Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition?

[Jade777]

Hi Readers,

Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2?

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved (2 Thessalonians 2:1-10).
​

Some Evangelists & Ministers associate the above to Revelation 13 -- there are 2 Beasts involved, the 1st Beast (vs 1-11) seems to have great military might (vs 4), the 2nd Beast (vs 11-16) appears to relate to the Anti-Christ (vs 11). Also see Daniel 11. Initially, I viewed the 2nd beast was the man of sin, currently from some research I am inclined to go with the first beast. Of course there will be contrasting views on this and I ardently welcome them. What are your thoughts regarding the man of sin in 2 Thes 2?

 

[Douggg]

Hi Readers,

Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2?

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved (2 Thessalonians 2:1-10).
​

Some Evangelists & Ministers associate the above to Revelation 13 -- there are 2 Beasts involved, the 1st Beast (vs 1-11) seems to have great military might (vs 4), the 2nd Beast (vs 11-16) appears to relate to the Anti-Christ (vs 11). Also see Daniel 11. Initially, I viewed the 2nd beast was the man of sin, currently from some research I am inclined to go with the first beast. Of course there will be contrasting views on this and I ardently welcome them. What are your thoughts regarding the man of sin in 2 Thes 2?

The man of sin claims to be God. Which of the two beasts in Revelation 13 will be worshipped? There is your answer.

 

[Jade777]

The man of sin claims to be God. Which of the two beasts in Revelation 13 will be worshipped? There is your answer.

Thanks for sharing Doug, yes I agree with you, the 1st Beast he is the one that is worshipped and 2nd beast "causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast' Rev 13:12. Most think it is the 2nd Beast the Antichrist.

 

[Douggg]

Thanks for sharing Doug, yes I agree with you, the 1st Beast he is the one that is worshipped and 2nd beast "causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast' Rev 13:12. Most think it is the 2nd Beast the Antichrist.

A prophet is someone appointed by God to be His spokesman to the people. The gift of prophecy may be part of it.

In the old testament, God ruled Israel from heaven through the prophets who's job it was to deliver to the people messages and teachings. A false prophet would be someone God did not appoint to be his spokesman.

In 1Samuel10:17-19, the people rejected God as their king and demanded a king like the surrounding nations (which God said they would do back in Deuteronomy). After warning them of all the negatives of having a man-king, God gave them their wish and told Samuel to "anoint" Saul as their king. So the kings of Israel have been anointeds by the prophets, to show that they are the one God picks for them.

The Antichrist himself at one stage of his career as "the prince who shall come" of Daniel 9 will be perceived by the Jews to be their long awaited messiah (anointed, as that is what messiah word in Hebrew means) because he will have appeared to them to come to the aid Israel, when Gog/Magog attacks.

One of the things that the messiah is supposed to do according to the RAMBAM (Maimonides, a highly thought of Jewish theologian 1100-1200 AD), which does have a biblical basis, is to fight the battles of God in defending Israel. That is what the Jews are looking for in their messiah.

As their perceived messiah, the Son of David, to be the king of Israel, the Antichrist will be partnered with the false prophet of Revelation 13, earlier at the beginning of the 7 years, who the false prophet will be the one who will anoint the Antichrist (like Samuel to Saul). The 7 years begin because the Antichrist will be the one who confirms the covenant "for" 7 years.

The 7 years are actually in the bible, a law Moses laid down in Deuteronomy 31:10-11, which confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant, by commemoratively reading his instructions to Joshua to go in and possess the land. The 7 years is a cycle, that is why it says confirms the covenant with many "for" 7 years in Daniel 9:26-27. Hasn't been done for 2000 years because the muslims control the temple mount.

Of course, the Antichrist, the man of sin, son of perdition (called that because he will betray Israel, just like Judas betrayed Jesus) reveals himself by claiming to be God. He is the man of sin because he will have been secretively into the occult drawing upon powers from the dark side.

In your study, it is important to build a profile of the Antichrist. He will be stern faced, have a huge ego to fancey himself as the messiah (but is the one Jesus said to Nicodemus the Jews would embrace coming in his own name (his ego), i.e. someone God did not send to be their king), and will be heavily into the occult, seeking power from the dark side (Daniel 8, understanding dark sentences, and into "craft").

I wrote more about the Antichrist in my posts, #97 and #117, to Phobe in this thread link on the 42 months, if you are working on a start to finish end times scenario. A lot of good information in those posts. As it seem you are on the right path, using good rationale.

