Christ had nothing to with Christmas and its a pagan holiday?!? Nimrod related.

[Rev Randy]

<b>I did not notice that but you are right.</b>

The Church I belong to studies Scripture and skips the tradition.
​

It is better to laugh than to cry they say.

The way I see it, the biggest threat to the Church is not secular humanism, nor Islam; but self proclaimed "Christians" who make Christ in their image rather than we being made in God's image; then make the Church fit that image.

They decry the Papacy, yet they admonish the rest of us with their own infallible teachings more often and with more zeal than any Roman Pontiff ever did; in effect each one their own "pope". This is the church of Ego; the church of self.

Finally. A post of sanity in this thread.

 

[Rev Randy]

Some refuse to admit the interpretation horrors the competing traditions are guilty of, & that mess is what the Reformation tried to clean up.

At least you said tried.

 

[Rick Otto]

Finally. A post of sanity in this thread.

One man's Yugo is another man's Lamborghini.

 

[Rick Otto]

At least you said tried.

That's why I'm here.

...Just kidding. I wouldn't attempt more than putting a bib on the Church at this point. But thanks for the cred even if it was minimal.

 

[Rev Randy]

One man's Yugo is another man's Lamborghini.

I'm to robust for either. I have a Dodge. Just an ordinary average guy.

 

[Rev Randy]

That's why I'm here.

...Just kidding. I wouldn't attempt more than putting a bib on the Church at this point. But thanks for the cred even if it was minimal.

It wasn't meant as minimal. It was pretty profound depending on how one looks at it.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Finally. A post of sanity in this thread.

Thanks Randy, at my age, I'm grateful for a lucid moment here and there; from time to time.

 

[Eph4:26]

In practical terms, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

So what IF Dec. 25 was originally a pagan holiday? So what IF many of the accoutrements have pagan roots? People can be converted and redeemed, and so can days and symbols. So what if we choose to celebrate with feasting and gift-giving and frivolity? . . . It is for freedom that Christ set us free. Enjoy the liberty that is wherever the Spirit of the Lord is.

1. The daily cross (Luke 9:23) is dropped in favor of having a party for Mithra, who's birthday is accurately placed on the December 25th.

2. If the world loves the Christ-mass (Exodus 23:2), it hates the Jesus of the Bible (John 15:19).

3. God hates that is highly esteemed by men (Luke 16:15).

4. If you are not being persecuted by your family for righteousness sake, Jesus does not love you (Mt 19:29).

5. If you have a self-professed pagan, secular, agnostic, atheist on your christmas list, you are denying Christ (Eph 5:11).

6. The first christmas tree was in the garden. Satan gave Eve her christ-mass present and she was thrown out of the garden for it.

7. As it was at the time of Noah, so will it be at the end of time, few are going to strive for God. The multitude is going to twist the word of God in favor of having a party.

8. The christ-mass is spiritual adultry (Rev. 17:5). It throws God's Law out (Gen 11:4) and replaces it with the god of self.

9. There are 2 Jesus' in the Bible. One says 'Let's Party!' (hint -- wrong Jesus).

10. Saint Nickolas is a dead 4th century Roman Catholic Bishop.

and the list goes on, and on . . . .

 

[Rhamiel]

1. The daily cross (Luke 9:23) is dropped in favor of having a party for Mithra, who's birthday is accurately placed on the December 25th.

2. If the world loves the Christ-mass (Exodus 23:2), it hates the Jesus of the Bible (John 15:19).

3. God hates that is highly esteemed by men (Luke 16:15).

4. If you are not being persecuted by your family for righteousness sake, Jesus does not love you (Mt 19:29).

5. If you have a self-professed pagan, secular, agnostic, atheist on your christmas list, you are denying Christ (Eph 5:11).

6. The first christmas tree was in the garden. Satan gave Eve her christ-mass present and she was thrown out of the garden for it.

7. As it was at the time of Noah, so will it be at the end of time, few are going to strive for God. The multitude is going to twist the word of God in favor of having a party.

