Free Grace Theology - The theology that allows devil worshippers into heaven

[SwordFall]

Are you going to answer my question?

I don't believe in free grace theology. I'm simply scrutinizing your standing. If FG is unrighteous, shouldn't it also be unrighteous that Hell would be for the unbeliever rather then the actual wicked?

When you put them side by side, one sees that they are borne from the same inconsistency of grace vs righteousness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Gee, for most of my 73 years, I was taught ...
"in vain" means ... failure to achieve the intended purpose, a waste of time, not producing the intended result, etc.

Exactly! The REASON there is a "failure to achieve the intended purpose (salvation) or "not producing the intended result" is that either the object of faith isn't Jesus Christ or the purpose in believing was not what He promises; eternal life. Kinda like all the "prosperity preachers" who try to get people to believe in Jesus for a newer car, bigger house, promotion, etc, etc, etc. None of that will result in saving faith.

So…you were taught correctly.

However, lots of reasoning can have been employed to arrive at this failure. How one arrives at this failure is not the issue.

Sure, and not the issue. If the object and purpose line up with Scripture, you can be sure that one was saved.

Can you imagine that believing "in vain" reflected on God??? Yowzers. When someone believes IN Christ FOR eternal life, you can be sure their faith was the "saving" kind.

God ALWAYS saves those who believe IN Christ FOR eternal life.

BTW, saving faith (from God's free gift of grace-faith) requires NO REASONING! No one has any advantage over anyone else in "believing".

I have no idea what you mean by "no advantage over anyone else in believing". It sure isn't a competition, so I have no idea what you mean.

This puts everyone in the same category ... initial "belief" comes via revelation. Any idiot is able to receive a revelation of spiritual Truth from the Lord.

Hold on. Not those you consider to be the "non-elect". Remember, God didn't choose them for salvation, so Christ didn't die for them. And the reformed ALWAYS use 1 Cor 2:14 as their proof text that the non-elect cannot understand the gospel. Not that the verse says anything close to that.

BTW, are you deliberately attempting to deceive the brethren ... again?

Your question is a direct offense. What are you talking about?

If you have an issue, bring it up.

 

[AndOne]

I don't believe in free grace theology. I'm simply scrutinizing your standing. If FG is unrighteous, shouldn't it also be unrighteous that Hell would be for the unbeliever rather then the actual wicked?

When you put them side by side, one sees that they are borne from the same inconsistency of grace vs righteousness.

This really doesn't apply here tough - since the Bible clearly teaches that belief in Christ is the ONLY thing that makes a person righteous. There is no difference between Ghandi and the Satan worshipper since neither believe in Jesus. See Romans 3.

The Satan worshipper is just more obvious - since he demonstrates by his actions in life that he was never a believer - despite a bogus confession of faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I can easily prove from Scripture that "the crown of life" refers to eternal salvation!
The James 1:12 is just a good start.
Anyone interested? ... FG2 won't be.

Rev 2:10 is the other reference. Please proceed to prove that the crown refers to eternal salvation.

It is clear from Rev 2 and 3 that the various churches were offered rewards for faithful service.

So apparently you also believe that one is saved because of faithful service.

And you don't see "works salvation" in that??

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Scriptures I am referring to do NOT link the warnings/threats to any blessings or rewards!
Otherwise, they would obviously be discarded (disregarded) as proof against OSAS!

Please provide those clearly and unambiguously stated verses that do link warnings against loss of salvation.

Au contraire, SOME of the warnings/threats are DIRECTLY LINKED to dynamite …

What?! Does God blow up your salvation?

losing "eternal life", gaining "eternal death", going to hell, going to perdition, etc. etc.
(Anyone interested in these? ... FG2 won't be.)

I can't wait to see them.

All of which you have seen multiple times ... but have chosen to ignore!

What I ignore is what doesn't SAY what you keep claiming.

So, I am still asking you ... Are you trying to deliberately deceive the brethren?

