Eternal Torment is nowhere in The Bible

[SavedByChrist94]

Rethinking Hell | Exploring Evangelical Conditionalism (Annihilationism)

Lets start here, John 3:35-36 - ""The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.""

The Wrath of God is not Life, So wrath of God is Death to those who harm others(1 John 3) who are Lawless of Matthew 7:12

Wrath of God means basically the Justice of God, not madness, read The Word, Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath means to stop evil/oppose evil(which is harm)

Meaning the wrath of God is a mistranslation and actually means Justice/ending evil(harm)(For lack of a better word)


Those who do not Treat others the same way they would want others to treat them(Matthew 7:12) will not see Life, they will cease to exist.


Now, lets go to what Eternal Fire/Lake of Fire terms mean because alot of people simply believe in the World(Colossians 2:20-23) rather than The Apostles & Prophets who are of YHWH,

Jude 1:7 - "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Sodom and Gomorrah no longer exist, that city was annihilated, and That is according to Jude 1:7 The example of Eternal Fire, Eternal Fire means Death, hence the Term Eternal Fire, the Fire has Eternal consequences, Nonexistence. Fire burns out it doesn't keep burning, it annihilates.

Revelation 20:14 - "Then death and Hades(Hell) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

The Lake of fire isn't some literal lake, it's defined clear cut, no excuses, "This is the second death, the lake of fire"

Then we have people claiming this supports eternal torment, Matthew 25:46 - ""These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.""

However this assumes that Punishments means eternal torment, that's Assuming Eternal Torment into the text, as Punishment can also mean Death, add that with the fact that Torture is never ever used as punishment in the bible, in the Old or New Testament, but Death is, even stoning was made painless, as it rendered you unconscious( Jewish Law - Legal Briefs ("Bryan v. Moore2") )

It just proves that Annihilation is true, it's so clear, "but the righteous into eternal life" The Righteous get Eternal life, not those who get punished,

the ones who get punished Do Not get what The Righteous get, which is Eternal Life, they do not get Eternal Life, if they do not get Life/Existence, then their Dead/They don't exist.

They will cease to exist forever.

So that proves annihilation as well,


Then people use, revelation 14:11, "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever." but that's also refuted as the term was used in the Old testament to describe something that Did Not last forever and ever.

Explicit Mistakes: A Response to Matt Chandler | Rethinking Hell

Chandler doesn’t spend much time with these or any other texts as support for the traditional view of hell, so I won’t spend a lot of time with them, either. And fortunately Chandler does not appear to make too much out of the “weeping and gnashing” statements of Jesus (even though many critics of conditionalism have done so), which say nothing about the duration of the weeping and gnashing. So I won’t comment on them now.

It is implied, however, that the undying worm of Mark 9:48 does say something about the duration of suffering as part of final punishment, but he doesn’t provide the original context of the idiom, leaving his readers to assume Jesus must certainly be saying something about never dying in hell. And yet Jesus is virtually quoting Isaiah 66:24 which, unmentioned in Chandler’s book, explicitly says that it is corpses whose “worm will not die.” The idiom communicates the shame of having one’s corpse unburied, and arguably the irresistible and complete consumption of those corpses by maggots.

Critics of conditionalism sometimes accuse us of refusing to allow Jesus and New Testament authors to apply Old Testament language typologically, and to expand or change their original meaning.4 This is not the case; we do not deny the New Testament the freedom to expand upon and transcend the original meaning of Old Testament texts. We just think traditionalists cannot identify any texts in which the meaning is being expanded in such a way as would support eternal conscious torment. Jesus certainly gives no indication in Mark 9 that He is changing the host of the worms in Isaiah from dead and rotting corpses to living, immortal bodies.

Chandler’s appeal to Revelation 14:11 likewise fails to provide information about the text that is crucial to understanding its meaning. For one, the vision John records is replete with apocalyptic imagery, not intended to be taken literally. As one of numerous examples that demonstrate this, consider the ten horns and seven heads of the infamous beast from the sea,5 which the angel interprets as symbolizing mountains and kings in the real world.6 Those of Chandler’s readers who are unfamiliar with the nature of the book of Revelation may think he is citing text originally intended to be taken in a straightforward, literal way.