8. The christ-mass is spiritual adultry (Rev. 17:5). It throws God's Law out (Gen 11:4) and replaces it with the god of self.

9. There are 2 Jesus' in the Bible. One says 'Let's Party!' (hint -- wrong Jesus).

10. Saint Nickolas is a dead 4th century Roman Catholic Bishop.

and the list goes on, and on . . . .

1, Mithras is not a real person, he is a fake god, he does not have a birthday

2, that is about following people who do wrong, there is nothing inherently evil about celebrating Christmas

3, that verse is about God knowing the hearts of men and the fact that men can not fool God, it does not state that just because something is popular that means it is necessarily evil

4 wow that is so wrong

5 do you have any friends who are non-believers?

6 you are mixed up, the Christmas tree is a german invention that was originally meant to symbolize all the OTHER trees in the garden of eden, you know, the good trees that Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from
with this one you just seem to be looking at things REALLY simplistically
kind of like "that's a tree.... and that's a tree... they are the same"

7 the word of God is being twisted into a LOT worse then people just wanting to have a party

8 the Genesis quote you give is of the Tower of Babel and the Revelation quote you give is about Mystery Babylon... neither of these things have to do with Christmas
Christmas is not spiritual adultery, because it is to honor Christ

9 what is this two Jesus thing?
Jesus did make water into wine at a party... so He can not be THAT against parties

10, yep, he was a Bishop and a firm believer in Christ

 

[Rev Randy]

1. The daily cross (Luke 9:23) is dropped in favor of having a party for Mithra, who's birthday is accurately placed on the December 25th.

2. If the world loves the Christ-mass (Exodus 23:2), it hates the Jesus of the Bible (John 15:19).

3. God hates that is highly esteemed by men (Luke 16:15).

4. If you are not being persecuted by your family for righteousness sake, Jesus does not love you (Mt 19:29).

5. If you have a self-professed pagan, secular, agnostic, atheist on your christmas list, you are denying Christ (Eph 5:11).

6. The first christmas tree was in the garden. Satan gave Eve her christ-mass present and she was thrown out of the garden for it.

7. As it was at the time of Noah, so will it be at the end of time, few are going to strive for God. The multitude is going to twist the word of God in favor of having a party.

8. The christ-mass is spiritual adultry (Rev. 17:5). It throws God's Law out (Gen 11:4) and replaces it with the god of self.

9. There are 2 Jesus' in the Bible. One says 'Let's Party!' (hint -- wrong Jesus).

10. Saint Nickolas is a dead 4th century Roman Catholic Bishop.

and the list goes on, and on . . . .

So I take it you don't celebrate Christmas cause you wrongfully think we have a pagan party. That's odd as I don't think you've ever celebrated it with me. I assure you it does not resemble an office Christmas party. No lampshades on heads or an odd uncle hitting on everyone's gals.
If you have about two hours you can actually see what my Russian brethren do. It's not much different with the Greeks. It's definitely not pagan.

Eastern Orthodox Nativity ending with Traditional Carols | Fr. Nicholas Semkoff (1985) - YouTube

 

[Jipsah]

1. The daily cross (Luke 9:23) is dropped in favor of having a party for Mithra, who's birthday is accurately placed on the December 25th.

Secuse me, Eph, but how many people do you know who have actually heard of Mithra, much less hold a birthday party for him? It;s bad enough when your assertions are thin, but when they're patently false it really doesn't help your argument at all.

2. If the world loves the Christ-mass (Exodus 23:2), it hates the Jesus of the Bible (John 15:19).

Which may be why the World also seems to make that same argument that you do, that Christmas isn't really about the Advent of our Lord, but is really about some long-forgotten pagan thingummybob that almost nobody ever heard of and absolutely nobody cares a straw for. That when we sing "Joy to the world, the Lord is come!", we're not singing of our sovereign Lord Jesus Christ, but unwittingly (however that works) praising some nonexistent "god" worshiped by somebody or another many, many centuries ago. Yeah, you and the World have that all sorted out,yessirreebob!