Please explain yourself.

 

[guuila]

I don't believe in free grace theology. I'm simply scrutinizing your standing. If FG is unrighteous, shouldn't it also be unrighteous that Hell would be for the unbeliever rather then the actual wicked?

When you put them side by side, one sees that they are borne from the same inconsistency of grace vs righteousness.

You could've just said "No." Thanks anyway.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's okay if you don't know.

Ok, so you don't remember. It was you who was askin'.

 

[guuila]

Ok, so you don't remember. It was you who was askin'.

Okay.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Free Grace theology refuted:

Matthew 10:32-33 ESV

So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Seriously? Those who deny Christ will be denied by His Father. Very simple.

those who acknowledge Christ before men, will be acknowledged by the Father.

But, you have a problem. If you think this verse teaches that those who have believed and later deny Christ, just as Peter did thrice, won't go to heaven, then you have to accept that one's salvation can be lost. That would be an Arminian thing.

Free Grace theology rejects:
loss of salvation
limited atonement
unbelievers are unable to believe
God chooses who will believe
God saves apart from any condition
heaven is a reward
people in hell are paying for their own sins

Free Grace theology believes:
once saved (faith), always saved
unlimited atonement; Christ died for all, just as Heb 2:9 clearly SAYS
unbelievers are able to believe
God doesn't choose who will believe
God saves by grace THROUGH FAITH, the only condition
heaven is a gift, not a reward, which are earned, by definition
people are in hell because they do not possess God's life: eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I wonder if this person will be saved according to Free Grace theology:

1. Bob is a nine year old boy. Bob has decided to follow Jesus.
2. Ten years later, after having faith, being active in church, praying, evangelizing, repenting of sin, striving to live a Godly life, etc. Bob goes off to college and becomes "enlightened" by his Philosophy 101 class and decides Jesus is stupid. He still believes Jesus exists, but this class made him believe Jesus is a megalomaniac and he wants nothing to do with Jesus anymore.
3. Bob spends the next 60 years persecuting Christians and worshipping Satan. He even sets a church on fire and kills 200 Christians because he hates them so much and he hates Jesus so much.
4. Bob goes to prison and gets the death penalty for the crimes he has committed.

Did Bob go to heaven?

OK, since you seem to not understand my response to you before, you're going to have to define what "after having faith" means in #2.

Only then can your question be answered.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This really doesn't apply here tough - since the Bible clearly teaches that belief in Christ is the ONLY thing that makes a person righteous. There is no difference between Ghandi and the Satan worshipper since neither believe in Jesus. See Romans 3.

The Satan worshipper is just more obvious - since he demonstrates by his actions in life that he was never a believer - despite a bogus confession of faith.

OK, easy out; just deny anyone's prior faith if they fail to persevere. At least that removes the obvious blemish in the theology. Not that it does anything for reality.

The point of Scripture is that a person is saved WHEN they believe; not after a certain probationary period of time. It is immediate according to Jesus in Jn 5:24.

So, if someone believes IN Christ FOR eternal life, that is saving faith and God always carries out His promise. He gives them eternal life. So, basically, you are arguing that God will take away what He promises if one quits believing.

Yet there are no verses that teach such a thing.

 

[guuila]

Seriously? Those who deny Christ will be denied by His Father. Very simple.

those who acknowledge Christ before men, will be acknowledged by the Father.

But, you have a problem. If you think this verse teaches that those who have believed and later deny Christ, just as Peter did thrice, won't go to heaven, then you have to accept that one's salvation can be lost. That would be an Arminian thing.

Free Grace theology rejects:
loss of salvation
limited atonement
unbelievers are unable to believe
God chooses who will believe
God saves apart from any condition
heaven is a reward
people in hell are paying for their own sins

Free Grace theology believes:
once saved (faith), always saved
unlimited atonement; Christ died for all, just as Heb 2:9 clearly SAYS
unbelievers are able to believe
God doesn't choose who will believe
God saves by grace THROUGH FAITH, the only condition
heaven is a gift, not a reward, which are earned, by definition
people are in hell because they do not possess God's life: eternal life.