Secondly, Matt does not point his readers to the connection between the ever-rising smoke of Revelation 14:11 and the Old Testament imagery upon which it draws. Prophesying the long-past destruction of the city of Edom, Isaiah says that its fire “will not be quenched night or day; Its smoke will go up forever.”7 And yet the fires which destroyed Edom are not still burning, smoke is not still rising from its remains. The imagery communicates the city’s permanent and irreversible destruction, not its perpetual or everlasting burning. We have no reason, then, for thinking the same imagery in Revelation communicates the perpetual, everlasting torment of human beings.

The Isaiah passage referred to in that quote is, Isaiah 34:10.

So there you have it, not one passage of eternal torment, YHWH said Love your enemies(Matthew 5:42-48),

The Law is Matthew 7:12 - "Therefore in Everything, Treat others the same way you would want them to treat you, for this Is the Law and the Prophets" - Jesus Christ(YHWH)

YHWH(The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit) would never refuse to do this, as He Is Love(1 John 4:8) and He Does not Sin(James 1:13, 1 John 3:4) He cannot nor will ever be Lawless of Matthew 7:12

Eternal Torment is false and nowhere found in The Bible.

 

[sdowney717]

Rev 14

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

What I get from this is
Smoke of their tormenting fire lasts forever.
No rest day or night.
So eternal torment never ending, all the time in tormenting flames, no ceasing.

Hell was made for the devil and his angels. So Hell was made before the fall of man in the garden.

The resurrected bodies of the unsaved dead, go into the lake of fire.
You might consider God gives them a body for a reason, maybe one that can endure the fire forever?

God is just, God is love yes He is. He is a loving God where some in His creation end up in eternal torments.

But does God love them who go to hell?

In ephesians 2 it is because of HIS great love that we are made alive who were dead in our sins.

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

His love made some live, but the others God did not give to them His great love and they stayed dead.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

What I get from this is
Smoke of their tormenting fire lasts forever.
No rest day or night.
So eternal torment never ending, all the time in tormenting flames, no ceasing.

No, Smoke of their torment term doesn't mean torment or even eternal torment, posting again

Explicit Mistakes: A Response to Matt Chandler | Rethinking Hell

Chandler doesn’t spend much time with these or any other texts as support for the traditional view of hell, so I won’t spend a lot of time with them, either. And fortunately Chandler does not appear to make too much out of the “weeping and gnashing” statements of Jesus (even though many critics of conditionalism have done so), which say nothing about the duration of the weeping and gnashing. So I won’t comment on them now.

It is implied, however, that the undying worm of Mark 9:48 does say something about the duration of suffering as part of final punishment, but he doesn’t provide the original context of the idiom, leaving his readers to assume Jesus must certainly be saying something about never dying in hell. And yet Jesus is virtually quoting Isaiah 66:24 which, unmentioned in Chandler’s book, explicitly says that it is corpses whose “worm will not die.” The idiom communicates the shame of having one’s corpse unburied, and arguably the irresistible and complete consumption of those corpses by maggots.

Critics of conditionalism sometimes accuse us of refusing to allow Jesus and New Testament authors to apply Old Testament language typologically, and to expand or change their original meaning.4 This is not the case; we do not deny the New Testament the freedom to expand upon and transcend the original meaning of Old Testament texts. We just think traditionalists cannot identify any texts in which the meaning is being expanded in such a way as would support eternal conscious torment. Jesus certainly gives no indication in Mark 9 that He is changing the host of the worms in Isaiah from dead and rotting corpses to living, immortal bodies.

Chandler’s appeal to Revelation 14:11 likewise fails to provide information about the text that is crucial to understanding its meaning. For one, the vision John records is replete with apocalyptic imagery, not intended to be taken literally. As one of numerous examples that demonstrate this, consider the ten horns and seven heads of the infamous beast from the sea,5 which the angel interprets as symbolizing mountains and kings in the real world.6 Those of Chandler’s readers who are unfamiliar with the nature of the book of Revelation may think he is citing text originally intended to be taken in a straightforward, literal way.