3. God hates that is highly esteemed by men (Luke 16:15).

And thus God hates blue skies, green grass, the sea breeze, laughter, love, friendship, generosity, compassion... you get the idea. Wanna try again?

4. If you are not being persecuted by your family for righteousness sake, Jesus does not love you (Mt 19:29).

Flash: Your family believing you're a nincompoop doesn't constitute persecution. You may, after all, actually be a nincompoop.

5. If you have a self-professed pagan, secular, agnostic, atheist on your christmas list, you are denying Christ (Eph 5:11).

I don't, but your contention is still baloney and unsupported by the Scripture cited. And at least my atheist friends know full well, as some of my allegedly Christian ones aparently do not, that not only do I not deny Christ, that I can and do, hold up my end of the "Jesus Christ is Lord" argument pretty doggone well.

6. The first christmas tree was in the garden.

I'm sorry, Eph, but that contention is simply dumb, no matter how oft repeated. There is no parallel there at all, try as you will to make one. No worky.

Satan gave Eve her christ-mass present and she was thrown out of the garden for it.

And we go from dumb to mega-dumb.

7. As it was at the time of Noah, so will it be at the end of time, few are going to strive for God. The multitude is going to twist the word of God in favor of having a party.

As best I can tell this is generic tub-thumping, and isn't even supposed to be relevant to anything. It's a "See, I quoted the Bible" thing, where the hope is that no one will notice that it had nothing to do with the issue at hand. Nice try, though.

8. The christ-mass is spiritual adultry (Rev. 17:5). It throws God's Law out (Gen 11:4) and replaces it with the god of self.

See above. This isn't even trying. It's just baseless accusation.

9. There are 2 Jesus' in the Bible.

Really? Must hav missed the other one.

One says 'Let's Party!' (hint -- wrong Jesus).

Scriputre reference please?

10. Saint Nickolas is a dead 4th century Roman Catholic Bishop.

You'll find that most people who lived in the 4th century are dead now. Some suspect foul play, I think there's probably a simpler explanation.

and the list goes on, and on . . . .

I'm sure it does; interminably.

Here's the nub, Eph. If you don't believe that the coming of our Lord is important enough to celebrate, then ignore it with all your might. If you don't believe that the glorious Resurrection of our Lord, by orders of magnitude the most important event in the history of the universe, should be commemorated, then join the Jews and the Muslims and pagans and the entire unbelieving world in paying it no mind. It's your life, hoss, live like you want to live.

But for me and mine, we will join with the Church and the Heavenly Host in proclaiming the coming of Messiah, our Savior, God Incarnate, Jesus Christ, at Christmas, and shouting to the unbelieving world "HE IS RISEN! HE IS RISEN INDEED! at Easter, or Pascha, or Resurrection Sunday, or whatever it's called where we are.

You can draw your blinds, and plug your ears, and complain to the Lord to make us stop, but if we don't sing His praises, the very rocks will cry out to the Glory of God!

 

[Rick Otto]

On Dec. 25th it would be nice to hear from the rocks.

 

[Standing Up]

On Dec. 25th it would be nice to hear from the rocks.

There is that.

Aside from "doing the math" about prophecy fulfillment or forecast, it may matter little.

OTOH, there is something to be said for "cleaning it up".

 

[Standing Up]

Originally Posted by katherine2001

You've got that right. This explains why two people can read the same passage and come up with two totally opposite interpretations and both will swear that the Holy Spirit led them to their interpretation. Of course, there is a total refusal to admit that what you believe influences your interpretation of Scripture. Tradition helps us to interpret the Scriptures properly. Without it, you get the mess we have now. When you take the Bible out of the Church, then you are free to ignore the passages that you don't like because they don't support your beliefs. It is also okay to totally take things out of context if the verse taken out of context appears to support what you believe. By the way, everyone has tradition--some just won't admit it. Every denomination (including non-denomination churches) have traditions about how the Scriptures are to be interpreted. Some just refuse to admit that because to them "Tradition" is a horrible thing.
​

Spot on. Just look at RC and EO and their varying doctrinal opinions. Thankfully they have tradition to sort it out. But no, that doesn't help them either.