It's obviously talking about those who persist in unbelief. Not someone who made a mistake like Peter.

 

[guuila]

OK, since you seem to not understand my response to you before, you're going to have to define what "after having faith" means in #2.

Only then can your question be answered.

Believing in Jesus for salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's obviously talking about those who persist in unbelief. Not someone who made a mistake like Peter.

Ok, got it. Those who persist in unbelief after having believed will lose their salvation. Ouch.

How come I've never found such verses that teach that?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believing in Jesus for salvation.

Thanks. Of course ol' Bob will go to heaven. God promises eternal life for those who have believe in Jesus for salvation.

But apparently your view is that poor ol' Bob won't because he became a very bad boy, and deserves hell for his activities of late.

Did Jesus die for ALL the sins of those who put their faith in Him? Or,
Did Jesus die for ALL the sins prior to saving faith, and it gets dicey after that?

Or what, specifically?

I'm surprised that I'm arguing FOR eternal security against a Calvinist.

If your view does not accept the issue of loss of salvation, your posts have really been confusing and difficult to follow.

It seems very clear that your view is that if a believer EVER quits believing, then God yanks salvation from them. That's what I'm hearing from your posts.

 

[AndOne]

Ok, got it. Those who persist in unbelief after having believed will lose their salvation. Ouch.

I think this is contradictory. How can you persist in unbelief if you have already believed? If you have already believed you will not persist in unbelief and Romans 8:12-17 is clear that a believer will live according to the Spirit and not the flesh.

My take on it is that someone who persists in unbelief was never saved.

 

[AndOne]

OK, easy out; just deny anyone's prior faith if they fail to persevere. At least that removes the obvious blemish in the theology. Not that it does anything for reality.

The point of Scripture is that a person is saved WHEN they believe; not after a certain probationary period of time. It is immediate according to Jesus in Jn 5:24.

So, if someone believes IN Christ FOR eternal life, that is saving faith and God always carries out His promise. He gives them eternal life. So, basically, you are arguing that God will take away what He promises if one quits believing.

Yet there are no verses that teach such a thing.

Careful - don't want to address me directly - the new rules say not to.... (j/k this is going to get silly ..)

Scripture is also clear that in addition to eternal life God gives the believer sanctification. Certain things follow belief as is clearly pointed in Romans 7:12-17 (as I mentioned) as well as in James 2:14-26. I'm not saying that works bring about salvation - but salvation does bring about works and a Christian who doesn't exhibit any might not be in reality saved.

Also - there is no scripture that teaches specifically that a person who believes and then stops believing and then believes again was ever truly saved to begin with.

 

[guuila]

Ok, got it. Those who persist in unbelief after having believed will lose their salvation. Ouch.

How come I've never found such verses that teach that?

I never said they lose their salvation. Where'd you get that?

 

[guuila]

Thanks. Of course ol' Bob will go to heaven. God promises eternal life for those who have believe in Jesus for salvation.

But apparently your view is that poor ol' Bob won't because he became a very bad boy, and deserves hell for his activities of late.

Did Jesus die for ALL the sins of those who put their faith in Him? Or,
Did Jesus die for ALL the sins prior to saving faith, and it gets dicey after that?

Or what, specifically?

I'm surprised that I'm arguing FOR eternal security against a Calvinist.

If your view does not accept the issue of loss of salvation, your posts have really been confusing and difficult to follow.

It seems very clear that your view is that if a believer EVER quits believing, then God yanks salvation from them. That's what I'm hearing from your posts.

So devil worshippers go to heaven in Free Graceism. Thanks for confirming the OP.

 

[guuila]

1 John 3:9-10 ESV

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

I wonder if devil worshippers who burn churches and kill Christians are practicing righteousness or practicing sin... Hmm...