Gentiles in the Messianic Movement Article

[Messianic Jewboy]

This is an article based on a non Jewish view.

Gentiles in the Messianic Movement | International Messianic Jewish Alliance

 

[annier]

This is an article based on a non Jewish view.

Gentiles in the Messianic Movement | International Messianic Jewish Alliance

From your link....
Begin quote
"Gentile participants in the Messianic congregations fall into several categories that are described as follows:
5. Finally, there are Gentiles who have joined the Messianic movement out of a desire to minister faith in Yeshua as contextually relevant to Jews."
End quote

This would be the group of which I was in...... LOL, I never even heard of ONE LAW, until years later

But let me add to this, as I seen myself as joining Jews in worship of Christ, as their witness to their kinsman in the flesh, I also as Gentile was doing no less for my own kinsman in the flesh. We were both for a testimony.
I thought to aid all Christians to shake off their "Cathoicism".

That is until I began to hear of "one law", and things changed. As a person raised Catholic, and having become protestant, I did see Mj (one law) becoming a rabbinic Catholicism is all.

 

[etZion]

This is an article based on a non Jewish view.

Gentiles in the Messianic Movement | International Messianic Jewish Alliance

I read the article, and nothing new here. The beginning of the article assumes everyone shares the same definitions and never actually clarifies the definitions... we cannot possibly come to the same conclusions, if we have different definitions.

Check out these two groups, in my opinion, they offer a better solution:

UMJA / United Messianic Jewish Assembly - Home

CTOMC - Statement of Faith

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

From your link....
Begin quote
"Gentile participants in the Messianic congregations fall into several categories that are described as follows:
Finally, there are Gentiles who have joined the Messianic movement out of a desire to minister faith in Yeshua as contextually relevant to Jews."
End quote

This would be the group of which I was in...... LOL, I never even heard of ONE LAW, until years later

But let me add to this, as I seen myself as joining Jews in worship of Christ, as their witness to their kinsman in the flesh, I also as Gentile was doing no less for my own kinsman in the flesh. We were both for a testimony.
I thought to aid all Christians to shake off their "Cathoicism".

That is until I began to hear of "one law", and things changed. As a person raised Catholic, and having become protestant, I did see Mj (one law) becoming a rabbinic Catholicism is all.

This is the issue...

Identifying With Israel
The primary role of Gentiles in the Body of the Messiah is to identify with Israel. To identify with Israel is different from identifying as Israel. As Gentiles, our struggle must be to show that we have been brought into a relationship with the God of Abraham without being a replacement of Israel. But there is a danger here. If Gentiles lose our own identity and become copy-cat Jews, or if the differences become hidden, the purpose for the Body to be both Jew and Gentile in one new man will be lost.

But this is interesting. You would think from the above quote non Jews shouldn't keep Torah....

"The role of the Gentile in the body must include an attractiveness in obedience that provokes unbelieving Jews to envy. Therefore, I believe that we can best fulfill this role by Torah observance that is consistent with the Torah commands, but is distinctive with regard to Jews and Gentiles."

"For those who, like myself, have been involved in the Messianic movement because of a desire to see an authentic Messianic Judaism that can be presented to the Jewish community with integrity, there is a need to be informed in the content and observance of Torah, so that Messianic Judaism is encouraged to grow in authentic observance. We also need to maintain our obedience to Torah commands in a manner that is clearly Biblical – but distinct from Jewish – so that we identify"

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

I read the article, and nothing new here. The beginning of the article assumes everyone shares the same definitions and never actually clarifies the definitions... we cannot possibly come to the same conclusions, if we have different definitions.

Check out these two groups, in my opinion, they offer a better solution:

UMJA / United Messianic Jewish Assembly - Home

CTOMC - Statement of Faith

I'd be curious if the CTMOC does Brit Milah for non Jewish parents.

 

[annier]

This is the issue...

Identifying With Israel
The primary role of Gentiles in the Body of the Messiah is to identify with Israel. To identify with Israel is different from identifying as Israel. As Gentiles, our struggle must be to show that we have been brought into a relationship with the God of Abraham without being a replacement of Israel. But there is a danger here. If Gentiles lose our own identity and become copy-cat Jews, or if the differences become hidden, the purpose for the Body to be both Jew and Gentile in one new man will be lost.

But this is interesting. You would think from the above quote non Jews shouldn't keep Torah....