Anyway, back to the thread topic---try to respond to the discussion, rather than talk about the person, as if there's any point to be made.

She was not talking about the "person." That tactic won't work here. Rather, she was describing a certain methodology or practice, and made an effective point at that. Why are you trying to conflate person and methodology?

She did. See the word person/people. Run, spot, run.

 

[Standing Up]

Secuse me, Eph, but how many people do you know who have actually heard of Mithra, much less hold a birthday party for him?-snip-

True enough. Some call it invincible ignorance. Resting the case.

 

[Tzaousios]

She did. See the word person/people. Run, spot, run.

She was not doing what you were making it out to be. Why conflate person with methodology? I am not running anywhere. What do you have to say to me?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm curious how Mithras can have a birthday when he wasn't born. I don't just mean he wasn't born in real space-time, but I mean his mythology. According to the mythology, he wasn't born, instead he emerged, fully formed, from solid rock.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[PaladinValer]

I'm curious how Mithras can have a birthday when he wasn't born. I don't just mean he wasn't born in real space-time, but I mean his mythology. According to the mythology, he wasn't born, instead he emerged, fully formed, from solid rock.

-CryptoLutheran

And another one bites the dust.

 

[Eph4:26]

1. The daily cross (Luke 9:23) is dropped in favor of having a party for Mithra, who's birthday is accurately placed on the December 25th.

1, Mithras is not a real person, he is a fake god, he does not have a birthday

I'm curious how Mithras can have a birthday when he wasn't born.

-CryptoLutheran

From the 'Roman Religions' entry of the Encyclopædia Britannica Online. Encyclopædia Britannica. "For a time, coins and other monuments continued to link Christian doctrines with the worship of the Sun, to which Constantine had been addicted previously. But even when this phase came to an end, Roman paganism continued to exert other, permanent influences, great and small....The ecclesiastical calendar retains numerous remnants of pre-Christian festivals&#8212;notably Christmas, which blends elements including both the feast of the Saturnalia and the birthday of Mithra."

"the Mithraic Mysteries had no public ceremonies of its own. The festival of natalis Invicti [Birth of the Unconquerable (Sun)], held on 25 December, was a general festival of the Sun, and by no means specific to the Mysteries of Mithras".

Clauss, Manfred. Mithras: Kult und Mysterien. München: Beck, 1990, p. 70.

. . . how many people do you know who have actually heard of Mithra, much less hold a birthday party for him?

If I understand you correctly, you are asking, 'who cares about the ancient past?'. Christians should very much care about the evolution of the Church throughout history. When paganism fornicates with Christianity, false doctrine is spawned.

Which brings to mind, brainwashing is define as STIMULUS -> RESPONSE. What is missing between the two is a QUESTION. The QUESTION is, 'what was significant about the middle of the fourth century that the Church in Rome needed to adopt a new holiday around the winter solstice?

 

[Rick Otto]

She was not doing what you were making it out to be. Why conflate person with methodology? I am not running anywhere. What do you have to say to me?

You are running away from the truth.
Her whole post is an ad hom on Protestants, clumsy as an attempt it may be.
Protestants are a mess interpreting scripture wrong because 'they refuse to admit that what they believe influences their interpretation'...
I've never heard that nonsense from or about any Prot or Catholic making serious comment. It's a problem for everyone.
That was an ordinary reaction against what is an emotional attatchment, not an endorsement or defense of either side of her schizmed tradition that is supposed to help. Leads me to wonder just how ineffective traditionalists think the Holy Spirit is and how much rigid conformity it would take before the "mess" was considered clean. Obviously the RCC/EO split took a back seat once the common enemy of Reformation arrived.
But that neither resolves or excuses the schism.
Attention is diverted from their own "mess" of different interpretations.