We Don't Deserve Hell

Oct 21, 2013
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Why create a species that is flawed, then punish us for being flawed as if it is our fault? He condemns us for acting in the way that he created us. the bible speaks as if we don't deserve forgiveness, but we really do. We didn't ask to be created and did not ask for the opportunity of hell. I much rather have no free will and live in peace, then to have hell. It's especially a joke since most of His creation ends up in Hell anyways.

Why make it so difficult to follow God? What is the purpose of us choosing him? Is it a nice ego boost?

Thank you so much for creating me just so that I can turn to you and make a choice of following you. So glad my life is so purposeful.

I do not mean be so harsh with these statements, but it really does sound a bit ridiculous
 
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Why create a species that is flawed.....

But God didn't create us "flawed", IH, we were made "upright" (Ecclesiastes 7:29) in the very image of God Himself (Genesis 1:27). It was God's original intention for us to live in everlasting fellowship with Him.

But we chose to disobey Him and fell into sin and death. That was our choice, not His! We brought this down on our own heads .. :doh:

The Good News is, in spite of what we did, He apparently loves us so much that He chose to die for us rather than live w/o us .. :amen:

Yours and His,
David
 
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But God didn't create us "flawed", IH, we were made "upright" (Ecclesiastes 7:29) in the very image of God Himself (Genesis 1:27). It was God's original intention for us to live in everlasting fellowship with Him.

But we chose to disobey Him and fell into sin and death. That was our choice, not His! We brought this down on our own heads .. :doh:

The Good News is, in spite of what we did, He apparently loves us so much that He chose to die for us rather than live w/o us .. :amen:

Yours and His,
David

Now what I meant was that he created a species that has the option of flaw, which means he produced flaw. For Him to say we chose sin means that God must be oblivious to the power of sin (which would not exist if it wasn't for Gods creations).Its like me throwing away leaking cups because I created them with holes.
 
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Now what I meant was that he created a species that has the option of flaw, which means he produced flaw. For Him to say we chose sin means that God must be oblivious to the power of sin (which would not exist if it wasn't for Gods creations).Its like me throwing away leaking cups because I created them with holes.

It was our decision, since we had free will that God gave us, to disobey Him. Isn't it kind of nice that God lets us do what we want? God knows that free will is good, and a gift, and He's given it to us. It was our fault to abuse it.

And He's not throwing us away. It was our fault, and He's giving us the OPTION to accept being redeemed. Which means God says "I don't remember your sins" to whoever accepted His free gift of salvation. Yes we do deserve Hell. He didn't produce flaw. Technically, Satan did originally.
 
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IronicallyHuman said:
Now what I meant was that he created a species that has the option of flaw, which means he produced flaw.
The alternative being humans would not have the ability to choose, or what is termed as 'free will'. You would prefer to be a docile being, incapable of objecting to anything, always following?
 
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The alternative being humans would not have the ability to choose, or what is termed as 'free will'. You would prefer to be a docile being, incapable of objecting to anything, always following?
Yes, because the only alternative to good is sin, therefore I would never want to sin. It wouldn't take away the ability to have careers or make decisions, but it would take away the chance of doing evil. Doesn't sound to shabby to me
 
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It was our decision, since we had free will that God gave us, to disobey Him. Isn't it kind of nice that God lets us do what we want? God knows that free will is good, and a gift, and He's given it to us. It was our fault to abuse it.

And He's not throwing us away. It was our fault, and He's giving us the OPTION to accept being redeemed. Which means God says "I don't remember your sins" to whoever accepted His free gift of salvation. Yes we do deserve Hell. He didn't produce flaw. Technically, Satan did originally.

Yes but for us to choose, we are given choice.. For choice to be possible there must be options. Therefore God created two options. It isn't free will without the option to choose wrong. It is not our personal faults for sin as sin is inevitable. We can't help but to sin in the eyes of God, so we really don't deserve hell since we didn't ask to have the option. If I sign you up without you having a choice, I can't really get [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed if you fail at what I made you do.
 
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If God created us in his image, he created us with holiness. But God has a will, so he had to create us also with a will, and we use it to sin where he uses it to stay holy. As has been pointed out, God in his holiness took the payment for our unholiness onto himself - he sent his son Jesus to pay our sin-debt. So how can we possibly hold it against God for creating us in his image, and then providing a way back to the holiness he created us in? God already took responsibility for creating us in his image, so the last thing we should do is tell him it's not good enough.

Remember that even Lucifer, angel in charge of heavenly music, had sin of pride in him. Was Lucifer created in God's image? No....we humans are created in God's image, which is why Satan and his minions hate us so much. We remind them of God. We have the free will to reject him and blame him for our sin (blasphemy!) or we can use our free will to accept the great gift of redemption through the Lord Jesus. And we can do this on a daily basis, on an hourly basis, minute-by-minute, even. Satan never had that opportunity. So God is good.
 