"The role of the Gentile in the body must include an attractiveness in obedience that provokes unbelieving Jews to envy. Therefore, I believe that we can best fulfill this role by Torah observance that is consistent with the Torah commands, but is distinctive with regard to Jews and Gentiles."

"For those who, like myself, have been involved in the Messianic movement because of a desire to see an authentic Messianic Judaism that can be presented to the Jewish community with integrity, there is a need to be informed in the content and observance of Torah, so that Messianic Judaism is encouraged to grow in authentic observance. We also need to maintain our obedience to Torah commands in a manner that is clearly Biblical – but distinct from Jewish – so that we identify"

I have to get work Marc. But this is an excellent thread. I would like to respond later Thank you
In Christ
Annier.

 

[ArtB]

My wife and I are gentiles whom attend a Messianic Jewish Temple, run by Jews, of course. They genuinely perceive Y'Shua (Jesus) as their Messiah, the only begotten God from God, and they acknowledge that Y'shua is the ultimate Passover Lamb of God - whose blood washed away all their sins for all time - past, present, and future, and no further sacrifice of a unblemished Lamb is required for the forgiven of our sins.

Most amazing is their children are quite happy, courteous - except when they pull a prank - all in good humor, obedient to their parents, and caring for each other.

They embrace the Laws of the New Covenant in Jesus Christ, their parents diligently teach them. Most Jewish members choose to eat kosher, not because the OT required it, but because they believe it is a healthy diet, and part of their tradition, just as the Italians choose to eat spaghetti and meatballs with tomato sauce, and Chicken Parmesan Heroes.

I tell you - they are a wonderful people, and I learn more by their insights of the OT and in the Gospel of Y'shua and the NT.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

My wife and I are gentiles whom attend a Messianic Jewish Temple, run by Jews, of course. They genuinely perceive Y'Shua (Jesus) as their Messiah, the only begotten God from God, and they acknowledge that Y'shua is the ultimate Passover Lamb of God - whose blood washed away all their sins for all time - past, present, and future, and no further sacrifice of a unblemished Lamb is required for the forgiven of our sins.

Most amazing is their children are quite happy, courteous - except when they pull a prank - all in good humor, obedient to their parents, and caring for each other.

They embrace the Laws of the New Covenant in Jesus Christ, their parents diligently teach them. Most Jewish members choose to eat kosher, not because the OT required it, but because they believe it is a healthy diet, and part of their tradition, just as the Italians choose to eat spaghetti and meatballs with tomato sauce, and Chicken Parmesan Heroes.

I tell you - they are a wonderful people, and I learn more by their insights of the OT and in the Gospel of Y'shua and the NT.

Praise The Lord!

Are you considered second class or feel you're second class because you're not Jewish although the leadership is Jewish? There has been a lot of discussion about this. It seems you're comfortable in your indentity?

 

[Alithis]

i was a gentile .. then i got born again.
grafted into the vine .. made one with it .

 

[Gxg (G²)]

My wife and I are gentiles whom attend a Messianic Jewish Temple, run by Jews, of course. They genuinely perceive Y'Shua (Jesus) as their Messiah, the only begotten God from God, and they acknowledge that Y'shua is the ultimate Passover Lamb of God - whose blood washed away all their sins for all time - past, present, and future, and no further sacrifice of a unblemished Lamb is required for the forgiven of our sins.

Most amazing is their children are quite happy, courteous - except when they pull a prank - all in good humor, obedient to their parents, and caring for each other.

They embrace the Laws of the New Covenant in Jesus Christ, their parents diligently teach them. Most Jewish members choose to eat kosher, not because the OT required it, but because they believe it is a healthy diet, and part of their tradition, just as the Italians choose to eat spaghetti and meatballs with tomato sauce, and Chicken Parmesan Heroes.

I tell you - they are a wonderful people, and I learn more by their insights of the OT and in the Gospel of Y'shua and the NT.

Awesome to hear

 

[ArtB]

Praise The Lord!

Are you considered second class or feel you're second class because you're not Jewish although the leadership is Jewish? There has been a lot of discussion about this. It seems you're comfortable in your identity?