I use in those posts the same sort of rationale that you conclude that the man of sin is the first beast in Revelation 13.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7796293-10/

Also my post #73 in this thread, about the 7 years, being between verses Ezekiel 39:16 and 17.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7797181-8/

 

[daq]

"Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition?"

Judas Iskariot was a son of perdition as are all those of the like seed who enter into the holy places of the Father, (wheresoever the Son and his disciples may be) giving Messiah "kisses on the cheek" as if they were Ephraim kissing the calves. They enter into fellowship with the believers feigning repentance, humility, love, and discipleship, while all the while it is in truth their own secret "thirty pieces of silver", (meaning their own gain) which they seek because in the end they are proven betrayers of the Father, the Son, and the faith.

 

[sinning machine]

You and me

 

[daq]

You and me

If your right eye is utterly darkened then pluck him out and cast him from you.
If your right arm is clean dried up then cut him off and cast him from you. (Zechariah 11:17)

 

[Jade777]

A prophet is someone appointed by God to be His spokesman to the people. The gift of prophecy may be part of it.

In the old testament, God ruled Israel from heaven through the prophets who's job it was to deliver to the people messages and teachings. A false prophet would be someone God did not appoint to be his spokesman.

In 1Samuel10:17-19, the people rejected God as their king and demanded a king like the surrounding nations (which God said they would do back in Deuteronomy). After warning them of all the negatives of having a man-king, God gave them their wish and told Samuel to "anoint" Saul as their king. So the kings of Israel have been anointeds by the prophets, to show that they are the one God picks for them.

The Antichrist himself at one stage of his career as "the prince who shall come" of Daniel 9 will be perceived by the Jews to be their long awaited messiah (anointed, as that is what messiah word in Hebrew means) because he will have appeared to them to come to the aid Israel, when Gog/Magog attacks.

One of the things that the messiah is supposed to do according to the RAMBAM (Maimonides, a highly thought of Jewish theologian 1100-1200 AD), which does have a biblical basis, is to fight the battles of God in defending Israel. That is what the Jews are looking for in their messiah.

As their perceived messiah, the Son of David, to be the king of Israel, the Antichrist will be partnered with the false prophet of Revelation 13, earlier at the beginning of the 7 years, who the false prophet will be the one who will anoint the Antichrist (like Samuel to Saul). The 7 years begin because the Antichrist will be the one who confirms the covenant "for" 7 years.

The 7 years are actually in the bible, a law Moses laid down in Deuteronomy 31:10-11, which confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant, by commemoratively reading his instructions to Joshua to go in and possess the land. The 7 years is a cycle, that is why it says confirms the covenant with many "for" 7 years in Daniel 9:26-27. Hasn't been done for 2000 years because the muslims control the temple mount.

Of course, the Antichrist, the man of sin, son of perdition (called that because he will betray Israel, just like Judas betrayed Jesus) reveals himself by claiming to be God. He is the man of sin because he will have been secretively into the occult drawing upon powers from the dark side.

In your study, it is important to build a profile of the Antichrist. He will be stern faced, have a huge ego to fancey himself as the messiah (but is the one Jesus said to Nicodemus the Jews would embrace coming in his own name (his ego), i.e. someone God did not send to be their king), and will be heavily into the occult, seeking power from the dark side (Daniel 8, understanding dark sentences, and into "craft").

I wrote more about the Antichrist in my posts, #97 and #117, to Phobe in this thread link on the 42 months, if you are working on a start to finish end times scenario. A lot of good information in those posts. As it seem you are on the right path, using good rationale.

I use in those posts the same sort of rationale that you conclude that the man of sin is the first beast in Revelation 13.

Also my post #73 in this thread, about the 7 years, being between verses Ezekiel 39:16 and 17.

The links were eliminated in your post above as I can't post with them yet. Thank you for your knowledge in this, I appreciate it. Yes I agree with the false prophet part and that prophets anointed Kings.



I can agree that “the people of the prince who is to come” is the 1st Beast but not as the antichrist. That is interesting the Jews perceiving him as their Messiah -- deceiving them, it does seem to fit with the Antichrist part. I’ll keep that in mind. It is probable that it is Gog & Magog that are coming to Israel’s aid, as they are the ones that fight against the Beast and his allies Jeremiah 50:41-43, Dan 11:44, Rev 20:8, Rev 16:12-16. Gog & Magog (east and north) scholars refer to them as Russia and China.