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fhansen

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Why create a species that is flawed, then punish us for being flawed as if it is our fault? He condemns us for acting in the way that he created us. the bible speaks as if we don't deserve forgiveness, but we really do. We didn't ask to be created and did not ask for the opportunity of hell. I much rather have no free will and live in peace, then to have hell. It's especially a joke since most of His creation ends up in Hell anyways.

Why make it so difficult to follow God? What is the purpose of us choosing him? Is it a nice ego boost?

Thank you so much for creating me just so that I can turn to you and make a choice of following you. So glad my life is so purposeful.

I do not mean be so harsh with these statements, but it really does sound a bit ridiculous
Hell's our choice, not God's; He desires none to perish. Hell is existence spent in opposition to love-in cold selfish pride. Heaven is to embrace goodness, summed up by the word "love". God is heaven; He's what makes heaven what it is.
 
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Hell's our choice, not God's; He desires none to perish. Hell is existence spent in opposition to love-in cold selfish pride. Heaven is to embrace goodness, summed up by the word "love". God is heaven; He's what makes heaven what it is.

But he created us. Therefore he gave us the option of hell. He created a species that chooses evil and hell more often than God. Seems a bit interesting to me. And if God created everything in all of existence... That means he created a mind that can reject him and create darkness.
 
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fhansen

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But he created us. Therefore he gave us the option of hell. He created a species that chooses evil and hell more often than God. Seems a bit interesting to me. And if God created everything in all of existence... That means he created a mind that can reject him and create darkness.
It's all played out with justice. Because there's nothing but righteousness in our existence-to our existing- (existence being an undeniable good whether or not we accept that fact at any point in time) and there's nothing but righteousness in the choice for heaven, in the choice for God. And He's nothing if not infinitely just, fair, kind, trustworthy, patient, merciful; His love for man knows no bounds. We have no idea how many choose evil and hell at the end of the day but He'll do His utmost to keep them from there in any case, desiring none to perish. He won't force us to choose that which is right and good however; He simply shows us what those things are, most definitively in the life, teachings, passion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. God offers us the light; the only injustice is in our choosing darkness instead.
 
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boogalaboogala

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Why create a species that is flawed, then punish us for being flawed as if it is our fault? He condemns us for acting in the way that he created us. the bible speaks as if we don't deserve forgiveness, but we really do. We didn't ask to be created and did not ask for the opportunity of hell. I much rather have no free will and live in peace, then to have hell. It's especially a joke since most of His creation ends up in Hell anyways.

Why make it so difficult to follow God? What is the purpose of us choosing him? Is it a nice ego boost?

Thank you so much for creating me just so that I can turn to you and make a choice of following you. So glad my life is so purposeful.

I do not mean be so harsh with these statements, but it really does sound a bit ridiculous

God is perfect, so how is it that He could possibly create anything imperfect.. that's just it.. He can't.
we fell in the garden.. and that is when sin entered the world..
man's first sin was the very same sin that lucifer committed in Heaven.. he was grasping at equality with God, and so was the woman.. when the serpent said if you eat of this tree, you will be like God. knowing good from evil..so naturally because of pride. the woman ate..
so you say God made us to live this way.. wow, you really are blind.. and you say that we didn't ask to be created, so how can He send us to hell.
actually God is sovereign.. He as the sovereign of the universe can pretty much do as He pleases.. and i can assure you the He does.. you speek of free will.. honestly. do you really believe that you have free will..well, we as humans only have a sense of what we think free will is.. the fact that we are enslaved to all of the bad choices we make is a sure sign that we do not have any will power what so ever.. and heres a news flash.. you can joke all you like.. infact you can scoff in the face of God.. bigger and better than you have and will continue to do so.. but that does not change the fact that eternal separation from our Creator is very real for the vast majority.. so hell is just waiting to be filled up with the likes of anyone that isn't washed in the blood of the Lamb of God..
i noticed that you thanked God in a sarcastic way for creating you so that you can turn to Him, and follow Him.. well, another news flash.. you can't just turn to God and start following Him.. He chose His elect before the foundation of the world was in place.. now i am not saying that you are not one of His elect.. quite possibly you are. as anyone that was totally debased the things of God, wouldn't even give a second thought to this..
so you are kinda like the child in the grocery store lineup, that takes a temper tantrum because they don't get their own way..
by the way.. i was just like that.. when i was 10 or 11 years old. i would scream at God for creating me only for me to die one day.. that is where you seem to be right now.. that's a good thing..
belittling God with words is right around the time when we scream at Him.. He doesn't entertain out outbursts so we resort to human nature..and that is to rebel..
God is so awesome, that He overlooks these petty attacks.. remember that God will not be reduced to something we can comprehend.. He is invisible.. infact the bible calls Him the invisible God..
funny how you are here on a christian forum typing out your feelings for all of us to see, and hopefully answer right..
let me just take a quick moment to tell you this.. God created man perfect.. He created man in His own image.. He also created us to worship Him alone, and in doing so , bring Glory to His name.. we fell in the garden.. we made that poor choice.. but. God being gracious beyond understanding, immediately promised a saviour, to reconcile us back to Him.. this saviour is the Christ.. Jesus the man is also Jesus the only begotten Son of the Most High God.. Jesus is God.. how's that for a mouthful.. it seems confusing, and it is.. lol.. just kidding.. the truth is. God has made this gospel so easy to understand that little children gobble this stuff up.. and yet the wise and learned cannot grasp it..
here is the part that goes right in line with what the bible says about God's elect..we need to become humbled in order to call on the name of the Lord.. and even then we are dealing with a debased mind.. that means completely sinful.. so, it is the work of the Holy Spirit. this would be God again.. thats right. God is three persons.. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.. they are one God.. again, who can possibly understand the things of God.. even paul the apostle could not explain the Triune Diety.. so don't beat yourself up for feeling like you will never get it.. the fact is you probably never will.. i doubt anyone will.
anyhow, so what i was saying is that God woos His beloved and He does this through the power of the Holy Spirit.. i believe in my heart that this is what is going on with you right now.. and believe me, this is awesome, because the bible tells us that those that God starts a good work in.. He finishes it..
you really do need to pick up a bible and just read it.. it answers every question that has and will ever matter.. that book or should i say, library of books in one. has all the knowledge you will ever need to know.. if applied in your life there will be no limits to what God may do in and with your life.. and if you choose to pick it up and start reading it.. that also will because the Spirit tells you to..
are you starting to see how free will really isn't..
infact even your rebellion isn't all your own.. there is so much going on the the spiritual realm that you cannot even imagine.. what i mean by spiritual, is angels, devils or demons.... ephesians 6, talks about powers and principalities, authorities in high places.. these are angel, the devil and demons.. this is in the bible..
i could go on all day. but, you know what.. i am going to trust God to finish the work He has started in you..
see you at the wedding supper of the Lamb .. yes thats in the bible also.. read it.. it will not only change your life. but, also anyone that you come in contact with.. that is very real...
 
