Are Gentiles Now a Chosen Royal Priesthood?

[HannibalFlavius]

Correct.

Just because one lives among wolves does not make one a wolf. It could influence behavior, however, if not guarding the origins of one's existence.

The scriptures quoted by HannibalFlavius clearly state "among the Gentiles", they never label any tribe of Israel "Gentiles". And they are speaking about guarding the origins of one's existence. To keep good conduct among the Gentiles.

Again, Here is the scripture.


9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

''Who hath called you out of darkness, WHICH IN TIMES PAST WERE NOT A PEOPLE, BUT ARE NOW THE PEOPLE OG GOD..

How in the world do you see anything but gentiles in this scripture?


''Dearly beloved , I beseech you as strangers, and pilgrims.''

Jews huh?

Just genius, I swear.

 

[sevengreenbeans]

''Dearly beloved , I beseech you as strangers, and pilgrims.''

Scattered Israelites.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Scattered Israelites.

Just after he says this? lol.


''Who hath called you out of darkness, WHICH IN TIMES PAST WERE NOT A PEOPLE, BUT ARE NOW THE PEOPLE OF GOD..

 

[visionary]

Just after he says this? lol.


''Who hath called you out of darkness, WHICH IN TIMES PAST WERE NOT A PEOPLE, BUT ARE NOW THE PEOPLE OF GOD..

Yeshua said, that He is sending His disciples to the lost sheep of Israel...

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Yeshua said, that He is sending His disciples to the lost sheep of Israel...

I believe the coming of Pentecost changed the focus on gentiles, I know they were sent to Galilee, and I know a light was already seen in the land of Naphtali and Zebulun where it shows that God would finally have mercy on her who received no mercy.

I have already given the scriptures in Hosea enough times, so here are some others.

How is it that I could make a good replacement theory if I wanted to?

Of course, I don't believe in replacement theology.

Romans 2:29 He is a Jew who is one inwardly.
Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed.
Act 17 26 And he has made from ONE BLOOD every nation of men to dwell on the face of the Earth.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.



This is the covenant given to only Judah and Ephraim, it does not apply to gentiles or anyone else.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Yahweh, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Yahweh:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Yahweh: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Yahweh: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Sovereign.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Sovereign; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a Elohim, and they shall be to me a people:



Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption.
What adoption?



What is the name by which God has given us gentiles?

Acts 15:14 ''Simeon has declared how God at first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people FOR HIS NAME.
''And with this the prophets agree, just as it is written ' After this I will return and rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen down. I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up, so that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the gentiles who are called BY MY NAME, says the Lord who does all these things.'' Known to God from eternity are all his works.
''Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the gentiles who are turning to God.,'' But we write to them to abstain from........Gentiles called by his name.




Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Yahshua sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Luk 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Mat 19:28 And Yahshua said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.(House of Israel and house of Judah)





John 11:52 Now this he did not say by his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, AND NOT FOR THAT NATION ONLY, BUT ALSO THAT HE WOULD GATHER TOGETHER IN ONE THE CHILDREN OF GOD WHO WERE SCATTERED ABROAD.


Wasn't Jesus also sent to gather the lost sheep of gentiles?


Isn't implied in many places that we have obtained the same promise given to Judah and Ephraim,'' I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the House of Judah.''

I believe I fall under this New covenant that was originally given to Judah and Ephraim.

But Ephraim was lost, their kingdom and people sent into Assyria, and Samaritans living in their houses while they were gone.


What I believe does not replace anyone, any Jew, any where.

I believe I am simply a loyal true servant to the unbelieving Jew.


He has had brothers living next to him for thousands of years who hated him and treated him wrong, But I will be loyal, even if not accepted, I will be a true brother to him where a Samaritan was not.

I believe there is a natural Israel but also a spiritual Israel, I believe gentiles come in where a void was in Ephraim and I believe Paul explains this.

But I don't believe that a gentile should settle for just being called of ,'' Ephraim.''

I would tell him to go all the way and get the good name.

Which is of course___

 

[David Ben Yosef]

What I believe does not replace anyone, any Jew, any where.

I believe there is a natural Israel but also a spiritual Israel...

Of course, I don't believe in replacement theology.

Romans 2:29 He is a Jew who is one inwardly.

