The Book of Enoch

Lion King

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Shall we point out some issues with this text? Sure, let's do it. ;)

In Noah's day, men didn't worship false god's or have kings or lords over them. Calling the Most High "God of god's, King of kings, and Lord of Lords" would hold no meaning when He was the only God, King, and Lord.

Can you tell us when men started worshipping other gods?
 
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Stryder06

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So you do not believe that the idols made of stone and wood and metals which are discovered worldwide from before the flood, were made for worship by fallen men and fallen angels????

What idols would those be?

And angels are called "gods" -little "g", as in created. In Psalm 82; the counsel of the gods stands before the Most High God and are rebuked and warned to do what they were set over earth to do, lest they fall and die like Adam, the one prince/ruler!


God of god's is referring to Him as the one true God over every false god.

They are elohym, and individual ones are "el", and Adam was made to be the human being "god" under the Most High God, with the dominion of the earth given to him, even to all that is in the air and the sea.

Where does scripture say this?

So "Israel" was the secret name of the Son of Man who was to come, who was seen by Enoch, only, in heaven, and seen with God, who was God, hidden in mystery, whose name was secret and was to be revealed "to the elect", and who was to come, and who was the Son of Man and who was to come as God the Son.

Israel isn't a secret name of the Son of Man. Gen 32:38 - And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

That said, Enoch says "Son of Man" while Daniel says "One like the Son of man", and yes there is a difference.


That formerly secret name is "Israel" and was first invoked over Jacob, who headed the sign nation, and was invoked over Jacob as a sign of the adoption to come, into the New Man name, which Christ come in flesh will "write" upon [the regenerated flesh of], all the overcomers.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD/YHWH of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer [Kinsman] the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.



Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you orphans: I will come to you.


Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We who are dead in Adam are made alive and adopted into the New Man name, and as His adopted sons, we are restored to all that Adam lost, and will reign with Him, as His sons, which is what Adam lost in the fall; and we will be reigning from Eden above, where the throne of God made for the Son of Man is -as Enoch saw.

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. :confused:
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The way the book of Enoch is written sounds as if it were written from the perspective of someone who's already read the scripture, and not someone who was first to prophesy
Nope, all that was written about Christ who was to come was written there before Christ came in flesh, and when Christ came in flesh, the Book of Enoch was being read by students of God's Word.

Jude quoted from Enoch the prophet's prophesy of the coming of the LORD who is yet to come, in the opening section:

Dedicated to the Last Generation
1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. 2And he took up his parable and said- Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation,c but for a remote one which is for to come.
3Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them:
The Second Coming of Christ
The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling,
4And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, even on Mount Sinai,
And appear from His camp
And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens.
And all shall be smitten with fear,
And the Watchers shall quake,
And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth.

6And the high mountains shall be shaken,
And the high hills shall be made low,
And shall melt like wax before the flame.

7And the earth shall be wholly rent in sunder,
And all that is upon the earth shall perish,
And there shall be a judgement upon all men.
8But with the righteous He will make peace,
And will protect the elect,
And mercy shall be upon them.
And they shall all belong to God,
And they shall be prospered,
And they shall all be blessed
And He will help them all,
And light shall appear unto them,
And He will make peace with them.
9And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
 
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Lion King

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Do you have any that says there was idol worship before hand? I don't see any. So yeah, I'm not going to play that game with you again. You like to ask questions, but don't like to answer any.

So, we are all supposed to go along with you on anything you say just because you said so?
 
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Stryder06

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Nope, all that was written about Christ who was to come was written there before Christ came in flesh, and when Christ came in flesh, the Book of Enoch was being read by students of God's Word.

Jude quoted from Enoch the prophet's prophesy of the coming of the LORD who is yet to come, in the opening section:

Jude quoted Enoch. This does not mean that he quoted from "The Book of Enoch". Ever consider that what Enoch actually wrote was lost, and this book is a fabrication?
 
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Lion King

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To my knowledge there isn't any mention of idol worship before the flood. Of course if I'm wrong I'd be fine admitting that. Does the scripture say otherwise?

There wasn't any mention of adultery or theft either before the flood, does it mean it didn't happen?
 
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Stryder06

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So, we are all supposed to go along with you on anything you say just because you said so?

I don't recall saying that. Not even sure how you came to that conclusion. The OP asks a question, you know, the one you still haven't answered.
 
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Tzaousios

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There wasn't any mention of adultery or theft either before the flood, does it mean it didn't happen?

Lion King, be careful, you are stretching the limits of the literalist hermeneutic. If you become open to accepting the fallacy of arguing from silence, one could ask you what other things happened that aren't mentioned as well. :D
 
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Lion King

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Lion King, be careful, you are stretching the limits of the literalist hermeneutic. If you become open to accepting the fallacy of arguing from silence, one could ask you what other things happened that aren't mentioned as well. :D

Duly noted.
 
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PaladinValer

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Luther did not recognize the canon list made by men over a thousand years before his day, so the debate was not settled even in his day.

It was. An individual's opinion doesn't negate that of the group.

The Archbishop of Canterbury of 1611 cursed anyone who would not read the King James second canon list in the Church readings for the year, and nearly three hundred years later, the Archbishop of Canterbury cursed anyone who would read the second canon in the yearly Church readings!

I'd love to see proof of this. Otherwise, I expect a retraction.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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It was. An individual's opinion doesn't negate that of the group.



I'd love to see proof of this. Otherwise, I expect a retraction.

