Talk of possible war with Syria.

[ebedmelech]

Amen.

The end time events prophesied in the Bible begin with a general collapse of government throughout the Roman world. We see that developing now. We have already seen such a collapse in the former USSR, and the same thing that destroyed it is being done in both Europe and the USA.

There will indeed be wars in the middle east, but until we see a widespread collapse of governments and the rise of ten kings (today we call them dictators) the end time events have not yet begun to unfold.

This is true whether the rapture is before or after these events.

Well...I can't say that I agree with that viewpoint because this is something we've seen in our time with many governments, or kingdoms, or empires.

I believe God prophesied through Daniel about four kingdoms...Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. Rome is the last kingodom and were used by the Jews to crucify our Lord. Jesus came in "THE FULLNESS OF TIME". That's why God draws the line at Rome.

Rome was used by Jesus to fulfill Matthew 24 in AD 70. After that there is no need for God to prophecy any further kingdoms!!!!

Daniel 2:44 tells us that a "stone made without hands" crushes the image King Nebuchadnezzar saw...that stone is Christ.

Worldly kingdoms don't matter anymore! Christ reigns NOW over rulers, and authorities, and power, and dominions and EVERY name that is named.

This is why as we look at this world, all we need to do is maintain faith realizing that Christ holds the reign and He will return. We only need occupy til He comes!

 

[bibletruth469]

***I am in no way trying to set dates, just thinking outloud and getting people's opinions***

With all the talk about possible attacking Syria and with the Feast of Trumpets starting on Saturday the 7th, anyone find this interesting?

I personally find it very interesting ! God doesn't want us Christians just to shut our eyes and walk in the dark, however He wants us to occupy till He comes back. That means being a witness to others . We can witness to others by getting the gospel message out to as many as we can before He calls us home. It is a fascinating time to be alive!

 

[ebedmelech]

***I am in no way trying to set dates, just thinking outloud and getting people's opinions***

With all the talk about possible attacking Syria and with the Feast of Trumpets starting on Saturday the 7th, anyone find this interesting?

Nope...because all the feast days are fulfilled in Christ! None of this matters!

 

[tranquil]

***I am in no way trying to set dates, just thinking outloud and getting people's opinions***

With all the talk about possible attacking Syria and with the Feast of Trumpets starting on Saturday the 7th, anyone find this interesting?

Interesting, yes. Surprising, no. Here is my opinion: the US attacks Syria, Iran/ Russia retaliates, Israel ups the ante with a nuclear strike, then "terrorists" go at it full force, then who knows what. Throw in some aliens, diseases, etc and we'll have ourselves an "end of the world" to contend with. "Pope, save me" lol

Of course, this is just how things are orchestrated to happen. The people who run the world control Syria, Iran (remember the US/ CIA took it over in 1953?), Iraq, Al Queda, Russia, Israel, and the US. It's all entirely staged, scripted like a novel and we get to be the pawns in their warped machinations - they understand prophecy backwards and forwards in ways we could barely understand. Ever wonder why all this foot dragging? Why doesn't something ever happen? It's not supposed to go down until the timing is proper as per prophecy. So what's the timing?

As with most things dealing with dates, we've got to go to Daniel 9.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
​

The term “weeks” is translated from “shabua”/ Shavuot which has many definitions: 7, heptad, “weeks”, the Feast of Weeks (7 weeks) in-between Passover and Shavuot, and Shavuot the holiday itself. So, after 62 “Shavuot”/ shabua/ “weeks”, “messiah” is “cut off” or “makes a covenant” (H3772 karath). This event, whatever it means exactly, has already passed (it is most likely referring to the UN security council’s sanctions against Iran for its nuclear pursuits which were issued exactly on the 63rd Shavuot.) Counting from the creation of Israel on Nov. 29, 1947 and the subsequent 1st Shavuot that Israel would have celebrated on June 13, 1948, the 63rd Shavuot was at dusk May 18, day of May 19, 2010.


63rd Shavuot , MAY 19, 2010
64th Shavuot, JUNE 8, 2011
65th Shavuot, MAY 27, 2012
66th Shavuot , MAY 15, 2013
67th Shavuot , JUNE 4, 2014
68th Shavuot , MAY 24, 2015
69th Shavuot , JUNE 12, 2016
70th Shavuot , May 31, 2017


In the middle of this 7 Shavuot, the “anointed one” will break a covenant. Which party it is that breaks the aforementioned sanctions “convenant” is not clear to me (seems to be Russia or Iran from various news items at important dates –possibly Russia supplies Iran with missile defense). The middle of the 7 Shavuot (the 63rd through the 69th Shavuot) until messiah can mean a few things: the 1260th day would be Oct. 29th, 2013 and the middle of 7 solar years would be 1278 days, ending on Nov. 16, 2013. The 1290th day would be Nov. 28, 2013.