I agree the first beast is the one who confirms the covenant at the beginning of 7 years but he will break the covenant deal in the middle of the 7 years. If you could please clarify are you stating the false prophet is the 2nd beast “the one who will anoint the Antichrist?” I may have misconstrued your interpretation or I have a mental block lol. I think the false prophet and the antichrist is the same individual one beast, also it seems you indicate at the onset of your post. Correct me if I'm wrong, just trying to comprehend your perspective on this.

Yes I am aware of the 7 year cycle that’s a good point, there is also a land rest and release of debts in the 7th year in Deuteronomy. An alternative way you can determine the one week in vs 26 as 7 years in Daniel 9 you could use a day for a year principle -- Numb. 14:34 “According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days, for every day a year, you shall bear your iniquity, forty years, and you shall know my displeasure” and Ezek 4:6. The covenant deal hasn’t been confirmed yet as far as I know, but will keep a watch on it.

Those antichrist traits are valuable additions and I concede it is important to build a profile of the Antichrist in order to ascertain the difference between 2 Beasts in Rev 13. Now this is the part that can be confusing. Both hold similar traits as they are a coalition only for a specific time but one will have clear dominance over the other, the distinction is the power authority and worship factors. If we examine relevant scriptures with 2 Thes 2 – the Antichrist-False Prophet profile seems to connect with the 2nd Beast: Rev 13:11-18, He had 2 horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon (definitely an antichrist trait), He exercises the authority of the first beast, he causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast (sounds like a powerful religious leader), he performs great signs, he deceives people (false prophet), he causes them to receive the mark of the beasts etc. Pertaining to the signs & wonders issue in 2 Thes 2:9 both Beasts perform these see Rev 16:13-18 (unclean spirits come out of 3 of them performing signs).

Now lets inspect the 1st Beast: Rev 13: 3-9 The dragon gives authority to the beast, they worship him, seems to have military power (“who is able to make war with the beast?&#8221, speaks detestable things against God, he makes war with the saints and overcomes them, he will be given authority over every tribe and nation vs 7, all who dwell on the earth will worship him vs 8... This 1st Beast is closely linked to Daniel 11:36-38 the King of the North, He will exalt & magnify himself above every god, shall speak detestable things against God. He doesn’t regard any god for he shall exalt himself above them all and vs 30 he shows regard for those who forsake the holy covenant, antichrist are normally religious but teach a false gospel this person clearly isn’t religious at all. He shall honour a god of fortresses, indicates military power. As for Daniel 8 looks like vs 23-25 relates to it.

I will check out your posts on Deut 31 and the link, thanks again for your feedback you have shed some interesting light on the topic .

 

[Jade777]

"Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition?"

Judas Iskariot was a son of perdition as are all those of the like seed who enter into the holy places of the Father, (wheresoever the Son and his disciples may be) giving Messiah "kisses on the cheek" as if they were Ephraim kissing the calves. They enter into fellowship with the believers feigning repentance, humility, love, and discipleship, while all the while it is in truth their own secret "thirty pieces of silver", (meaning their own gain) which they seek because in the end they are proven betrayers of the Father, the Son, and the faith.

Hi Daq,

Yeah I agree that he was, but an earlier 'son of perdition' -- John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[YeShallTread]

You and me

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I also saw the son as some evil and wicked entity, a beast or the beast, until I realized, as have you Sinning Machine...that we are the son of perdition. As such, we are the one that is lost.

We are that evil and wicked son who sits in the temple of God (the body of Christ...among believers) believing ourselves to be so holy, so righteous. We show ourselves that we are God.

Until...there come a falling away. When we realize that our carnal nature/old man is in opposition to God we remain that lost son. Once he/ourself is revealed to us and we acknowledge ourselves to ourselves we can crucify him. Then Christ lives in us.
​

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

 

[tranquil]

Hi Readers,

Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2?

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved (2 Thessalonians 2:1-10).
​

Some Evangelists & Ministers associate the above to Revelation 13 -- there are 2 Beasts involved, the 1st Beast (vs 1-11) seems to have great military might (vs 4), the 2nd Beast (vs 11-16) appears to relate to the Anti-Christ (vs 11). Also see Daniel 11. Initially, I viewed the 2nd beast was the man of sin, currently from some research I am inclined to go with the first beast. Of course there will be contrasting views on this and I ardently welcome them. What are your thoughts regarding the man of sin in 2 Thes 2?

The "man of sin, son of perdition" is not technically the "antichrist" (I wish this concept didn't exist because it causes a lot of confusion).