Secondly, Matt does not point his readers to the connection between the ever-rising smoke of Revelation 14:11 and the Old Testament imagery upon which it draws. Prophesying the long-past destruction of the city of Edom, Isaiah says that its fire “will not be quenched night or day; Its smoke will go up forever.”7 And yet the fires which destroyed Edom are not still burning, smoke is not still rising from its remains. The imagery communicates the city’s permanent and irreversible destruction, not its perpetual or everlasting burning. We have no reason, then, for thinking the same imagery in Revelation communicates the perpetual, everlasting torment of human beings.

The Isaiah passage referred to in that quote is, Isaiah 34:10. term is used there, meaning Smoke rising forever and ever doesn't mean Eternal torment.

Hell was made for the devil and his angels. So Hell was made before the fall of man in the garden.

and Hell means the Grave.(Hades), which is for the dead.

The resurrected bodies of the unsaved dead, go into the lake of fire.

Lake of fire which means Second Death. Revelation 20:14

might consider God gives them a body for a reason, maybe one that can endure the fire forever?

You cannot endure the fire, it annihilates/consumes, they will die as Jesus Christ said, they will not see life as said in John 3:35-36

God is just, God is love yes He is. He is a loving God where some in His creation end up in eternal torments.

Eternal Torment is not love nor is it in The Bible, The Law is Matthew 7:12,

"Therefore in Everything, Treat others the same way you would want them to treat you, for this Is The Law and the Prophets" - Matthew 7:12, Jesus Christ(YHWH)


and Sin means Lawlessness according to 1 John 3:4, so Sin means Not treating others the same way you would want them to treat you,

And YHWH does not Sin, so He doesn't mistreat others, He treats them the way He would want them to treat Him, people who sin and harm others will cease to exist and they remained a Slave to Harming(sin) others, Romans 7.

Asserting eternal torment is in the bible doesn't prove it, as proven in first post, eternal torment is nowhere in the Bible, you have to use the Bible to prove it.

But does God love them who go to hell?

In ephesians 2 it is because of HIS great love that we are made alive who were dead in our sins.

No, they die and cease to exist, John 3:35-36, they will not see life.

 

[Denied]

John 3:35-36 gr.zoe: life, physical or spiritual. 'He who does not obey the Son will not see life'. I'm re-thinking the eternal torment deal also.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

John 3:35-36 gr.zoe: life, physical or spiritual. 'He who does not obey the Son will not see life'. I'm re-thinking the eternal torment deal also.

Life as in Person/Existence/Being, John 3:36 Lexicon: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Strong's Greek: 2222. ζωή (zóé) -- life

read Jude 1:7, it's clear, says Example of eternal fire is sodom and gomorrah, and Sodom and Gomorrah were annihilated.

go to rethinkinghell.com for more.

 

[johnregnier]

Rethinking Hell | Exploring Evangelical Conditionalism (Annihilationism)

Lets start here, John 3:35-36 - ""The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.""

The Wrath of God is not Life, So wrath of God is Death to those who harm others(1 John 3) who are Lawless of Matthew 7:12

Wrath of God means basically the Justice of God, not madness, read The Word, Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath means to stop evil/oppose evil(which is harm)

Meaning the wrath of God is a mistranslation and actually means Justice/ending evil(harm)(For lack of a better word)


Those who do not Treat others the same way they would want others to treat them(Matthew 7:12) will not see Life, they will cease to exist.


Now, lets go to what Eternal Fire/Lake of Fire terms mean because alot of people simply believe in the World(Colossians 2:20-23) rather than The Apostles & Prophets who are of YHWH,

Jude 1:7 - "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Sodom and Gomorrah no longer exist, that city was annihilated, and That is according to Jude 1:7 The example of Eternal Fire, Eternal Fire means Death, hence the Term Eternal Fire, the Fire has Eternal consequences, Nonexistence. Fire burns out it doesn't keep burning, it annihilates.

Revelation 20:14 - "Then death and Hades(Hell) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

The Lake of fire isn't some literal lake, it's defined clear cut, no excuses, "This is the second death, the lake of fire"

Then we have people claiming this supports eternal torment, Matthew 25:46 - ""These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.""