From Matthew 24, we get a pattern of events: an Armageddon type tribulation, then the sun is darkened, moon will not give light, stars fall, powers of the heavens are shaken, then the sign of the son of man, then the "rapture" (which in reality, is being gathered together in the wilderness, not a cosmic vacuum cleaner (the idea for which does exist for a reason).

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
​

Starting from the birth of Israel, the 63rd Shavuot of Dan 9’s 70 “weeks”/ Shavuot, May 19, 2010:


- Add 1260 days to get Oct. 29, 2013. That’s when the “tribulation of those days” is over. Assuming that this lasts for “ten days of tribulation” (Rev. 2:10), the distress of those days, this would put the start of this particular tribulation on Oct. 19, 2013.


Then the sun is immediately darkened thereafter on Nov. 3, 2013, with a rare hybrid solar eclipse (the moon is automatically darkened on that night since, by its nature, all solar eclipses happen on new moons/ at the beginning of the month in a lunar based calendar). The moon being darkened also seems to have something to do with NASA's new "LADEE" mission going off today which will go live around 60 days from now - ie just after the NOv, 3rd eclipse.



The stars falling refers partly to Trumpet 5, Apollyon, who has the keys to Hell (something hits the earth on Nov. 21, 2013 to kick off 5 months of Trumpet 5 to take us to April 21, 2014, the start of the 7 year covenant. (for more on this see this.) What’s the 7 year covenant? In addition to Israel/ Palestine, it is possibly this:

In their landmark January 2008 Wall Street Journal editorial, the Four Statesmen—George Shultz, William Perry, Henry Kissinger, and Sam Nunn—urged world leaders to chart a course to the elusive "mountaintop" of a nuclear-free world. They listed as one important step along the way the acceleration of "work to provide the highest possible standards of security for nuclear weapons, as well as for nuclear materials everywhere in the world, to prevent terrorists from acquiring a nuclear bomb." Following the Four Statesmen's roadmap, in July 2009, President Obama proposed a summit to challenge world leaders to "discuss steps...to secure loose nuclear materials; combat smuggling; and deter, detect, and disrupt attempts at nuclear terrorism."[1] As part of the broader nuclear disarmament goals he originally outlined in Prague, Obama convened this group to foster "an international effort to secure all vulnerable nuclear material around the world within four years."

The article is dated April 20, 2010. Add 4 years to get 1 day away from the magic date of April 21, 2014 as the start of the 7 year covenant that is “confirmed”!


Add 1290 days to get Nov. 28, 2013.


Add 1335 days to get Jan. 12, 2014, the “sign of the son of man in heaven”. Now, check this out from NASA …

Veteran meteor researcher Paul Wiegert of the University of Western Ontario has been using a computer to model the trajectory of dust ejected by Comet ISON, and his findings suggest that an unusual meteor shower could be in the offing.

"For several days around January 12, 2014, Earth will pass through a stream of fine-grained debris from Comet ISON," says Wiegert. "The resulting shower could have some interesting properties.

The earth will pass through Comet ISON’s previous path towards the sun, showering the earth with particulate and then we will see the comet as it is on its way out of the solar system. ISON’s particulate shower on January 12th, 2014 will function as Trumpet 1’s Hail and Fire, and the comet itself will function as Trumpet 3, the burning torch, Wormwood. What this means is that there is a Trumpet 2, a burning mountain to be thrown into the sea, in-between the “hail and fire” of Trumpet 1 and the “burning torch” of Trumpet 3. I assume that this is the Cumbre Vieja volcano which would, in the worst case scenario, hit the east coast with a tsunami in 12 hours if I remember correctly - this seems to go in tandem with the recent "FEMA III" alert for the east coast.



So, let’s just step back and try to put it all together. The time of “Jacob’s trouble” starts in the middle of the 7, the middle of the 7 Shavuot from Daniel 9, the 63rd Shavuot through the 70th, October 29, 2013 through May 31, 2017 (but remember, that there is tribulation before this middle marker of Oct. 29, 2013). This 7 year period is distinct from the 7 year covenant (the nuclear weapons treaty and/or an Israel & Palestine treaty in April 2014.) The 7 years of Shavuot 63 -69 is May 19, 2010 through May 31, 2017. The 7 year peace covenant, the covenant with Death and Hell, is April 21, 2014 through April 21, 2021.