The phrase "man of sin, son of perdition" is actually referring to 2 entities. In general, "Death and Hades". Man of sin = Death ("the antichrist"). Son of perdition = Hades/ Hell (the "false prophet").

For example in Seal 4, we find a covenant with "death and hades". Also, like this passage:

When Ephraim spoke, people trembled;
he was exalted in Israel.
But he became guilty of Baal worship and died.
2 Now they sin more and more;
they make idols for themselves from their silver,
cleverly fashioned images,
all of them the work of craftsmen.
It is said of these people,
“They offer human sacrifices!
They kiss[a] calf-idols!”
3 Therefore they will be like the morning mist,
like the early dew that disappears,
like chaff swirling from a threshing floor,
like smoke escaping through a window. 4 “But I have been the Lord your God
ever since you came out of Egypt.
You shall acknowledge no God but me,
no Savior except me.
5 I cared for you in the wilderness,
in the land of burning heat.
6 When I fed them, they were satisfied;
when they were satisfied, they became proud;
then they forgot me.
7 So I will be like a lion to them,
like a leopard I will lurk by the path.
8 Like a bear robbed of her cubs,
I will attack them and rip them open;
like a lion I will devour them—
a wild animal will tear them apart.

9 “You are destroyed, Israel,
because you are against me, against your helper.
10 Where is your king, that he may save you?
Where are your rulers in all your towns,
of whom you said,
‘Give me a king and princes’?
11 So in my anger I gave you a king,
and in my wrath I took him away.
12 The guilt of Ephraim is stored up,
his sins are kept on record.
13 Pains as of a woman in childbirth come to him,
but he is a child without wisdom;
when the time arrives,
he doesn’t have the sense to come out of the womb.

14 “I will deliver this people from the power of the grave;
I will redeem them from death.
Where, O death, are your plagues?
Where, O grave, is your destruction?

Death is the 1st entity; "Grave" = hell/ hades is the 2nd entity. Death and Hades. These are the entities referred to in Revelation. The 7 headed beast, the beast from the sea = Death = the "man of sin".

Because the term "beast" can also refer to a king, what people generally call "the antichrist" can also function as the "stand-in" for the 7 headed beast. But there is a problem here: people want to say that this "representative" entity for the 7 headed entity is the "antichrist", but that isn't accurate. The 3rd beast from the sea in Dan 7 is the Leopard entity that defeats his other 3 rivals (there are 4 heads to the Leopard that is given dominion). This "new Antiochus" is the "antichrist". The 4th beast is Satan, who completes the line of 7 heads (1 for the lion w/ eagle wings, 1 for the bear, 4 for the leopard (new Antiochus ruling the lesser 3), 1 for Satan = 1+1+4+1= 7 heads. It is the 4th beast, Satan, the 7th head that gives new Antiochus his throne and authority.

The 2nd entity, the Beast from the earth, the "false prophet", = Hades/ "the Grave"/ the "son of perdition". This entity is the 8th king/ 8th head.

 

[Douggg]

I can agree that “the people of the prince who is to come” is the 1st Beast but not as the antichrist. That is interesting the Jews perceiving him as their Messiah -- deceiving them, it does seem to fit with the Antichrist part. I’ll keep that in mind. It is probable that it is Gog & Magog that are coming to Israel’s aid, as they are the ones that fight against the Beast and his allies Jeremiah 50:41-43, Dan 11:44, Rev 20:8, Rev 16:12-16. Gog & Magog (east and north) scholars refer to them as Russia and China.

Gog/Magog are the muslim countries and their ally Russia.

They do not come to Israel's aid. They attempt to destroy Israel. The Antichrist will appear to be coming to Israel's aid, at the time Gog/Magog attacks Israel. But before he arrives God will have already destroyed Gog/Magog Himself.

However, since the Antichrist will have intentioned to come to Israel aid, it will appear to the Jews that he is their long awaited messiah. They only believe he is for a short period of time, around 3 1/2 years.

The beast in Revelation 13 is the Antichrist in the last stage of his career.

There are four stages to the Antichrist's career, based on the code names used for him in the bible. He starts out as the little horn in Daniel 7 and ends up being the beast in Revelation 13.


It's all one person who goes through four stages. The four stages are:

1. the little horn - the Antichrist. (as he first emerges out of Europe)

Gog/Magog attacks

2. the prince who shall come - the Antichrist (comes to aid Israel, they embrace him as messiah)

3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition - the Antichrist (reveals himself as the man of sin, Israel drops him as their messsiah)

4. the first beast in Revelation - the Antichrist (slain and come back to life, worshiped as God, persecutes everyone who doesn't go along. Leads the world to try and stop Jesus from returning. Cast into the lake of fire when Jesus returns)

The Antichrist is one end times individual who will go through those four stages; from emerging on the world scene as the little horn to being cast into the lake of fire as the beast when Jesus Returns.

