Did believers have the holy spirit prior to Jesus?

[Rubiks]

I heard some people say no so i wanted to know what everyone else thinks

 

[Lion King]

Of course. Old Testament believers had the Spirit of God just as we today.

And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as Jehovah commanded Moses. Deuteronomy 34:9

 

[JalecoVision]

No.

They were not born again.

 

[Rubiks]

No.

They were not born again.

I think you misunderstood the question. I meant 33 AD (I think that was the year Jesus was crucified)

 

[JalecoVision]

I think you misunderstood the question. I meant 33 AD (I think that was the year Jesus was crucified)

The answer would still be no. Only John the Baptist had the holy ghost prior to Pentecost.

 

[Lion King]

No.

They were not born again.

How will Abraham and the rest of the OT saints enter the Kingdom of God if they were not born again?

 

[Optimax]

How will Abraham and the rest of the OT saints enter the Kingdom of God if they were not born again?

How could they been born again before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection?

The Holy Spirit was not in OT saints.

The holy Spirit came upon them for service for God.

 

[Nanopants]

Yes.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. -1 Pe 1:10,11

And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” -Rev 19:10

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone... -Eph 2:19,20

Although, whether some churches these days have the Spirit of Christ is questionable.

 

[JalecoVision]

How will Abraham and the rest of the OT saints enter the Kingdom of God if they were not born again?

They will enter the kingdom when they are resurrected at the Last Day. Until then, they sleep in waiting. They were saved because God chose them, having the gift of the holy ghost has nothing to do with being saved, but is for miraculous preaching of the Gospel. There was no Gospel back then.

 

[JalecoVision]

How could they been born again before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection?

The Holy Spirit was not in OT saints.

The holy Spirit came upon them for service for God.

This is accurate.

 

[TillICollapse]

How could they been born again before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection?

The Holy Spirit was not in OT saints.

The holy Spirit came upon them for service for God.

I would tend to side with this statement.

To further expound, how about this:

The OT saints experienced the Spirit as it came upon them, but walked by faith without having the Spirit of Christ within them. That is part of the mystery that was hidden for the ages but then revealed through Christ: Christ in *us*. That's why Christ is the first born, then us.

The OT saints had faith as a major sign of their lineage ... same as we have now ... thus they are still in Christ's line. It is all part of the same family, they still had the same *faith* given by God. The faith is the seed, not the "birthed baby" however. Christ is the birthed baby. So it's not as though they weren't part of the process of the birth of the family over time.

They were not "born" ... they were still in the "womb" so to speak. They experienced the womb.

Thoughts ?

 

[Nanopants]

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! -Luke 13:34

In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, "I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow." -Rev 18:7

 

[Lion King]

How could they been born again before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection?

Because they were God's children. Do you understand that every child of God is born again?

Why do you think Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel, didn't understand what it meant to be be born again? (John 3)

Hint: because what Jesus was teaching was not something totally brand new. The OT has always taught that we must be born again to be part of God's people.

Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. Deuteronomy 10:16

To circumcise your heart = born again/born of God.

The Holy Spirit was not in OT saints.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us[a] they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. 1 Peter 1:10-12


So the LORD said to Moses, "Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit of leadership, and lay your hand on him." Numbers 27:18

The holy Spirit came upon them for service for God.

It's just the writing style for OT. "Came upon/being filled" is still the same, just semantics.

 

[TillICollapse]

Because they were God's children. Do you understand that every child of God is born again?

Why do you think Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel, didn't understand what it meant to be be born again? (John 3)

Hint: because what Jesus was teaching was not something totally brand new. The OT has always taught that we must be born again to be part of God's people.

Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. Deuteronomy 10:16

To circumcise your heart = born again/born of God.





Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us[a] they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into. 1 Peter 1:10-12


So the LORD said to Moses, "Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit of leadership, and lay your hand on him." Numbers 27:18



It's just the writing style for OT. "Came upon/being filled" is still the same, just semantics.