Since Satan will imitate Christ, this pattern should hold up: a war will end on Oct. 29, 2013 (the 1260th day when Babylon falls), then the sun and moon will be immediately darkened – this is the Nov. 3, 2013 hybrid eclipse (all solar eclipses happen at the new moon, so by definition: the sun is darkened and the moon will not shed its light because it’s the new moon.) Then the stars will fall is a reference to Apollyon of Trumpet 5 falling on 11-21-13, the abomination of desolation on the 1290th day, Nov. 28, 2013, (a statue in dedication to a fallen leader), and then the sign of the son of man will appear in heaven (Satan imitating the sign of the son of man is Comet ISON) on the 1335th day would be Jan 12, 2014 which would do double duty as bringing the hail and fire of Trumpet 1 and then the “burning torch/ Wormwood” of Trumpet 3 is the comet itself in the night sky. The eruption of the Cumbre Vieja volcano would come shortly after the Hail and Fire – as it would be the burning mountain of Trumpet 2 – which spiritually means the fall of Babylon/ Lucifer, yet is materially expressed in different ways through the end-times.)

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 21:

I believe God prophesied through Daniel about four kingdoms...Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.

That's right.

In Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman Empire. The 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman Empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one confederation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman Empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist confederation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This confederation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist confederation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control over all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control over different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

ebedmelech said in post 21:

Rome was used by Jesus to fulfill Matthew 24 in AD 70.

Note that just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

Also, the end of Herod's temple building (also called the 2nd temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring to only the single 2nd temple building in the center of the Temple Mount (the building that contained the holy place and the most holy place), but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd-temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall, for it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple-complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd-temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

[ebedmelech]

That's right.

In Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman Empire. The 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman Empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7.

No...just no. The fourth beast was Rome and is no more. You're touting the typical "revived Roman Empire" line...I've been there, and was smart enough to read and realize that is NOTHING to do with today.

What we as saints of God need to realize it we can look at these things and realize there have been several "beasts" since Rome. In our lifetime Germany/Japan became a beast, the old USSR was a beast, and the USA is..and remains a beast.

A beast is typically a nation that Jesus has allowed to become the dominant power. The USA is quiclky diminishing it's beastly power.

Note that just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

I disagree. All of Matthew 24 has been fulfilled. We are in the era of Matthew 25.

Also, the end of Herod's temple building (also called the 2nd temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring to only the single 2nd temple building in the center of the Temple Mount (the building that contained the holy place and the most holy place), but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd-temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall, for it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple-complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Let's make this wrong just stating the "Wailing Wall" is not and NEVER has been part of "the temple proper"...so that's enough right there. It's part of a wall around the temple complex...IT IS NOT THE TEMPLE!! This view shows the "wailing wall" before it was destroyed, please notice where the temple is:

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd-temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

NO! Read it:
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
The "these things here" are the buildings of the temple..which don't exist anymore, and haven't since 70 AD.

Luke's account...Luke 21:5, 6:
5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said,
6 “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.

 

[JLB777]

Well...I can't say that I agree with that viewpoint because this is something we've seen in our time with many governments, or kingdoms, or empires.

I believe God prophesied through Daniel about four kingdoms...Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. Rome is the last kingodom and were used by the Jews to crucify our Lord. Jesus came in "THE FULLNESS OF TIME". That's why God draws the line at Rome.

Rome was used by Jesus to fulfill Matthew 24 in AD 70. After that there is no need for God to prophecy any further kingdoms!!!!

Daniel 2:44 tells us that a "stone made without hands" crushes the image King Nebuchadnezzar saw...that stone is Christ.

Worldly kingdoms don't matter anymore! Christ reigns NOW over rulers, and authorities, and power, and dominions and EVERY name that is named.

This is why as we look at this world, all we need to do is maintain faith realizing that Christ holds the reign and He will return. We only need occupy til He comes!

When Christ returns, THEN the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

Daniel 2:44 teaches that NO TRACE OF THEM COULD BE FOUND...

THAT IS FUTURE!!!


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

When Christ returns, THEN the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

Daniel 2:44 teaches that NO TRACE OF THEM COULD BE FOUND...