I agree the first beast is the one who confirms the covenant at the beginning of 7 years but he will break the covenant deal in the middle of the 7 years. If you could please clarify are you stating the false prophet is the 2nd beast “the one who will anoint the Antichrist?” I may have misconstrued your interpretation or I have a mental block lol. I think the false prophet and the antichrist is the same individual one beast, also it seems you indicate at the onset of your post. Correct me if I'm wrong, just trying to comprehend your perspective on this.

I hope my explanation of the four stages of the Antichrist's career, I just made, helps. The Antichrist is one person, who progresses through those 4 stages.

At one stage, the prince who shall come, the Jews will think he is their long awaited messiah. Yes, I am fairly confident that the false prophet, the Antichrist's side kick, will anoint him as the king of Israel, in the big charade.

The Antichrist will come out of Europe, being of the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans. The False Prophet appears to be someone born and living in Israel. There is a good chance that he will claim to be elijah.

Yes I am aware of the 7 year cycle that’s a good point, there is also a land rest and release of debts in the 7th year in Deuteronomy. An alternative way you can determine the one week in vs 26 as 7 years in Daniel 9 you could use a day for a year principle -- Numb. 14:34 “According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days, for every day a year, you shall bear your iniquity, forty years, and you shall know my displeasure” and Ezek 4:6. The covenant deal hasn’t been confirmed yet as far as I know, but will keep a watch on it.

I have talked to the Jews about the requirement of Deuteronomy 31:10-11 to commemoratively read Moses instructions for Joshua to go in possess the land, every 7 years.

They told me it can't be done in the present environment because it must be done, in the text from the place of God's choosing, which the Jews interpret to mean the temple mount - which the muslims control. And the muslims won't allow the Jews to even pray there, much less read something that God gave the land to them.

Those antichrist traits are valuable additions and I concede it is important to build a profile of the Antichrist in order to ascertain the difference between 2 Beasts in Rev 13. Now this is the part that can be confusing. Both hold similar traits as they are a coalition only for a specific time but one will have clear dominance over the other, the distinction is the power authority and worship factors. If we examine relevant scriptures with 2 Thes 2 – the Antichrist-False Prophet profile seems to connect with the 2nd Beast: Rev 13:11-18, He had 2 horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon (definitely an antichrist trait), He exercises the authority of the first beast, he causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast (sounds like a powerful religious leader), he performs great signs, he deceives people (false prophet), he causes them to receive the mark of the beasts etc. Pertaining to the signs & wonders issue in 2 Thes 2:9 both Beasts perform these see Rev 16:13-18 (unclean spirits come out of 3 of them performing signs).

The false prophet is likely to pass himself off as Elijah.

Now lets inspect the 1st Beast: Rev 13: 3-9 The dragon gives authority to the beast, they worship him, seems to have military power (“who is able to make war with the beast?&#8221, speaks detestable things against God, he makes war with the saints and overcomes them, he will be given authority over every tribe and nation vs 7, all who dwell on the earth will worship him vs 8... This 1st Beast is closely linked to Daniel 11:36-38 the King of the North, He will exalt & magnify himself above every god, shall speak detestable things against God. He doesn’t regard any god for he shall exalt himself above them all and vs 30 he shows regard for those who forsake the holy covenant, antichrist are normally religious but teach a false gospel this person clearly isn’t religious at all. He shall honour a god of fortresses, indicates military power. As for Daniel 8 looks like vs 23-25 relates to it.

The Antichrist is not the king of the North. The Antichrist will come from the West, the ten kings are ten EU leaders, not in power yet. The Antichrist-beast is the willful king of Daniel 11:36. He will be into the occult, and solicits help from the dark side, getting help in military strategy from some Satanic power he calls the god of forces, Daniel 11:38.

Near the end of the 7 years, the Antichrist-beast will be attacked from the other three compass directions, the king of the North, the king of the South, and the kings of the East. That will draw all of the armies of the world into the middle east - once there, totally unexpected the events of Revelation 6, the heavens peel away and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God, sickle in hand, to carry out judgement on the wicked men of the world.