Oooo good reference with 1 Peter 1. My understanding of OT saints just changed

 

[Lion King]

They will enter the kingdom when they are resurrected at the Last Day. Until then, they sleep in waiting. They were saved because God chose them, having the gift of the holy ghost has nothing to do with being saved, but is for miraculous preaching of the Gospel. There was no Gospel back then.

If Abraham didn't have the Spirit of God, how was he a friend to God?

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[Lion King]

Oooo good reference with 1 Peter 1. My understanding of OT saints just changed

I got it from nanopants.

 

[Nanopants]

I got it from Peter :\

Thanks Peter.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Eta I see this thread was active while I was working on this - I was doing the post and dinner at the same time. This would have been around post 5, so I apologize if I've repeated or didn't take into account anything said since then.


It depends on what you mean by "have the Holy Spirit" - and when you mean "prior to Jesus". I see you mentioned Jesus' crucifixion. I wonder if you may be thinking of Pentecost actually, and wondering if anyone had the Holy Spirit before that time?

A common teaching is that the Holy Spirit, prior to Pentecost, came to "rest on" individuals, and would "lift" when His work was done.

Anyway, John the Baptist was clearly filled with the Holy Spirit, according to Scripture, prior to Pentecost - indeed, prior to the birth of Jesus, since he was born before Jesus was.

Luke 1:15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

In the Old Testament, David's lament in Ps. 51:11 seems to imply the Holy Spirit had been with him, and he hoped to keep it that way

Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

There are many, many mentions of the Spirit of God (or similar terms) used in the OT. Here are just a few ...

Gen. 41:38 (speaking of Joseph in interpreting Pharoah's dream) So Pharaoh asked them, “Can we find anyone like this man, one in whom is the spirit of God?”

Ex. 31
1 Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “See, I have called by name Bezalel, the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah. 3 I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship,

Jud 6
34 So the Spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon; and he blew a trumpet, and the Abiezrites were called together to follow him.

1 Sam 10 (Saul)
6 Then the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you mightily, and you shall prophesy with them and be changed into another man.
10 When they came to [f]the hill there, behold, a group of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him mightily, so that he prophesied among them.
1 Sam 11
6 Then the Spirit of God came upon Saul mightily when he heard these words, and he became very angry.

1 Sam 16
14 Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him.

2 sam 23:2 (David's last psalm)
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me; his word was on my tongue

Is 48:16 (Isaiah)
“Come near to Me, listen to this:
From the first I have not spoken in secret,
From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

Ez 2 (Ezekiel)
Then He said to me, “Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!” 2 As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me.

Dan 4
8 But finally Daniel came in before me, whose name is Belteshazzar according to the name of my god, and in whom is a spirit of the holy gods; and I related the dream to him, saying, 9 ‘O Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, since I know that a spirit of the holy gods is in you and no mystery baffles you, tell me the visions of my dream which I have seen, along with its interpretation.

There are many, many more. I think the best understanding is that the Holy Spirit must have been active in the OT. Since we are obviously dealing with God in all of these verses, and no one has seen God the Father, and Christ was not yet on earth, I think the most likely interpretation is that the Holy Spirit was active in all of these cases. But there is no indication that it was expected to be a lifelong thing. David did ask God not to take the Holy Spirit away from him, so it seems that was a possibility.

 

[TillICollapse]

I got it from nanopants.

I got it from Peter :\

Thanks Peter.

Well props to all three of you lol. I'll pass it on to Lucky, Dusty, and Ned lol

 

[Giantbear]

Read Romans chapter 8 and understand that in the Old Covenant era the religion was constitutionally based in accordance with the laws of Leviticus and this differentiates them from the New Covenant era who go after the Spirit of Christ who leads them to all truth, his truth.

The Old was traditionally based on an ecclesiastical pharisaical enterprise who authored salvation through the law and their mark was a man based number.

The New is based upon the SEAL of God and has no concern of the matters of the flesh that the old pharisaical religious tradition represented and continues to represent today.