THAT IS FUTURE!!!


JLB

Nope. Here's your problem. You didn't use all of Rev 11...which is after Christ was resurrected. This is ALL of it...Rev 11:15-17:
15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17 saying, “We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.

Now...when did Christ begin to reign? That would be as Paul tells us in Ephesians 1:20, 21:
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

When Christ was SEATED at God's right hand, He began reigning!!!

That is all...

 

[Steve Petersen]

***I am in no way trying to set dates, just thinking outloud and getting people's opinions***

With all the talk about possible attacking Syria and with the Feast of Trumpets starting on Saturday the 7th, anyone find this interesting?

The Feast of Trumpets started on sundown Wednesday, Sept. 4. In the Diaspora it ends at sundown on Friday, Sept. 6.

Don't know where you got your information.

 

[Steve Petersen]

31 days til the arrival of elijah and revelaion 12 sign woman clothed with the sun

Will you be here on this forum when it DOESN'T happen?

 

[heavenlessstar]

Will you be here on this forum when it DOESN'T happen?

Shhh. Just let him keep climbing that latter and hope it doesn't tip over.

 

[JLB777]

Nope. Here's your problem. You didn't use all of Rev 11...which is after Christ was resurrected. This is ALL of it...Rev 11:15-17:
15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17 saying, “We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.

Now...when did Christ begin to reign? That would be as Paul tells us in Ephesians 1:20, 21:
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

When Christ was SEATED at God's right hand, He began reigning!!!

That is all...

He begin reigning from Heaven, AWAITING FOR HIS ENEMIES TO BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.

Revelation 11 will be past tense when it happens in the FUTURE.

Pretending that all the kingdoms of this world are being ruled in righteousness is foolish.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

He begin reigning from Heaven, AWAITING FOR HIS ENEMIES TO BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.

Revelation 11 will be past tense when it happens in the FUTURE.

Pretending that all the kingdoms of this world are being ruled in righteousness is foolish.


JLB

What's foolish is denying what Peter tells you in his first sermon at Pentecost, which is Acts 2:35:
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Jesus IS LORD!! He rules and reigns now! Just as Peter said.

 

[JLB777]

What's foolish is denying what Peter tells you in his first sermon at Pentecost, which is Acts 2:35:
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Jesus IS LORD!! He rules and reigns now! Just as Peter said.

Yes, He rules and reigns from heaven, UNTIL...

whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:21


34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' Acts 2:34

When Jesus Christ returns He will reign and rule from earth, and remove all the wicked and unrighteous and cast them into hell, THEN THE EARTH WILL BE AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

Until then, we occupy until He comes.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Yes, He rules and reigns from heaven, UNTIL...

whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:21

The restoration of all thing is after Jesus returns the reign to God. Rev 20 is judgment...and Revelation 21 is the restoration. So you're wrong again.

Even more Paul tells you Jesus reigns in heaven and on earth...so your view still doesn't work.

34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' Acts 2:34
Li

When Jesus Christ returns He will reign and rule from earth, and remove all the wicked and unrighteous and cast them into hell, THEN THE EARTH WILL BE AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

Until then, we occupy until He comes.


JLB

Nope...again futurism fails. Peter is making the point that David cannot be who the scriptures had in mind. Jesus made this clear to the Jews when he said in Matthew 22:41-45:
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They *said to Him, “The son of David.”
43 He *said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Until I put Your enemies beneath Your feet”’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.

You're still falling short.

 

[interpreter]

We should be fully willing to sacrifice, even our lives, for another person by putting ourselves in their place. We should realize who is in the wrong and preach and stand against their actions, but we should NEVER use deadly force, even against an "evil enemy." Jesus came to redeem that enemy of ours as well, and it is never our place to take his life. Instead, we should trust in the way God taught for us: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:44)

Every single person that uses violence thinks it's in a good cause, and it never is. You are not fighting against evil, you are giving into it. The good cause is sacrificing yourself for the sake of nonviolence and even for your enemy's sake (rather than you using deadly force, you allow him the option to either do so against you or repent). And there's no reason to fear that enemy using deadly force, since you always know that God will end your life exactly when and how He has planned for you.

We are commanded to slay the enemies of Jesus.

 

[JLB777]

The restoration of all thing is after Jesus returns the reign to God. Rev 20 is judgment...and Revelation 21 is the restoration. So you're wrong again.

