? Did she not have the free will to choose prior to that?
The 'nerve' for me is this: I know your Calvinistic agenda when you started this thread, that you've pushed on CF over and over. You seem to want to try to disprove Arminianism. I contemplated not responding to you as your imbalanced view is not what the Bible teaches in its totality.

How do I know of this imbalance?

The very chapter of the Bible that you use, Acts 16, provides the balance (not the contradiction) to Acts 16:14. The Lord opened Lydia's heart to respond to what Paul preached. But what is stated in Acts 16:31? It is a command for human beings to believe:
And they said, “[You] Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
The Lord opens the heart but he does not do it without the person believing.

Lutheran commentator, R C H Lenski, explains this balanced view in his exegesis and exposition of Acts 16:14:
We must combine the two duratives 'she kept hearing' and 'to be heeding,' for they imply that Lydia was not converted on that very first Sabbath. From the beginning, however, she heard with a heart that was opened wide (dia in the verb) by the Lord. Little did she dream that Saturday morning what a treasure she was to find in the little retreat by the riverside; but she heard the great Apostle of the Gentiles himself set forth the blessed gospel of Jesus Christ with all fervor and all conviction, and this gospel was corroborated by this three companions. She was finding the pearl of great price.

The Lord opens the heart, but the hand with which he lifts the latch and draws the door is the Word which he makes us hear, and the door opens as we heed, prosechein, keep holding your mind to what you hear. No man can open the door of his heart (kardia is the center of thought and will) himself, nor can he help the Lord to open it by himself lifting the latch and moving the door. The one thing he can do is to bolt the door, i.e., refuse to hear and to heed; and thus he can keep the door closed and bar it even more effectually than it was at first. This prevents conversion (Lenski 1934:658).
So the biblical evidence from Acts 16 (not just v. 14) is that it is the Lord who opens the Lord but human beings believe (and refuse to believe). This has been God's approach from the OT into the NT and today:
Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live' (Deut 30:19)
and,
Choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord (Josh 24:15).
So I'm not restricted to pushing a one-sided agenda when the Bible gives both sides in Acts 16.

It has nothing to do with 'it must have hit a nerve'. It has everything to do with being holistic in biblical presentation.

In Christ,
Oz

Works consulted
Lenski, R C H 1934. Commentary on the New Testament: The interpretation of the Acts of the Apostles. Peabody, Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers (based on Lutheran Book Concern 1934; The wartburg Press 1944; Augsburg Publishing House 1961).
 
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OzSpen

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A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. (Acts 16:14 NASB)

Why was it necessary for Jesus to open her heart? What was wrong with her in the first place? Did she not have the free will to choose prior to that?

Just in case anyone wants to actually address the OP.
I hope I've answered most of that at #103, but I will clarify.

Why was it necessary for the Lord to open Lydia's heart? There is no salvation outside of the Lord's working in us.

What was wrong with her? She was a sinner who needed justification, reconciliation and all that salvation can provide. She needed the application of Christ's shed blood and resurrection.

As I've tried to demonstrate in #103, salvation is of the Lord but God demonstrates in Acts 16:31 that human beings need to respond by believing. Why? Because human beings can resist such offers of salvation.

We know from the very first sin in the Garden (Genesis 2-3) that God did not take away human beings' free will to hear God and obey or disobey his instructions (Gen 3:2:9, 17; 3:5-13).

In Christ,
Oz
 
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Hammster

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I find it amazing that you have come to this view that 'it must have hit a nerve'. What do you do?

You started the thread this way:

The 'nerve' for me is this: I know your Calvinistic agenda when you started this thread, that you've pushed on CF over and over. You seem to want to try to disprove Arminianism. I contemplated not responding to you as your imbalanced view is not what the Bible teaches in its totality.

How do I know of this imbalance?

The very chapter of the Bible that you use, Acts 16, provides the balance (not the contradiction) to Acts 16:14. The Lord opened Lydia's heart to respond to what Paul preached. But what is stated in Acts 16:31? It is a command for human beings to believe:

The Lord opens the heart but he does not do it without the person believing.

Lutheran commentator, R C H Lenski, explains this balanced view in his exegesis and exposition of Acts 16:14:

So the biblical evidence from Acts 16 (not just v. 14) is that it is the Lord who opens the Lord but human beings believe (and refuse to believe). This has been God's approach from the OT into the NT and today:

and,

So I'm not restricted to pushing a one-sided agenda when the Bible gives both sides in Acts 16.

It has nothing to do with 'it must have hit a nerve'. It has everything to do with being holistic in biblical presentation.

In Christ,
Oz

Works consulted
Lenski, R C H 1934. Commentary on the New Testament: The interpretation of the Acts of the Apostles. Peabody, Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers (based on Lutheran Book Concern 1934; The wartburg Press 1944; Augsburg Publishing House 1961).

If you aren't going to address the OP, I'm not sure why you even posted. Seems like a waste of time.
 
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AndOne

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The Lord opens the heart but he does not do it without the person believing.

Good evening, Oz

Is the quote above what you meant to write? That's what most of us Calvinists believe. I would say it falls under the head of doctrine: irresistible grace.
 
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Hammster

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I hope I've answered most of that at #103, but I will clarify.

Why was it necessary for the Lord to open Lydia's heart? There is no salvation outside of the Lord's working in us.

What was wrong with her? She was a sinner who needed justification, reconciliation and all that salvation can provide. She needed the application of Christ's shed blood and resurrection.

As I've tried to demonstrate in #103, salvation is of the Lord but God demonstrates in Acts 16:31 that human beings need to respond by believing. Why? Because human beings can resist such offers of salvation.