This particular passage is constantly wrenched from its proper context, and misapplied by Messianics and Christians alike, as a proof text that gentiles somehow magically become "Jews inwardly" or "spiritual Jews" which in turn qualifies them to inherit promises that were were given to the Jewish people alone. The biggest problem with that exegesis is the fact that the passage in question [Rom 2:17-29] is referring to natural born Jews, not gentiles.

(Romans 2:17-29)
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on Torah and boast about God
18 and know his will and give your approval to what is right, because you have been instructed from the Torah;
19 and if you have persuaded yourself that you are a guide to the blind, a light in the darkness,
20 an instructor for the spiritually unaware and a teacher of children, since in the Torah you have the embodiment of knowledge and truth;
21 then, you who teach others, don't you teach yourself? Preaching, "Thou shalt not steal," do you steal?
22 Saying, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? Detesting idols, do you commit idolatrous acts?
23 You who take such pride in Torah, do you, by disobeying the Torah, dishonor God? -
24 as it says in the Tanakh, "For it is because of you that God's name is blasphemed by the Goyim."
25 For circumcision is indeed of value if you do what Torah says. But if you are a transgressor of Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision!
26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the Torah, won't his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
27 Indeed, the man who is physically uncircumcised but obeys the Torah will stand as a judgment on you who have had a b'rit-milah and have Torah written out but violate it!
28 For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical.
29 On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.

It is crystal clear that Sha'ul is talking about natural born Jews, and the importance of them keeping HaShem's covenant with the heart, as well as with the flesh. It is absurd to suggest this passage is referring to gentiles "magically" becoming Jews.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

This particular passage is constantly wrenched from its proper context, and misapplied by Messianics and Christians alike, as a proof text that gentiles somehow magically become "Jews inwardly" or "spiritual Jews" which in turn qualifies them to inherit promises that were were given to the Jewish people alone. The biggest problem with that exegesis is the fact that the passage in question [Rom 2:17-29] is referring to natural born Jews, not gentiles.

(Romans 2:17-29)
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on Torah and boast about God
18 and know his will and give your approval to what is right, because you have been instructed from the Torah;
19 and if you have persuaded yourself that you are a guide to the blind, a light in the darkness,
20 an instructor for the spiritually unaware and a teacher of children, since in the Torah you have the embodiment of knowledge and truth;
21 then, you who teach others, don't you teach yourself? Preaching, "Thou shalt not steal," do you steal?
22 Saying, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? Detesting idols, do you commit idolatrous acts?
23 You who take such pride in Torah, do you, by disobeying the Torah, dishonor God? -
24 as it says in the Tanakh, "For it is because of you that God's name is blasphemed by the Goyim."
25 For circumcision is indeed of value if you do what Torah says. But if you are a transgressor of Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision!
26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the Torah, won't his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
27 Indeed, the man who is physically uncircumcised but obeys the Torah will stand as a judgment on you who have had a b'rit-milah and have Torah written out but violate it!
28 For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical.
29 On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.

It is crystal clear that Sha'ul is talking about natural born Jews, and the importance of them keeping HaShem's covenant with the heart, as well as with the flesh. It is absurd to suggest this passage is referring to gentiles "magically" becoming Jews.

Keep reading.

But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but God.

WHAT ADVANTAGE THEN HAS THE JEW? OR WHAT IS THE PROFIT OF CIRCUMCISION?

The only reason this is asked,'' What advantage then has the Jew?''

Because of the fact that he is saying a Jew is a person who is one inwardly and this is written to the gentile, to Romans.

There would be no need to ask the question if he was talking about the Jew alone.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

Keep reading.

I did, and I almost included Romans 3:1-2 in my last post because it only strengthens the position that Sha'ul is addressing natural born Jews, and not gentiles, but ultimately I decided it wasn't necessary to do so, because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for that position in Romans 2:17-29 all by itself. It's impossible that Sha'ul is talking about gentiles in that passage for a number of reasons.

There would be no need to ask the question if he was talking about the Jew alone.

It is a rhetorical question, which is a common literary device used by Sha'ul extensively. Anyone who is very familiar with the epistles of Sha'ul knows this full well.

I'll go over this passage in greater detail when I get some time on my hands this evening. Perhaps then you will understand the proper exegesis of the passage.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Keep reading.

But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but God.