NO! Why would I feel 2nd class. I am exactly where I want to be, IN GODS' MERCY, THIS Grace I ACCEPTED, given to me through the Blood of the Perfect Lamb of God, Y'shua, IN HIS MERCY, HE ATONED FOR MY SINS - I had a lot of suffering in this life, and FAILURES, and none of it bothers me, for my redeemer lives. This is the GOOD NEWS - Jesus ATONED for all my sins, that I may have eternal life, the life abundant, and a relationship with God, a free gift, no one can earn this FREE GIFT, as Paul wrote, This is the free gift, to all whom accept it, from God

William Shakespeare addressed this 'GOOD NEWS' in the Merchant of Venice, beginning with Act IV Scene 1

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:

'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy. I have spoke thus much
To mitigate the justice of thy plea;
Which if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
Must needs give sentence 'gainst the merchant there.

Many have interpreted the above as simply an anti Jewish rant, but this is not so. Shakespeare is addressing salvation via the Mosaic Law verses The New Laws of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. And as confirmed by Paul: Hebrews 7: 11-25

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.

17 For it is attested of Him,
“You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”


18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21 (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, “The Lord has sworn And will not change His mind, ‘You are a priest forever’”);

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant."

As for me, I am glad God showed great mercy on us and made a way for me to gain eternal life through the blood of Y'shua, a free gift to all who accept the atoning the blood of Y'shua, as a scapegoat, Whom takes away our sins and that includes all Jews, His favored people, when the times of the gentiles to be saved ends, God will receive his most favored people, His first love, the offspring of Judah, Israel.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

NO! Why would I feel 2nd class. I am exactly where I want to be, IN GODS' MERCY, THIS Grace I ACCEPTED, given to me through the Blood of the Perfect Lamb of God, Y'shua, IN HIS MERCY, HE ATONED FOR MY SINS - I had a lot of suffering in this life, and FAILURES, and none of it bothers me, for my redeemer lives. This is the GOOD NEWS - Jesus ATONED for all my sins, that I may have eternal life, the life abundant, and a relationship with God, a free gift, no one can earn this FREE GIFT, as Paul wrote, This is the free gift, to all whom accept it, from God

William Shakespeare addressed this 'GOOD NEWS' in the Merchant of Venice, beginning with Act IV Scene 1

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:

'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy. I have spoke thus much
To mitigate the justice of thy plea;
Which if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
Must needs give sentence 'gainst the merchant there.

Many have interpreted the above as simply an anti Jewish rant, but this is not so. Shakespeare is addressing salvation via the Mosaic Law verses The New Laws of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. And as confirmed by Paul: Hebrews 7: 11-25

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.

17 For it is attested of Him,
“You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”


18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21 (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, “The Lord has sworn And will not change His mind, ‘You are a priest forever’”);

22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant."

As for me, I am glad God showed great mercy on us and made a way for me to gain eternal life through the blood of Y'shua, a free gift to all who accept the atoning the blood of Y'shua, as a scapegoat, Whom takes away our sins and that includes all Jews, His favored people, when the times of the gentiles to be saved ends, God will receive his most favored people, His first love, the offspring of Judah, Israel.

 

[annier]

This is the issue...

Identifying With Israel
The primary role of Gentiles in the Body of the Messiah is to identify with Israel.

I did not see it that way back then, although those word's were used. I seen it more along the lines of what you are saying about being sons of Abraham. What made it "Jewish", were the Jews. What made us Son's of Abraham was Christ. Our standing in Christ was always first and foremost in my mind. So I did not really think in terms of first class second class stuff.

To identify with Israel is different from identifying as Israel. As Gentiles, our struggle must be to show that we have been brought into a relationship with the God of Abraham without being a replacement of Israel. But there is a danger here. If Gentiles lose our own identity and become copy-cat Jews, or if the differences become hidden, the purpose for the Body to be both Jew and Gentile in one new man will be lost.

I never lost my identity. Nor did I ever desire to lose my identity. Nor did I feel second class. Not even while I accepted that Jews were ultimately in authority, or control of what the movement was, and would become. All I can say is I viewed myself to be in the same position with my kinsman in the flesh, as they were with their kinsman in the flesh. When one law doctrine came in, it was up to the Jew's to deal with their own movement. That is how i viewed things back then.

But this is interesting. You would think from the above quote non Jews shouldn't keep Torah....

Why is that?

"The role of the Gentile in the body must include an attractiveness in obedience that provokes unbelieving Jews to envy.

But....what I seen begin to happen, later of course, was Gentiles becoming envious.

Therefore, I believe that we can best fulfill this role by Torah observance that is consistent with the Torah commands, but is distinctive with regard to Jews and Gentiles."

