Free Grace Theology - The theology that allows devil worshippers into heaven

[guuila]

Positional sanctification is one being set apart by God for Him to "work on".
Progressive sanctification is one being "worked on" until he reaches holiness.
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I'm not talking about positional sanctification. I'm talking about progressive. Free Grace theology asserts that progressive sanctification is not required for salvation. Commanded yes, and a good idea, but not required for salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Exactly!

In my experience, the average disciple of free-grace theology thinks along these lines: "I'll consider doing some things the Bible commands regarding sanctification, as long as it doesn't prevent me from doing what I really want to do and achieve in this life. It's not really that important, because, after all, I have the security that I'm forever saved because I simply believe!"

I'm sorry for your experience. Those you describe are jerks who are forfeiting God's blessings for them and forfeiting eternal rewards in heaven. They are the ones the Bible warns about in 2 Tim 2:12. They will not co-reign with Christ, though they will be in heaven.

The same warning is found in 1 Cor 6, Eph 5 and Gal about "not inheriting the kingdom". Disobedient believers will be there, but have no "ownership" there.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I wonder if this person will be saved according to Free Grace theology:

1. Bob is a nine year old boy. Bob has decided to follow Jesus.
2. Ten years later, after having faith, being active in church, praying, evangelizing, repenting of sin, striving to live a Godly life, etc. Bob goes off to college and becomes "enlightened" by his Philosophy 101 class and decides Jesus is stupid. He still believes Jesus exists, but this class made him believe Jesus is a megalomaniac and he wants nothing to do with Jesus anymore.
3. Bob spends the next 60 years persecuting Christians and worshipping Satan. He even sets a church on fire and kills 200 Christians because he hates them so much and he hates Jesus so much.
4. Bob goes to prison and gets the death penalty for the crimes he has committed.

Did Bob go to heaven?

Do you believe that those who have faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life go to heaven or not? That is the only issue; not how badly they screw up their pitiful lives after having been saved.

You answered your own question in #2 above.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 10:32-33 ESV)

We've been over that. Please review it.

The real question is why you believe that one must keep their lives clean to be saved? Where do you get that from?

 

[ananda]

I'm sorry for your experience. Those you describe are jerks who are forfeiting God's blessings for them and forfeiting eternal rewards in heaven. They are the ones the Bible warns about in 2 Tim 2:12. They will not co-reign with Christ, though they will be in heaven.

The same warning is found in 1 Cor 6, Eph 5 and Gal about "not inheriting the kingdom". Disobedient believers will be there, but have no "ownership" there.

I believe instead that Messiah repeatedly warned that the disobedient will not be with Him in the millenial kingdom, or in heaven, but would be instead cast out into the fire, into outer darkness, etc.

For example, the parable of the fruitless branch, or of the good samaritan, the two debtors, the unforgiving servant, the prodigal son, the sower, the pearl, the growing seed, etc.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, it does. Look it up in a lexicon

Sure.

Acts 16:231
They said, “Believe (pisteuo) in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

pisteuō

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing

Please direct me to the line that includes the idea of obedience. Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm not talking about positional sanctification. I'm talking about progressive. Free Grace theology asserts that progressive sanctification is not required for salvation.

Unless there are verses that support the claim, it is nothing but empty.

Commanded yes, and a good idea, but not required for salvation.

Not even a "good idea" for salvation. Why? The command is only to God's children, not unbelievers. Makes no difference to unbelievers. Doesn't save them.

Anyway, I'm waiting for all the verses that teach that progressive sanctification is required for salvation. But I won't hold my breath.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe instead that Messiah repeatedly warned that the disobedient will not be with Him in the millenial kingdom, or in heaven, but would be instead cast out into the fire, into outer darkness, etc.

Those references do not clearly state anything close to loss of salvation, but are warnings about loss of contexual blessings and rewards, such as enjoying the wedding banquet (outer darkness). And being "cast into fire" was in relation to abiding or not abiding in Christ (Jn 15). Branches that do not produce (not obedient, not growing) will certainly not enjoy the blessings that the branches that produce will enjoy.

For example, the parable of the fruitless branch, or of the good samaritan, the two debtors, the unforgiving servant, the prodigal son, the sower, the pearl, the growing seed, etc.

You've painted with a broad brush. Each one has a specific context and lesson. They aren't all about the same thing.

 

[ananda]

Sure.

Acts 16:231
They said, “Believe (pisteuo) in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

pisteuō

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing

Please direct me to the line that includes the idea of obedience. Thanks.

Try Abbott-smiths' or Lidell's. Your reference (Thayer's) in points 2 & 2a also refers to fidelity, faithfulness, aka obedience.

 

[guuila]

Do you believe that those who have faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life go to heaven or not? That is the only issue; not how badly they screw up their pitiful lives after having been saved.

You answered your own question in #2 above.

Did Bob go to heaven?

 

[guuila]

We've been over that. Please review it.

We've been over what?

The real question is why you believe that one must keep their lives clean to be saved? Where do you get that from?

Where did I say that?

 

[Skala]

Do you believe that those who have faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life go to heaven or not? That is the only issue; not how badly they screw up their pitiful lives after having been saved.

You answered your own question in #2 above.

Believe, not "believed".

That's the issue that you dodged.

 

[ananda]

Those references do not clearly state anything close to loss of salvation, but are warnings about loss of contexual blessings and rewards, such as enjoying the wedding banquet (outer darkness). And being "cast into fire" was in relation to abiding or not abiding in Christ (Jn 15). Branches that do not produce (not obedient, not growing) will certainly not enjoy the blessings that the branches that produce will enjoy. You've painted with a broad brush. Each one has a specific context and lesson. They aren't all about the same thing.

It is written that there is no torment or weeping in heaven:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Rev 21:4

Therefore it is reasonable to conclude ... that those branches who are disobedient are cast out into the fire, or the unprofitable servants cast out into the outer darkness and end up weeping and gnashing ... must not be in heaven.

 

[nobdysfool]

Progressive sanctification is evidence that one is saved, not a means to obtaining salvation.

 

[guuila]

Well, that was fun. I'm glad the OP has been confirmed as being a correct representation of Free Grace theology.

 

[Skala]

Well, that was fun. I'm glad the OP has been confirmed as being a correct representation of Free Grace theology.

Yep. Some people on these forums believe satan worshippers will end up in heaven.

 

[extraordinary]

I'm not talking about positional sanctification. I'm talking about progressive.
Free Grace theology asserts that progressive sanctification is not required for salvation.
Commanded yes, and a good idea, but not required for salvation.

Aaah, butski, without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Next, OSASers will say they got lots of holiness when everything was imputed to them @ salvation.
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[guuila]

Aaah, butski, without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Next, OSASers will say they got lots of holiness when everything was imputed to them @ salvation.
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Okay.

 

[extraordinary]

Try Abbott-smiths' or Lidell's. Your reference (Thayer's) in points 2 & 2a also refers to fidelity, faithfulness, aka obedience.

Aaaaah, Thayer ... In the Foreward to his lexicon, it says he was NOT a Christian.

IMO, no one who is not Christian can understand much in the NT.
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[guuila]

Aaaaah, Thayer ... In the Foreward to his lexicon, it says he was NOT a Christian.

IMO, no one who is not Christian can understand much in the NT.
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Poisoning the well.