That is when in Revelation 16:13-16, it will take the Antichrist-beast, the false prophet, and Satan to convince the kings of the earth, their armies already in the middle east, to unite and try to stop Jesus from returning.

 

[daq]

Hi Daq,
Yeah I agree that he was, but an earlier 'son of perdition' -- John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Hi Jade777,
The following is excellent advice and IMHO worth repeating:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I also saw the son as some evil and wicked entity, a beast or the beast, until I realized, as have you Sinning Machine...that we are the son of perdition. As such, we are the one that is lost.

We are that evil and wicked son who sits in the temple of God (the body of Christ...among believers) believing ourselves to be so holy, so righteous. We show ourselves that we are God.

Until...there come a falling away. When we realize that our carnal nature/old man is in opposition to God we remain that lost son. Once he/ourself is revealed to us and we acknowledge ourselves to ourselves we can crucify him. Then Christ lives in us.
​

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

 

[x141]

Hi Readers,

Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2?

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved (2 Thessalonians 2:1-10).
​

Some Evangelists & Ministers associate the above to Revelation 13 -- there are 2 Beasts involved, the 1st Beast (vs 1-11) seems to have great military might (vs 4), the 2nd Beast (vs 11-16) appears to relate to the Anti-Christ (vs 11). Also see Daniel 11. Initially, I viewed the 2nd beast was the man of sin, currently from some research I am inclined to go with the first beast. Of course there will be contrasting views on this and I ardently welcome them. What are your thoughts regarding the man of sin in 2 Thes 2?

Look no further than the image that stares back at you in the mirror.

Someone said build a profile, the profile started in the first garden as it starts in us.

Who helped build the tabernacle of Moses, and who provided timber for the building of Solomon's temple, and what beam is removed from the eye that seemingly the removing of helps build the house, or what was used to draw a son out of Egypt, both the first and the last time ... consider Nebuchadnezzar and the seven times that passed over him.

You cannot flee what you can not see.

Where this image is ... is as important as where you see it from.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Let's take look at this "mystery of iniquity" "man of sin" and son that is fixing to go into destruction (son of perdition).

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 we are told before the coming of the Lord there is to first come a falling away, and that man of sin shall be revealed. I believe this falling away pertains to a falling away from the faith, and also a certain point in time which pertains to the fullness of the Gentiles. But who is the man of sin? If we go back to Genesis 1:27 we see in the beginning God created man in his own image. We know by scripture that God is Spirit, and that He is the invisible God. So we know, and understand by this that God was not talking about an outward visible image, but rather an inward spiritual image.

Jesus told us to be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. So by this we see, in the beginning man was created in the image of a perfect God. With that let us go to Ezekiel 28:15 where the Lord is speaking to the evil one himself. The Lord said; "Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee. So who is the Lord talking to in this manner?

If you go back to verse 13 we see this man was in the Garden of Eden. Now some might think this is referring to Satan, but if you go back to Ezekiel 28:2 we see the Lord refers to him as a man. (Adam is man in Hebrew, aka mankind) The Lord tells this man, because his heart is lifted up, he has said I am a god, I sit in the seat of God. Meaning because of man’s pride he has lifted up himself in his own heart against the Word, and knowledge of God; and has put his own ideas over and above God’s Word. And this is just what the serpent told the man in the beginning; that he would be like God if he ate from the tree of knowledge.

This sitting in the seat of God means he has put himself in the place of God. And if we go back to 2 Thessalonians 2:4 we see this man of sin would exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. So what is the temple of God? In 1 Corithians 3:16 we see that we are the temple of God. And we see in 1 Corinthians 6:19 that our body is to be the Temple of the Holy Spirit, which is made for God to dwell in.

Also in 2 Corinthians 6:16 we see the Lord said he would dwell in this temple of our body. But we are also told in 1 Corinthians 3:17 that if any man defiles this Temple, him shall God destroy. This is the son of perdition, or son that goes into destruction. So in the beginning God gave us this Temple, or Body, so that He might dwell in all his children. But the fleshy nature of man gave in to sin, and decided he knew better than God; and so then the iniquity entered into man (man of sin), and man set himself up in the place of God.

We know by Romans 5:12 that by this first man Adam sin entered in, and by this sin came death; and this first sinful nature was passed on to all men. So we see the first state of man is to born to the flesh, that is to say he is carnally minded. It is written; to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Jesus said; that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. Showing how the first spiritual nature of man is flesh, and is carnally minded; but the born again man is made spiritually minded by way of God's Holy Spirit.