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boogalaboogala

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oh ya.. i meant to tell you something about deserving hell.. we all deserve it.. infact it is by grace that any of us are saved.. God is righteous, and has to punish all sin.. because if He didn't, then He would not be just..
God is all about bringing glory to His Name.. and He does this in only two ways.. the first is to punish the unrighteousness of sinners.. that would be all of us right.. and the second way God brings glory to His Name, is to show mercy to sinners that deserve the wrath of God because of their unrighteousness..
so it isn't about us at all. we are merely vessels in which God uses in bringing glory to Himself.. it is all about God, and thats it..

hope that helps.. i am going to say that regardless of what you are thinking about God and christianity.. i love you and so does the Lord.. sometime maybe talking to Him.. talk to Him about your feelings.. question Him.. He loves you so much.. immeasurable.. and not because of anything you have ever done or ever could do.. He loves you because of Whom He is..
God actually formed you in your mothers womb.. that means that God had a hands on experience with you.. the sovereign of the universe listens to you breath and your heartbeat, and rejoices in His creation.. believe me. God knows you have questions.. He feels your sufferings through the sufferings on the cross.. He suffers right along with you.. listen, he is so real that as you draw closer to Him.. He will set your soul ablaze.. i know this.. the moment you confess Jesus as your Lord and saviour, and believe in your heart that He paid your sin debt in full.. you will immediately pass from death to life eternal.. thats right.. you will live for eternity.. what i am saying here is that you through christ escape the second death.. its in the bible.. read all about it..
i have lots of things i could be doing right now.. but, it is because of the love of Jesus Christ that is in me that i am writing this to you.. because i want more than anything in my day to know that i have done everything i can to inform you, because on that last day, when you exhale your last. that you will be received by my Lord and God, Jesus the Christ..
i will rejoice with you and all of the saints along with our gracious Lord at the wedding supper of the Lamb of God.. take care
 
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fhansen

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God is perfect, so how is it that He could possibly create anything imperfect.. that's just it.. He can't.
we fell in the garden.. and that is when sin entered the world..
But if Adam was perfect then how is it that he could commit such an imperfect act as to disobey God?
 
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ValleyGal

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But if Adam was perfect then how is it that he could commit such an imperfect act as to disobey God?

Adam and Eve had not yet eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They did not "know" about evil yet. All they knew was good. When they were tempted, they understood then that there was something they didn't know. They were perfect, but they did not have all God's "knowledge" - and that is what they wanted, just like Satan, to be like God in his knowledge.
 
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fhansen

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Adam and Eve had not yet eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They did not "know" about evil yet. All they knew was good. When they were tempted, they understood then that there was something they didn't know. They were perfect, but they did not have all God's "knowledge" - and that is what they wanted, just like Satan, to be like God in his knowledge.
Thank you. Do you think that their ignorance made them a bit less culpable for their sin? Some seem to think it shouldn't but I tend to think it did.
 
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Ah our carnal natures which is at enmity with God and our deceitful hearts.

Why do they flee to the caves and beg for the stones to hide them?

Yet God comforts and guides us with His Spirit, a Spirit of love not a spirit of fear.
 
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