"For those who, like myself, have been involved in the Messianic movement because of a desire to see an authentic Messianic Judaism that can be presented to the Jewish community with integrity, there is a need to be informed in the content and observance of Torah, so that Messianic Judaism is encouraged to grow in authentic observance. We also need to maintain our obedience to Torah commands in a manner that is clearly Biblical – but distinct from Jewish – so that we identify"

Again, though those words were used, in my mind I understood it to mean identifying as an heir with Jews as children of Abraham. Our equality was in Christ, and as heirs. That is just how I viewed things back then. A lot had to do with my life experiences as a Gentile Christian raised Catholic.

 

[ChavaK]

i was a gentile .. then i got born again.
grafted into the vine .. made one with it .

So you believe you are no longer a gentile?

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Delete

 

[annier]

Delete

Marc, I accidently posted this question in an mj only thread, because it was speaking on the same thing as here . So I copied it here to ask you.

Marc, am I understanding correctly or not on this.....
I have read somewhere... That rabbinic Judaism is for the purpose to keep Jewish identity, in the absence of the temple.
There is no more Levitical temple to defile, etc. So, didn't the Rabbi's decide to maintain their religious culture as a unity or identity of a people? Or is there more to "it", to consider?

 

[Shimshon]

This is the issue...

Identifying With Israel
The primary role of Gentiles in the Body of the Messiah is to identify with Israel. To identify with Israel is different from identifying as Israel. As Gentiles, our struggle must be to show that we have been brought into a relationship with the God of Abraham without being a replacement of Israel. But there is a danger here. If Gentiles lose our own identity and become copy-cat Jews, or if the differences become hidden, the purpose for the Body to be both Jew and Gentile in one new man will be lost.

I liked this point that was made. We are both part of the 'common'weath. We have not become each other.

 

[Shimshon]

Awesome to hear

Agreed, nice testimony. And one i'm more familiar hearing in real life.

 

[Lulav]

Most Jewish members choose to eat kosher, not because the OT required it, but because they believe it is a healthy diet, and part of their tradition, just as the Italians choose to eat spaghetti and meatballs with tomato sauce, and Chicken Parmesan Heroes.

And this is the problem I see, Jews that are being as Gentiles eating anything or only keeping kosher for health reasons whereas things certified Kosher are most likely NOT healthy to eat.

These in my way of thinking are just Hebrew Christians with a different name. They have not harked back to the first Century ways of Messiah Yeshua or his talmidim.

They are believing like most Christiandom that the law was done away with. I don't think those Gentiles that come here are looking to be like those kinds of Jews.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Most amazing is their children are quite happy, courteous - except when they pull a prank - all in good humor, obedient to their parents, and caring for each other.

They embrace the Laws of the New Covenant in Jesus Christ, their parents diligently teach them. Most Jewish members choose to eat kosher, not because the OT required it, but because they believe it is a healthy diet, and part of their tradition, just as the Italians choose to eat spaghetti and meatballs with tomato sauce, and Chicken Parmesan Heroes.

I tell you - they are a wonderful people, and I learn more by their insights of the OT and in the Gospel of Y'shua and the NT.

It's funny you mention what you did as it concerns the issue of food/Kosher. For sadly, there are always going to be people in the world assuming that someone is "less Jewish" than another due to how their motivations for observance are not on the basis of "God didn't allow it - it's WRONG!!!" ...but that thankfully doesn't hinder others from enjoying what it was that Yeshua himself allowed for and brought into fruition when it came to seeing the purpose behind the Food Laws and how that plays out. It certainly doesn't hinder them from seeing what the Torah noted in Genesis 9 when it came to God's covenant with Noah and later on when it came to noting the concept of focusing upon the Lord.

A lot of Messianic Jews are reminded of the example of Peter - who was a TOrah Observant Jew and yet he lived with an unclean Jewish tanner of animal skins ..directly before meeting COrnelius (as seen here) - and historically, Torah Observant Jews had rules that gave boundaries when it came to working with that which is unclean. ...yet Peter went into Cornelius's home...and ate the food given to him by the man....for many, the focus is what Yeshua noted when saying in Matthew 15:1-20 and Luke 11:37-53 that what came from inside a man was truly what made Him unclean - inner purity - and that the food laws were for emphasizing the issue of ritual seperation from others who didn't serve God, seeing how many of the foods were not unhealthy in/of themselves even though the nations surrounding Israel at the time may've used them in worship practices......prior to God bringing Jew/Gentile together as ONE.