WHAT ADVANTAGE THEN HAS THE JEW? OR WHAT IS THE PROFIT OF CIRCUMCISION?

The only reason this is asked,'' What advantage then has the Jew?''

Because of the fact that he is saying a Jew is a person who is one inwardly and this is written to the gentile, to Romans.

There would be no need to ask the question if he was talking about the Jew alone.

Whether he's writing to Gentiles isn't that important. To be a Jew inwardly you have to be a Jew to begin with. There are Jews who are Jews outwardly and Jews who are Jews inwardly.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

Whether he's writing to Gentiles isn't that important.

Sure it is for proper interpretation, but I understand what you are saying here. Hopefully a newbie won't get confused.

To be a Jew inwardly you have to be a Jew to begin with.

Exactly.

There are Jews who are Jews outwardly and Jews who are Jews inwardly.

And then there are the elect, who are Jews both outwardly, and inwardly.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Whether he's writing to Gentiles isn't that important. To be a Jew inwardly you have to be a Jew to begin with. There are Jews who are Jews outwardly and Jews who are Jews inwardly.

No you don't cotton picker.

He is flat out telling gentiles that they can be a Jew inwardly and why would he say such a thing?

0 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;


Dude, Jesus created a NEW kingdom, a NEW FAMILY, and he made the Gentile COHERE to HIS kingdom.

Gentiles have been called the seed of Abraham, the seed of Isaac, Gentiles are specifically told that we are part of Israel through Christ, through his redemption plan of salvations pertaining to gentiles and we as gentiles have become a bride of a Jewish man, even a Messiah, who will tell us now, that we are not the sons of the living God?


Why is this so hard to agree with?




We gentiles are called a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a chosen people who have become peculiar to God{His own chosen people}, we have been adopted by God, and we have been given names better than sons or daughters.

We gentiles have obtained our own choseness that stands right next to the chosen people of God AS EQUALS before God. Where there was a wall of separation, that wall has come down, and where only Judah and Ephraim had obtained a covenant, Gentiles have also obtained it through redemption of marriage being that we have a Kinsmen redeemer, and you want to act as if this isn't so.

Why?

I would think that everyone would want the whole world to become as one and all believers who believe in Christ as one family, but this isn't even close to being the case.

I used to be angry with Christians for not coming back to the roots of Christ, But in these days, I can see just how hard it is fought against.

Why in the world would a gentile seek Jewish roots?

Why in the world would a Messianic as yourself look down on any Christian who doesn't come back to their Jewish roots.

You obviously don't believe gentiles have Jewish roots or roots pertaining to the feasts and Sabbaths of God.

Why would the gentile come back to roots if they have no chance of being accepted EVEN BY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS?

I don't know where you got your gospel from but I'm going to tell you what the gospel is.

''There is therefore no difference between gentile and Jew.''

That's the reality that you need to grasp ahold of because what you are trying to imply goes against all truth in that Jesus came to save gentiles.


You should think about that thing, because Jesus didn't come just for you.

 

[yedida]

I did, and I almost included Romans 3:1-2 in my last post because it only strengthens the position that Sha'ul is addressing natural born Jews, and not gentiles, but ultimately I decided it wasn't necessary to do so, because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for that position in Romans 2:17-29 all by itself. It's impossible that Sha'ul is talking about gentiles in that passage for a number of reasons.


It is a rhetorical question, which is a common literary device used by Sha'ul extensively. Anyone who is very familiar with the epistles of Sha'ul knows this full well.

I'll go over this passage in greater detail when I get some time on my hands this evening. Perhaps then you will understand the proper exegesis of the passage.

We are adopted into the family of God, whatever you want to call that, or them: Jews, fish, Israelites, giraffes, whatever - that's what gentiles become when they are adopted into that family. Pretty simple actually.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Sure it is for proper interpretation, but I understand what you are saying here. Hopefully a newbie won't get confused.


Exactly.


And then there are the elect, who are Jews both outwardly, and inwardly.

It is not the proper interpretation, and frankly, it's kinda insulting to think we are that dumb.


It clearly talks about gentiles and there is no ifs and or buts except where you just don't want to believe it.


Just as I said to mpossoff.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIRT AND NOT IN THE LETTER whose praise is not from men but FROM GOD.

What advantage THEN has the Jew, or what is the prophet of circumcision?