However this assumes that Punishments means eternal torment, that's Assuming Eternal Torment into the text, as Punishment can also mean Death, add that with the fact that Torture is never ever used as punishment in the bible, in the Old or New Testament, but Death is, even stoning was made painless, as it rendered you unconscious( Jewish Law - Legal Briefs ("Bryan v. Moore2") )

It just proves that Annihilation is true, it's so clear, "but the righteous into eternal life" The Righteous get Eternal life, not those who get punished,

the ones who get punished Do Not get what The Righteous get, which is Eternal Life, they do not get Eternal Life, if they do not get Life/Existence, then their Dead/They don't exist.

They will cease to exist forever.

So that proves annihilation as well,


Then people use, revelation 14:11, "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever." but that's also refuted as the term was used in the Old testament to describe something that Did Not last forever and ever.

Explicit Mistakes: A Response to Matt Chandler | Rethinking Hell



The Isaiah passage referred to in that quote is, Isaiah 34:10.

So there you have it, not one passage of eternal torment, YHWH said Love your enemies(Matthew 5:42-48),

The Law is Matthew 7:12 - "Therefore in Everything, Treat others the same way you would want them to treat you, for this Is the Law and the Prophets" - Jesus Christ(YHWH)

YHWH(The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit) would never refuse to do this, as He Is Love(1 John 4:8) and He Does not Sin(James 1:13, 1 John 3:4) He cannot nor will ever be Lawless of Matthew 7:12

Eternal Torment is false and nowhere found in The Bible.

What a bunch of nonsense

May God bless, John

 

[Hentenza]

thread moved from Christian Apologetics to UDD.

 

[Der Alte]

Rethinking Hell | Exploring Evangelical Conditionalism (Annihilationism)

Lets start here, John 3:35-36 - ""The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.""

The Wrath of God is not Life, So wrath of God is Death to those who harm others(1 John 3) who are Lawless of Matthew 7:12

Wrath of God means basically the Justice of God, not madness, read The Word, Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath means to stop evil/oppose evil(which is harm)

Meaning the wrath of God is a mistranslation and actually means Justice/ending evil(harm)(For lack of a better word)

Those who do not Treat others the same way they would want others to treat them(Matthew 7:12) will not see Life, they will cease to exist.

Now, lets go to what Eternal Fire/Lake of Fire terms mean because alot of people simply believe in the World(Colossians 2:20-23) rather than The Apostles & Prophets who are of YHWH,

Jude 1:7 - "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Sodom and Gomorrah no longer exist, that city was annihilated, and That is according to Jude 1:7 The example of Eternal Fire, Eternal Fire means Death, hence the Term Eternal Fire, the Fire has Eternal consequences, Nonexistence. Fire burns out it doesn't keep burning, it annihilates.

Revelation 20:14 - "Then death and Hades(Hell) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

The Lake of fire isn't some literal lake, it's defined clear cut, no excuses, "This is the second death, the lake of fire"

Then we have people claiming this supports eternal torment, Matthew 25:46 - ""These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.""

However this assumes that Punishments means eternal torment, that's Assuming Eternal Torment into the text, as Punishment can also mean Death, add that with the fact that Torture is never ever used as punishment in the bible, in the Old or New Testament, but Death is, even stoning was made painless, as it rendered you unconscious( Jewish Law - Legal Briefs ("Bryan v. Moore2") )

It just proves that Annihilation is true, it's so clear, "but the righteous into eternal life" The Righteous get Eternal life, not those who get punished,

the ones who get punished Do Not get what The Righteous get, which is Eternal Life, they do not get Eternal Life, if they do not get Life/Existence, then their Dead/They don't exist.

They will cease to exist forever.

So that proves annihilation as well,

Then people use, revelation 14:11, "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever." but that's also refuted as the term was used in the Old testament to describe something that Did Not last forever and ever.

Explicit Mistakes: A Response to Matt Chandler | Rethinking Hell

The Isaiah passage referred to in that quote is, Isaiah 34:10.