The Lost Books of the Bible - The Missing Parts of the King James Bible
A clear history exists of the inclusion of the Apocrypha in the King James Bible:

In the year 1615 Archbishop Gorge Abbott, a High Commission Court member and one of the original translators of the 1611 translation, "forbade anyone to issue a Bible without the Apocrypha on pain of one year's imprisonment".
I read that on a Roman Catholic apologetics website a few years ago, and I will find the source -when I have time; meantime, you may see for yourself the history of the power of politics in this matter of canon by doing a simple search:


Before the Archbishop of Canterbury of the time of the KJV 1611 Bible, the preface to the Geneva Bible stated this:
A decree from the Council of Trent in 1546 declared that any who “knowingly and deliberately rejects the aforesaid traditions, let him be accursed." Those traditons included the Apocryphal books. The ‘Preface’ to the Geneva Bible, published in 1560, stated that the Apocryphal books should be considered “as books proceeding from godly men they were received to be read for the advancement and furtherance of the knowledge of history and for the instruction of godly manners”. The Geneva Bible was in wide circulation in the Protestant Church of that day. Archbishop Gorge Abbott, one of the King James Bible translators, "forbade anyone to issue a Bible without the Apocrypha on pain of one year's imprisonment" in 1615.
·In 1880 the American Bible Society voted remove the "Apocrypha" Books from the King James Version. These 14 Books [There are 155,683 words in over 5,700 verses in 168 Chapters] of the Apocrypha had been part of the King’s bible since 1611.
·The "Apocrypha" was officially removed from the English printings of the KJV by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885 leaving only 66 books.
Why were books removed from Bible? - Topix
Luther, however, wanted a bible that agreed totally with his teachings. He disliked books in both the Old and New Testaments that disagreed with his teachings. He particularly disliked the New Testament Book of James, which condemned his teaching on Salvation by Faith Alone, and the Old Testament Book of Maccabees, which advocated Prayer for the Dead, and therefore could be used to justify the doctrine of Purgatory. He called the Book of James the "Epistle of Straw."
Luther therefore took the golden opportunity of his translation of the Bible into German to try to cut certain Books out of the Canon of Scripture. Of James he said, "I will not have him in my Bible in the number of truly principal works." He didn't dare remove books from the Bible entirely - that was too big a step for even him to take. What he did was to take them out of their accepted places in the Bible, and put them in a separate section, which he termed the Apocrypha. These books, he said, were not inspired by God, though they contained "many good sayings." (Luther’s Works, 35, 397)
From the Old Testament he removed the Books of Judith, Tobit, 1 Maccabees 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus and Baruch, as well as Esther and part of the Book of Daniel.
From the New Testament he removed the Books of Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation.
In fact his fellow Protestants balked at removing books from the New Testament, particularly since there was no other reason for their removal than that they contradicted Luther's views. The four New Testament Books that Luther had placed in the Apocrypha, were reinserted in future Protestant Bibles, along with most of Esther. But if Luther had had his way, Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation would not be in Protestant Bibles.
Seven Old Testament Books, however, remained excluded from Protestant Bibles. Initially the seven Books continued to be placed in a section called the Apocrypha. But since it was cheaper to print bibles without them, the seven books were slowly dropped altogether. By the 19th Century, the vast majority of Protestant Bibles did not carry the seven Books at all. Protestants began to get used to not seeing these Books in their Bibles, and to imagine that their Bibles were perfectly complete without them.
In this way Catholics came to have a Bible of 73 books, and most Protestants a Bible of 66 books. Perhaps it should cause some misgivings to Protestant readers that the number of books in their Bibles is such an ill-omened one in terms of Biblical Numerology?
The oldest existing versions of the Jewish Old Testament include the Seven Books. It is from these versions that the early Christian Scriptures were made. The best, oldest and most complete version of the Jewish Old Testament we know today is called The Septuagint, and this includes the books that Luther deleted
. ]
 
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WisdomTree

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I read that on a Roman Catholic apologetics website a few years ago, and I will find the source -when I have time; meantime, you may see for yourself the history of the power of politics in this matter of canon by doing a simple search:


Before the Archbishop of Canterbury of the time of the KJV 1611 Bible, the preface to the Geneva Bible stated this:

Interesting article. I assumed that the Zwinglian faction and later the Calvinist faction didn't completely agree with Luther in terms of the Biblical canon.

Another interesting thing to note is that Luther didn't think highly of the book of Esther, and what makes this interesting is that the book of Esther as well as couple of other books of the Old Testament, almost didn't make it to the Jewish biblical canon possibly during the so-called Council of Jamnia, 90AD.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Jude quoted Enoch. This does not mean that he quoted from "The Book of Enoch". Ever consider that what Enoch actually wrote was lost, and this book is a fabrication?
You never address the fact that Enoch was in circulation and read and studied by those who wanted to study the prophets when the LORD Jesus walked the earth in His New Creation human being body. His womb brother, Jude, said" Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam" wrote, ....and Jude wrote from what he read in the book of Enoch, itself.

The Book of Enoch which was in circulation and read, as history proves.
Even portions of many different copies of the Book of Enoch discovered in the Qumran caves date to the 4th century BC, and that was only the dating of the materials used to copy the ancient Book of Enoch, which has been saved through time as much as any Book of the Bible, because we do not have one single copy of a book of the Bible dating to as early as those Enoch copies, other than one pretty complete copy of Isaiah discovered in the Qumran caves which the Enoch manuscript copies actually date older than!
 
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