In Genesis 6:3 the Lord said; my Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh. It is this fleshy spirit that rules in the firstborn man. For in Galations 5:17 we see the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. So the Lord showed us in the story Noah and the flood, and the story of the Exodus from Egypt, how all the firstborn, and all those who are born of the flesh must die.

That is also why Jesus said; flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And that is also why he said that except a man be born again of the Spirit, he shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The Lord showed over and over in scripture how the first-born fleshy state of man would not be accepted of God. Just as with the firstborn Esau, who sold out his birthright over some red pottage to feed his own fleshy desire. And just as with Judas, who was a sign of that son of perdition, who would also sell out the Word of God made flesh in Jesus for his own personal gain.

So we see in all these examples the Lord has given us in scripture how all those who are still living in the flesh, which is the spirit of this world, or that Wicked; shall also perish.

For instead of accepting the knowledge that only comes from God by faith in his Word, they have gone about to set up themselves through their own carnal way of thinking. And the man-made fleshy church, which has gone and played the harlot with the ways of the world is no different. In Mark 7:13 Jesus told those hypocrites of his day; " You have made the word of God of none effect through your traditions."

Truly man has sold out the Truth over profits, and personal gain, and has even changed the Truth in order to justify himself in his own eyes. Truly they have turned the Fathers House into a den of thieves.

All those who are not anointed with the oil of the Holy Spirit, and are not washed in the blood of the Lamb of God, will go into destruction.

Romans 8:13; " For if you live after the flesh you shall die: but if through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

He who sits in the temple of God


We read in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”


Paul here is talking about the man of sin being revealed, the son who will go into destruction, who has “that Wicked” spirit working in him. Many believe this to be a single evil man figure is yet to come, but Paul clearly mentions this spirit working in many, and it “the mystery of iniquity already working”


2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 “ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

Note, in them, they, them, they all is speaking about more than one man. (but many)

But what about sitting in the Temple of God? I believe Paul was speaking in a mystery when he said this, as he was also playing off of other parts of scripture in order to do this. In Ezekiel 28:2 “Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:”
The Lord latter goes on to say to this “man” in verse 13 “ Thou hast been in the garden of God;” Now we know the Prince of Tyrus was not in the garden of God, but man (Adam) was. But the Lord later goes on to call this man the “covering cherub.” So the message is twofold.

The Lord is not just speaking to the prince of Tyrus alone, but to the spirit of “that Wicked” which entered into man (Adam) when sin entered into man. (man of sin)

So when you understand this sin nature of the devil is working in the heart of man, then we can begin to see what Paul was saying about this “man of sin” sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God”.

Paul also gave us clue to confirm this message in 1 Corinthians 6:19 “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

So our bodies are that temple God created for Himself to dwell in, but “that Wicked” spirit entered in, when sin entered in man= “man of sin”

And Paul goes on to say in 1 Corinthians 3:17 “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”


So whosoever has “that Wicked” spirit dwelling in them, (the temple of God) him shall God also destroy. (son of perdition) or son who goes into destruction.

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Douggg said:

The Antichrist himself at one stage of his career as "the prince who shall come" of Daniel 9 will be perceived by the Jews to be their long awaited messiah (anointed, as that is what messiah word in Hebrew means) because he will have appeared to them to come to the aid Israel, when Gog/Magog attacks.


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

the Prince who shall come is a prince of the people (Dan 9:26)who destroyed the temple in 70ad the Romans - he is a roman and will Not be looked upon as the messiah - Rev 13:6 tells us the AC blasphemys the God of Heaven...(the AC comes in peaceable (dan 11:24) and WILL be recieved by the Israelis because of the 7 yr treaty (dan9:27).

The new age is all about open luciferian worship... The Antichrist will Not pretend to be holy or the Christ or even God the Father.... He will come to promote lucifer (dan 11:39). The treaty of Daniel 9:27 is ment (by Satan) to replace Gods covenant....


In fact Rev 22:16 tells us Jesus is the bright AND morning star (BOTH) otherwise it would say "bright morning star"

now my kjv says in isiah 14:12 - how art thou fallen from Heaven o lucifer SON OF THE MORNING - now many bibles take out "lucifer" and"son of the morning" and Add MORNING STAR.... And when the AC comes he will say

"See the bible says the Morning star fell from heaven"

and then he'll say turn to Rev 22:16

"whose the morning star?". See it was Jesus who fell not Lucifer....

IMO I believe they'd then say Jesus was crucifed and that was it... The new testememt is a lie....Jesus isn't showing up take image and live or die and spend eternity in torment... (not at gods hands but satans)

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

The man of sin is Satan....