We know from the very first sin in the Garden (Genesis 2-3) that God did not take away human beings' free will to hear God and obey or disobey his instructions (Gen 3:2:9, 17; 3:5-13).

In Christ,
Oz

So until the Lord opened her heart, there was no way she could respond positively to the gospel?
 
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AndOne

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I hope I've answered most of that at #103, but I will clarify.

Why was it necessary for the Lord to open Lydia's heart? There is no salvation outside of the Lord's working in us.

What was wrong with her? She was a sinner who needed justification, reconciliation and all that salvation can provide. She needed the application of Christ's shed blood and resurrection.

As I've tried to demonstrate in #103, salvation is of the Lord but God demonstrates in Acts 16:31 that human beings need to respond by believing. Why? Because human beings can resist such offers of salvation.

We know from the very first sin in the Garden (Genesis 2-3) that God did not take away human beings' free will to hear God and obey or disobey his instructions (Gen 3:2:9, 17; 3:5-13).

In Christ,
Oz
The way I read it is that The Lord opened her heart in order for her to be able to believe - and that His opening her heart was effectual (and always is).
 
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OzSpen

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If you aren't going to address the OP, I'm not sure why you even posted. Seems like a waste of time.
Ah, exactly what I expected. I addressed the post and you didn't like what I wrote so you give me this red herring.

When will you wake up to the fact that this kind of response is what drives people away from pursuing the Calvinism that you want to define on CF. I provided evidence to refute your view; you didn't like it so you make it look like I didn't address the post. I addressed the post directly and came to a conclusion different to yours.

If you give me another red herring, I will choose not to reply to you. When you engage in the use of a logical fallacy, it prevents a logical discussion.

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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The way I read it is that The Lord opened her heart in order for her to be able to believe - and that His opening her heart was effectual (and always is).
So why does God discriminate and not open the heart of all human beings since he is the God of justice?

Deut 32:3-4 states:
For I will proclaim the name of the Lord;
ascribe greatness to our God!
4 “The Rock, his work is perfect,
for all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness and without iniquity,
just and upright is he (ESV).
Could it be that our understanding of the justice of God is incorrect and that our interpretations of election/predestination are skewed?
 
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Jack Terrence

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As I've tried to demonstrate in #103, salvation is of the Lord but God demonstrates in Acts 16:31 that human beings need to respond by believing. Why? Because human beings can resist such offers of salvation.
It is God that causes the resonse. That's what the op is all about. God opened Lydia's heart and she responded by listening to the apostles.

We know from the very first sin in the Garden (Genesis 2-3) that God did not take away human beings' free will to hear God and obey or disobey his instructions (Gen 3:2:9, 17; 3:5-13).
Oh no? God banished the man from the garden and set cheribum to guard the tree of life to prevent man from gaining access to it.

Man had no meaningful freedom after the fall.
 
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OzSpen

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So until the Lord opened her heart, there was no way she could respond positively to the gospel?
So until Lydia did not shut the door to her heart (that God had opened) and chose to believe in Jesus, there was no way she could respond positively to the Gospel?
 
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Hammster

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Ah, exactly what I expected. I addressed the post and you didn't like what I wrote so you give me this red herring.

When will you wake up to the fact that this kind of response is what drives people away from pursuing the Calvinism that you want to define on CF. I provided evidence to refute your view; you didn't like it so you make it look like I didn't address the post. I addressed the post directly and came to a conclusion different to yours.

If you give me another red herring, I will choose not to reply to you. When you engage in the use of a logical fallacy, it prevents a logical discussion.

Oz

Your post did not address the questions in the OP. Please stop with the bullying.
 
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Hammster

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So until Lydia did not shut the door to her heart (that God had opened) and chose to believe in Jesus, there was no way she could respond positively to the Gospel?

Why did you avoid answering my question? You aren't obligated to do so, but this dodging gets us nowhere.
 
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OzSpen

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It is God that causes the resonse. That's what the op is all about. God opened Lydia's heart and she responded by listening to the apostles.

Oh no? God banished the man from the garden and set cheribum to guard the tree of life to prevent man from gaining access to it.

Man had no meaningful freedom after the fall.
This is what happens with a one-eyed view of salvation. I showed you from Acts 16 that there is a demonstration of God opening Lydia's heart for salvation to take place. Then human beings are commanded to believe in the Lord Jesus. God opens the heart's door but there will be on entrance into salvation without the person walking through - it's called 'believe' on the Lord Jesus.

No meaningful freedom, huh??? 'Choose this day whom you will serve' (Josh 24:15). That's God speaking through Joshua.

We are not on the same page and I don't expect we will get to that page.
 
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OzSpen

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Why did you avoid answering my question? You aren't obligated to do so, but this dodging gets us nowhere.
I addressed your post directly. This is a false accusation. False accusations are called straw man fallacies. And we cannot have a logical discussion when you do this.

I find that you are harassing me and this is against the rules of this forum.
 
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Hammster

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I addressed your post directly. This is a false accusation. False accusations are called straw man fallacies. And we cannot have a logical discussion when you do this.

I find that you are harassing me and this is against the rules of this forum.

You addressed my post. You didn't answer my question. Again, you don't have to. But please do not pretend that you have.
 
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OzSpen

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You addressed my post. You didn't answer my question. Again, you don't have to. But please do not pretend that you have.
Please quit your harassment of me (which is against the rules of CF). In my country we call it bullying.
 
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Who said?

'Choose this day whom you will serve' (Josh 25:14). And that is not meaningful freedom???

Then why did Lydia need her heart opened?
 
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