MUCH IN EVERY WAY........BUT IT"S CLEARLY TALKING ABOUT A JEW BEING A JEW BECAUSE HE IS A JEW INWARDLY>

Just as Paul teaches about gentiles in Romans 9: even us he called, not of the Jews only , but ALSO OF THE GENTILES?
as he says in Hosea. '' I will call them my people who were not my people.''


At what time has God ever said to a Jew,'' You are not my people?''


Romasns 10: 19 I will provoke you to jealousy by THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, I WILL ANGER YOU BY A FOOLISH NATION>

HOW? by jealousy!

Again, Romans 11: 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the father.

FOR OUR SAKE.

Gentiles.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

We are adopted into the family of God, whatever you want to call that, or them: Jews, fish, Israelites, giraffes, whatever - that's what gentiles become when they are adopted into that family. Pretty simple actually.

The adoption pertains to the Jewish people.

(Rom 9:3-5)
For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertains the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God.


I am a gentile just like 99.9% of the people who post here, but I refuse to twist the Scriptures to my own advantage [not saying you are but many do just that]. The truth is the truth, and nothing can change that in the end.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIRT AND NOT IN THE LETTER whose praise is not from men but FROM GOD.

You forgot the verses before where Paul talks about physical circumcision. The only way a Jew can be one inwardly if he's a Jew to begin with, circ on the 8th day.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

It is not the proper interpretation, and frankly, it's kinda insulting to think we are that dumb.


It clearly talks about gentiles and there is no ifs and or buts except where you just don't want to believe it.


Just as I said to mpossoff.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIRT AND NOT IN THE LETTER whose praise is not from men but FROM GOD.

What advantage THEN has the Jew, or what is the prophet of circumcision?

MUCH IN EVERY WAY........BUT IT"S CLEARLY TALKING ABOUT A JEW BEING A JEW BECAUSE HE IS A JEW INWARDLY>

Just as Paul teaches about gentiles in Romans 9: even us he called, not of the Jews only , but ALSO OF THE GENTILES?
as he says in Hosea. '' I will call them my people who were not my people.''


At what time has God ever said to a Jew,'' You are not my people?''


Romasns 10: 19 I will provoke you to jealousy by THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, I WILL ANGER YOU BY A FOOLISH NATION>

HOW? by jealousy!

Again, Romans 11: 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the father.

FOR OUR SAKE.

Gentiles.

God never said to a Jew you're not my people, He said I will call them my people who weren't my people.

The mystery of the Gospel as Paul says that was hidden is that Gentiles are equal co-heirs of the promise with Israel in Yeshua. You don't have to be a child of Israel to be a recipient of the promise.

Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel THEREFORE Lord of the world.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

You don't have to be a child of Israel to be a recipient of the promise.

Bingo! someone give the man a cigar!

Thus, there is no need to twist the Scriptures to ones own advantage. However, there will always be those who are simply not content with being a "co-heir" and want to be the "sole heir." Even if that means they need to twist the Scriptures here a little and there a little. And of course, there are also those who wish to exclude the Jewish people from the promise, for whatever reason [usually anti-semitism].

I do believe you are the first person I've run into on a theology forum that actually gets this.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

God never said to a Jew you're not my people, He said I will call them my people who weren't my people.

The mystery of the Gospel as Paul says that was hidden is that Gentiles are equal co-heirs of the promise with Israel in Yeshua. You don't have to be a child of Israel to be a recipient of the promise.

Yeshua is the Messiah of Israel THEREFORE Lord of the world.

AS HE SAYS IN HOSEA DUDE!

THAT IS EPHRAIM"S PROMISE DUDE!!!!!

So you are agreeing with me?


HERE-I'll put the scripture up one more time, and please feel brave enough to stick with it.

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.


AS HOSEA SAYS ABOUT EPHRAIM!


Do you think Paul was confused when he quoted the promise of Ephraim's return?
You say it right there, '' THE MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL AS PAUL SAYS THAT WAS HIDDEN IS THAT GENTILES ARE EQUAL CO HEIRS OF THE PROMISE WITH ISRAEL TO BE A RECIPIENT OF THE PROMISE>

YOU QUOTE THE PROMISE!

''HE SAID I WILL CALL THEM MY PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE!


AGAIN, THIS IS EPHRAIM'S promise.