So there you have it, not one passage of eternal torment, YHWH said Love your enemies(Matthew 5:42-48),

The Law is Matthew 7:12 - "Therefore in Everything, Treat others the same way you would want them to treat you, for this Is the Law and the Prophets" - Jesus Christ(YHWH)

YHWH(The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit) would never refuse to do this, as He Is Love(1 John 4:8) and He Does not Sin(James 1:13, 1 John 3:4) He cannot nor will ever be Lawless of Matthew 7:12

Eternal Torment is false and nowhere found in The Bible.

Assumptions and presuppositions. You are wrong, you have been fed a bunch of hogwash by would be teachers who don't know what they are talking about. I would not mind discussing this with YOU, but I have no interest in reading and replying to a bunch of stuff copy/pasted from some anti-eternal conscious torment website.

I have been discussing this topic in three threads in this forum.

Link to thread God destroys BOTH body AND soul in Hell: Matt 10:28

Link to Is Hell Really Eternal?

Link to Destination: Hell

 

[Mediaeval]

Annihilationism is a kind of hopelessness. Universalism is a better alternative, where the the wicked are destroyed by their becoming righteous.

 

[Der Alte]

Annihilationism is a kind of hopelessness. Universalism is a better alternative, where the the wicked are destroyed by their becoming righteous.

Your assumptions/presuppositions, are not scripture and are not evidence.

 

[Denied]

I wonder why there is so much outrage by some over this topic.

 

[Ariston]

An Excerpt From the Book of Daniel

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever."

 

[Der Alte]

I wonder why there is so much outrage by some over this topic.

There are at this time four current threads on this topic in UT, all were started by outraged opponents of eternal torment. If they didn't start the threads there would be no outrage.

 

[Der Alte]

An Excerpt From the Book of Daniel

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever."

I like to point out to those who argue that eternal torment is not in the Bible, that this reads "some [shall awake] to shame and everlasting contempt" It does not say "some [shall awake] to shame and everlasting contempt, then they will be judged and annihilated." 1[sup]100[/sup] eons from now God's unchanging word will still read "some [shall awake] to shame and everlasting contempt"<period, end of story>

 

[Sayre]

Subbing.

I am one of those ebil annihilationists.

 

[Ariston]

Hey annihilationists: What do you make of Jesus saying in referring to judgment that, "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, &#8216;where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched&#8217; (Mark 9:27-28) and Jesus story of the rich man and Lazarus?

&#8220;There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, &#8216;Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.&#8217; But Abraham said, &#8216;Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.&#8217; And he said, &#8216;Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house&#8212; for I have five brothers&#8212;so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.&#8217; But Abraham said, &#8216;They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.&#8217; And he said, &#8216;No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.&#8217; He said to him, &#8216;If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead&#8217;&#8221; (Luke 16:19-31).

 

[SavedByChrist94]

I like to point out to those who argue that eternal torment is not in the Bible, that this reads "some [shall awake] to shame and everlasting contempt" It does not say "some [shall awake] to shame and everlasting contempt, then they will be judged and annihilated." 1[sup]100[/sup] eons from now God's unchanging word will still read "some [shall awake] to shame and everlasting contempt"<period, end of story>

Wait so the sinner feels Contempt? No everyone else feels contempt for the sinners, it doesn't say they will be tormented, says Shame and Everlasting Contempt.

Shame is from themselves and Everlasting Contempt is from other people, Contempt - "a feeling that someone or something is not worthy of any respect or approval"

It'd be The Angels, YHWH and Those who are get Eternal Life giving that Contempt to the sinner.

Does not show eternal torment, end of story.

 

[Ariston]

Everlasting Contempt

The passage seems to suggest that they persons will experience a state of being despised, dishonored, or disgrace (contempt) perhaps when they are laid bare before Christ at the judgment. They will also feel shame according to this passage. I can only imagine that this is the torment, the fiery flames; the the weeping and gnashing of teeth. Is any annihilationsts going to attempt to answer Jesus' teaching that I posted above (#16).

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality." - Romans 2:5-11

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Hey annihilationists: What do you make of Jesus saying in referring to judgment that, "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched’ (Mark 9:27-28) and Jesus story of the rich man and Lazarus?