As it is, Kosher has varied depending on the Jewish community one lives in. On the Kosher Diet aspect, we've already had a couple of discussions amongst members on what kosher is/how others differ in that when it comes to seeing what they value. On where there was previous discussion:

• Kosher
• Leather jacket - made from pig skin - forbidden?
• Walmart Lolipops
• Cooking Meat and Kosher
• Shavaout and icecream sundays
• DIscussing Matisyahu in his facial hair style
• The Lion, the Lamb &...Lettuce?: Was Torah Meant for Vegetarian Leanings?
• Torah, Food & Bugs: Which Kosher Insects Would You Be Comfortable Eating?

We've had a lot of good discussions on Kosher before. Others feel that eating bugs of certain types like locusts are allowed while others are to discontinue - such as is the case with the Jews of Yemen and how they have been deemed to be "non-Kosher" by the Askenazi Jews for their views on eating locusts. Both groups are focused on Torah/honoring it - and yet both have differences on what is or isn't to be "kosher". More was discussed explictly on the subject here, here and here/here. Some here actually jumped in/shared their thoughts of where they didn't really agree with certain foods in the Dietary Laws because they were not comfortable eating bugs as other Jewish groups were - and there was honest dialouge on what it means to live according to Kosher

Sadly, many in the MJ world wouldn't even eat bugs if they were given the option - and thus, in effect, it shows they're not as focused on Kosher as they claim....and yet when it comes to other Jewish believers doing as others did in the early body of Christ with keeping Kosher but not doing so out of obligation, they would be quick to judge them as being less "Jewish" than they...and that's always a matter of self-focus.

As it concerns the example of Christ/the apostles and what often happened within the OT when it came to God making provision (more here, here, here,here,here, , here and here, etc), the examples of Esther and Elijah the prophet come to mind in light of where they didn't always eat kosher in sticky situations (more here and here). There were already numerous examples in the scriptures where the Lord made clear that to love someone was more important than remaining kosher in all instances, paticularly as it pertains to the Gospel of Christ...and many things had a specific context that pertained to the Mosaic Code prior to when the Lord rearranged thingd ( Hebrews 9:9-11/Hebrews 9, Hebrews 13:8-10/Hebrews 13 )---with Gentiles never even being required to eat Kosher to begin with

In Torah, there is a learning curve and observance is very much a matter of personal development and choice. Although I hate to say, many of the Gentile posters here (as well as some of the Jewish ones) just don't seem to understand that, nor do many want it.

Ariel Ministries did a great review on the issue here alongside the Messianic brothers/sisters at the Rosh Pina Project as seen here. Dr.Michael Brown also had some good thoughts (as shared here ) as it concerns the ways the apostles practiced Kosher opposite of how many do so legalistically today and what that should teach us in our times when we condemn others in the name of Christ for going to the house of others during outreach/evangelism and proclaiming them inferior because their level of observance with Kosher wasn't the same as our own. For more one can go to Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus: New Testament Objections: Volume 4 - Page 279

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
Romans 14:16-18 Romans 14

Romans 15:3
We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.”[] 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews[b on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed 9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy
​

__________________


Many of the Jewish believers in the 1st century Church and the time of the Apostles had some of the same experiences/dynamics - and sadly, that is forgotten by many claiming to want to be like the disciples of old, yet assuming the disciples of old never did what others did at your fellowship. ...and sadly, for those resisting, they end up doing like some of the sects (Ebionites) did that Jewish believers had to combat when assuming other Jewish believers could never have freedom to eat non-kosher food and assuming Gentiles had to do so in order to be acceptable to Christ. But it is unbiblical when someone claims to be Messianic in the name of Torah Obserances and tries to judge the observance and yet their own observance is already incomplete/not lined up with everything, nor their own lives the standard since they don't even do fully what is said in Torah when it comes to others pointing that out. They may be zealous in their views - or passionate (which we're called to be according to Romans 12) - but they are not the center of how things should be. Only GOD is the judge - and He is the focus...


It is anti-Christ, of course, whenever that occurs...as well as not knowledgeable of the Law/Torah since one can believe God's Torah still exists and yet understand the context it was written in, as well as note what the Lord called Jewish people to do at the command of Christ. So long as the Gospel is being promoted, that's all the Lord is concerned for...

And I'm thankful for the people at your own fellowship having that kind of focus on the matter - it's what Early Jewish believers/Christians (as they were all called) stood for in the time of the Apostles and it'd good if more had that mindset today