It is a promise to all gentiles, but that promise is of Ephraim's return and Paul is explaining that THIS is how gentiles are called,'' ISRAEL.''


Do you want to make the claim that this quote from Hosea is not about the promised return of Ephraim?

It is the promise given to Ephraim and I see that you do agree it is given to gentiles.

So where is the problem?

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

AS HE SAYS IN HOSEA DUDE!

THAT IS EPHRAIM"S PROMISE DUDE!!!!!

So you are agreeing with me?


HERE-I'll put the scripture up one more time, and please feel brave enough to stick with it.

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.


AS HOSEA SAYS ABOUT EPHRAIM!


Do you think Paul was confused when he quoted the promise of Ephraim's return?
You say it right there, '' THE MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL AS PAUL SAYS THAT WAS HIDDEN IS THAT GENTILES ARE EQUAL CO HEIRS OF THE PROMISE WITH ISRAEL TO BE A RECIPIENT OF THE PROMISE>

YOU QUOTE THE PROMISE!

''HE SAID I WILL CALL THEM MY PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE!


AGAIN, THIS IS EPHRAIM'S promise.

It is a promise to all gentiles, but that promise is of Ephraim's return and Paul is explaining that THIS is how gentiles are called,'' ISRAEL.''


Do you want to make the claim that this quote from Hosea is not about the promised return of Ephraim?

It is the promise given to Ephraim and I see that you do agree it is given to gentiles.

So where is the problem?

The problem is Gentiles are not lost Israelites. That's the mystery of the Gospel.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Bingo! someone give the man a cigar!

Thus, there is no need to twist the Scriptures to ones own advantage. However, there will always be those who are simply not content with being a "co-heir" and want to be the "sole heir." Even if that means they need to twist the Scriptures here a little and there a little. And of course, there are also those who wish to exclude the Jewish people from the promise, for whatever reason [usually anti-semitism].

I do believe you are the first person I've run into on a theology forum that actually gets this.

Gets what, that you two people are going around telling other people that they do not have to be Israel?

That is absolutely incorrect, you DO have to be Israel, the promises are not to anyone BUT Israel.

Who is twisting scripture?

I keep quoting scripture and you two keep denying scripture.

Just as the scripture says about gentiles being a royal priesthood, a chosen people, but what do you say?

Who is wanting to be ,'' Sole heir?''


All I teach is that gentiles have become co heirs in Israel and called Israel, and called,'' The sons of Isaac by the promise of faith. which we are taught, we are taught that we gentiles are of the seed of Abraham, and what are you two guys teaching?

Insinuating gentile wanna be Jews, and as if somebody is trying to replace Jews or be sole heirs.

Who here is saying that?

But you two guys saying to a gentile,'' You don't have to be Israel.'' is down right shameful and completely untrue.

If the gentile has not become the true Israel, he has a problem.

And what is the jealousy of this all that Jews don't want gentiles to be co heirs, that Jews don't want to become one body with the Jew?

It sounds like desperation when I give a scripture from Hosea speaking about the promise of the return of Ephraim and you guys beat around the bush as if I am making all this up.

As if Paul is not quoting the promise of Ephraim's return, how many times have I had to say that,'' The promise of Ephraim's return?''

Hosea had 3 children and went through a great deal to detail the exact thing that would happen to the restoration of the house of Joseph and this is no small subject as if I'm just goinhg to forget about it saying,'' OH WELL GENTILES ARE JUST IN THERE SOMEWHERE.''

Brother, we are adopted sons and to think that my adoption is any less a son than the real son is thinking wrong because I being born something completely different, I had to sacrifice to become what I am, whereas the Jew is born into it.

But nobody is going to tell me that I don't have to be Israel and to tell anyone that is dangerous, a dangerous thought of separation and the denial of Joseph and his gentile children himself.

If God has gone so far as to redeem the gentile children of Joseph, and that it has been such a huge mystery, are we just suppose to look over what Paul says in quoting Hosea and act as if we don't see it?

If he is saying exactly what I am saying, then he is talking about the restoration of Joseph, and he IS in fact quoting Hosea's promise to Joseph.


But you guys just continue to tell gentiles that they have no need to be Israel, we know what you mean by it.

In fact, I understand so well that I wouldn't believe either of you to be .............