1, it's better to go to The Kingdom of Heaven with One eye than have Two eyes and go to The Grave(Hell) because it''s better to have One eye and get Eternal life than it is to have Two eyes and Die and never see again.

2, "where their worm does not die and fire is not quenched", Jesus Christ quoted Scripture here,

Their Worm Does Not Die: Annihilation and Mark 9:48 | Rethinking Hell

Isaiah 66:24 - "And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

So again it proves Annihilation.

“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead’” (Luke 16:19-31).

Lazarus and the Rich Man: It’s Not About Final Punishment | Rethinking Hell

 

[SavedByChrist94]

Assumptions and presuppositions.

Assertion.

Also there is no assumption to it, Revelation 20:14, Clearly says Lake of Fire is Second Death, not a literal lake.

Jude 1:7 says Eternal Fire means what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah, Sodom and Gomorrah were Annihilated,

YHWH said crystal clear in John 3:35-36 - "The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

They will not see life, they won't exist.

You are wrong,

Prove it.

you have been fed a bunch of hogwash by would be teachers who don't know what they are talking about.

No, studied myself by The Holy Spirit. also you are not God(YHWH), you aren't with me and do not know what I do to claim, "have been fed..."

I would not mind discussing this with YOU, but I have no interest in reading and replying to a bunch of stuff copy/pasted from some anti-eternal conscious torment website.

Assuming I'll only use websites, I used one quote, the rest I did, you're just suppressing the truth to somehow(even though The Holy Spirit convicts you) believe in these false doctrines of satan.

I have been discussing this topic in three threads in this forum.

God destroys BOTH body AND soul in Hell: Matt 10:28

Destroys doesn't means Torture, Destroy means... Destroy, if you're destroyed you wouldn't exist. people really need to accept YHWH it's so clear.

Is Hell Really Eternal?

Death is eternal for those who reject YHWH.

Destination: Hell

Hell(Hades) means The Grave, Punishment of sins means death.

Annihilationism is a kind of hopelessness. Universalism is a better alternative, where the the wicked are destroyed by their becoming righteous.

If someone will never repent and YHWH kept them alive then they would suffer, That would be the False doctrine of Eternal Torment,

You know why everyone can't be saved? Because not everyone will repent. an unrepentant person who harms others(as that's what sin is, SavedByChrist94 presents True Christianity: What is Sin? ) and doesn't repent is doomed.

If YHWH keeps someone unrepentant alive after His appearance/2nd Coming, He'll have to separate them from everyone else so they won't harm anyone. then what? that unrepentant person will grow lonely, they hate YHWH, they'll suffer just like the doctrine of Eternal Torment.

So YHWH puts them out of existence, they're not good, they harm and they'll suffer if they stayed alive.

This is not counting the fact that if YHWH appears to the unrepentant person, the only reason they'll Claim repentance is to keep living, Not because they Love others,

See the problems with keeping them alive after YHWH appears? it's just like eternal torment. the only person who caused suffering was the unrepentant person, they choose to be slaves, harm others, suffer, do what they do not want to do(Romans 7).

Everlasting Contempt

The passage seems to suggest that they persons will experience a state of being despised, dishonored, or disgrace (contempt) perhaps when they are laid bare before Christ at the judgment.

They will be despised because they sinned, just because they are dispised by others doesn't mean they will live, they can be dead and be looked down on

They will also feel shame according to this passage.

Says Shame and Everlasting contempt, Shame isn't everlasting, the Contempt which is by other people is everlasting, so the sinner isn't alive for eternity.

I can only imagine that this is the torment, the fiery flames; the the weeping and gnashing of teeth.

reading into the text, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth because they are going to be annihilated.

And Eternal Fire is a term for death, as shown in first post.

"He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality." - Romans 2:5-11

Wrath which is a mistranslation of Justice(For lack of a better word) Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath

Proven by John 3:35-36 - "The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

And Distress, of course there will be distress, they know they're going to not exist and not harm anymore. Distress doesn't always mean torture, especially here.

So it's settled, they will not see life according to John 3:35-36, Eternal Torment is False and Unbiblical