1. Daniel 9:27 tells us the Antichrist will sign a 7 year covenant - thus we will know who he is....(revealed)

2. 2thess 2:3 says he is revealed here when He sits in the temple as God.

3. Rev 17:10 tells us there are 7 kingdoms

5 are fallen - Egypt Babylon Medes/Persians Assyrians Greeks
1 Is - Rome - at time of Revelations writing
1 is to come for a short while - the Antichrist kingdom

notice there are 7 kingdoms but Rev 17:11 then says the Beast (Satan) is PART of that 7th kingdom and we see that at Rev 12:4

but 17:11 then goes on to say He is the Eighth....

Now rememeber I said above the AC starts out the 7 yrs with the agreement...

Both Daniel 12:7 and Rev 13:5 tells us he (AC) only continues for 42 months which is only the first half of the 7 yr agreement (trib) and then Satan comes at midpoint and sits in the 8th kingdom.....

The AC signs agreement and surrounds Jerusalem at the 42 month mark
then Satan takes the newly captured citys temple throne....

Just before this Satan has battle in heaven with the Holy angels (Rev 12:2) and then what?

Gets kicked out and comes down from heaven with his mighty angels...And takes his throne....


Hmmm just like Jesus does later on....

 

[Douggg]

Douggg said:

The Antichrist himself at one stage of his career as "the prince who shall come" of Daniel 9 will be perceived by the Jews to be their long awaited messiah (anointed, as that is what messiah word in Hebrew means) because he will have appeared to them to come to the aid Israel, when Gog/Magog attacks.


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:

the Prince who shall come is a prince of the people (Dan 9:26)who destroyed the temple in 70ad the Romans - he is a roman and will Not be looked upon as the messiah - Rev 13:6 tells us the AC blasphemys the God of Heaven...(the AC comes in peaceable (dan 11:24) and WILL be recieved by the Israelis because of the 7 yr treaty (dan9:27).

Here is what I wrote... "The Antichrist will come out of Europe, being of the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans. The False Prophet appears to be someone born and living in Israel. There is a good chance that he will claim to be elijah."

There is no 7 year peace treaty in Daniel 9. The 7 year peace treaty idea is a ingrained common notion, because the notable prophecy commentators were all unaware of the 7 years cycle in Deuteronomy 31:10-11 as confirming the mt sinai covenant, every 7 years. The experts were theorizing based on Daniel 8 that the Antichrist will destroy many by peace, therefore the covenant in Daniel 9, they theorize is a peace treaty.

Revelation 13 is the Antichrist in the last stage of his career, as the Antichrist-beast. In that stage, the Jews will no longer think of him as their King Messiah.

But earlier, in the prince who shall come stage, he will be embraced by the Jews as their messiah. The end times prophecies cannot be understood apart from an understanding of the Jews, Judaism, and what they are looking for.

The new age is all about open luciferian worship... The Antichrist will Not pretend to be holy or the Christ or even God the Father.... He will come to promote lucifer (dan 11:39). The treaty of Daniel 9:27 is ment (by Satan) to replace Gods covenant....

The Antichrist will be heavily into the occult early on. And will get drawn in even further. That he is "revealed" to be the man of sin in 2thessalonians2, means that his involvement in the occult will be secret until that time.

In fact Rev 22:16 tells us Jesus is the bright AND morning star (BOTH) otherwise it would say "bright morning star"

now my kjv says in isiah 14:12 - how art thou fallen from Heaven o lucifer SON OF THE MORNING - now many bibles take out "lucifer" and"son of the morning" and Add MORNING STAR.... And when the AC comes he will say

"See the bible says the Morning star fell from heaven"

and then he'll say turn to Rev 22:16

"whose the morning star?". See it was Jesus who fell not Lucifer....

I don't know if him claiming that will happen or not. Interesting thought though. The Antichrist beast is certainly going to spin it that he is God and that Jesus is not.

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

If you look at Rev 12:13-14 Satan goes after the Israelites...

Now go to matt 24:15-16 and see the AoD happens the Israelites are told to flee and they are chased at Rev 12:13-14....

Mark 13 and Luke 21 the same thing.... Flee to where?

To Daniel 11:41 where the hand of the Antichrist can't reach them - see the earth open for flood at Rev 12:15-16....


See how at the 42 month mark - middle of 7 yr treaty it's broke and Jews flee and for how long? Why the last half or 42 months (Rev 12:14)