Even more Paul tells you Jesus reigns in heaven and on earth...so your view still doesn't work.


Nope...again futurism fails. Peter is making the point that David cannot be who the scriptures had in mind. Jesus made this clear to the Jews when he said in Matthew 22:41-45:
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They *said to Him, “The son of David.”
43 He *said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Until I put Your enemies beneath Your feet”’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.

You're still falling short.

Your scripture has nothing to do with the subject matter.

Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, and He is reigning from Heaven, until He returns and personally destroys the Lawless One, who goes to the temple to proclaim himself as God.

It is a shame that you ignore the scriptures that teach the truth.

That is all you seem to be able to do is just disregard the truth.

Do you understand the word UNTIL?

Jesus came once, and will come a second time at the end of the age, and will destroy the false messiah and separate the sheep from the goats, as well as reign here on earth.

That Day is Future.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Your scripture has nothing to do with the subject matter.

Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, and He is reigning from Heaven, until He returns and personally destroys the Lawless One, who goes to the temple to proclaim himself as God.

It is a shame that you ignore the scriptures that teach the truth.

That is all you seem to be able to do is just disregard the truth.

Do you understand the word UNTIL?

Jesus came once, and will come a second time at the end of the age, and will destroy the false messiah and separate the sheep from the goats, as well as reign here on earth.

That Day is Future.


JLB

The referenced scripture has everything to do with it. Be as stubborn as you want but there is no future fales messiah. You're loaded with "Left Behind-isms"

Look at Ephesians 1:20-22:
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

That says it's now!

Do you need more? Try Colossians 1:17-20
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

You can try as you might Jesus has the reign right now His reign will end when He returns and renders judgment.

 

[JLB777]

The referenced scripture has everything to do with it. Be as stubborn as you want but there is no future fales messiah. You're loaded with "Left Behind-isms"

Look at Ephesians 1:20-22:
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

That says it's now!

Do you need more? Try Colossians 1:17-20
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

You can try as you might Jesus has the reign right now His reign will end when He returns and renders judgment.

Brother, have you forgotten that this thread is about possible war with Syria.

The reason is, the king of Syria has used Sarin nerve gas against its own citizens.

Does that sound like this country is in submission to Jesus Christ.

Wake up!

There are wars and rumors of wars everywhere.

The Jews are getting ready to build the Third Temple in Jerusalem.

What planet are you from anyway?

Preterism is a Heretical Doctrine that is likened to a cancer spreading throughout the body of Christ.

Here is what Paul said -

16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18

The Coming of the Lord for His people at the resurrection is FUTURE!


JLB

 

[Houly]

We are commanded to slay the enemies of Jesus.

No.. how do you get that from the NT? Christians, like Jesus, are to be lambs to the slaughter. Would you have encouraged Christians to kill Paul when He was an enemy of Jesus? Paul's many victims were meant to die at his hands exactly when they did, as saints, never resorting to violence. Paul, for many years an enemy of Christ, was meant to later come to repentance.

Your wrath-mindedness is based on a misinterpretation of one verse, Luke 19:27. That is the final line of a parable starting at Luke 19:11, and it is teaching how Jesus will deal with us AFTER He returns: ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’ (Luke 19:13). Firstly, He will judge His servants based on what they have done with what they were given (spreading the gospel, humbling and sanctifying yourself, etc.), since faith without works is dead (James 2:14). Secondly, the saints, alongside Jesus, will literally slay all of His enemies (either Revelation 19:19 or Revelation 20:9, depending on if futurism or preterism is right). The slaying of His enemies is NOT to be part of our works; their destruction will be after His return, and it is part of His judgment.

Please read every verse referenced here:

Amen.

Under the New Covenant, which Christians are under (Matthew 26:28, Jeremiah 31:31), Christians are commanded never to harm anyone, even in self-defense (Matthew 5:39,44, Matthew 26:52; 2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

Believers don't employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18). Instead, Jesus at his first coming set the example for believers of what they're to do when they're physically attacked by people (1 Peter 2:19-23). Believers are to go meekly like sheep to the slaughter (Romans 8:36), just like Jesus did (Isaiah 53:7). Obedient believers know that death is no loss for them, but gain (Philippians 1:21), as it brings their souls into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8), which is far better than remaining in this world (Philippians 1:23). During the future tribulation, believers will have to face martyrdom with patience and faith to the end (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), just as believers have always had to spiritually overcome in the face of martyrdom (e.g. Revelation 2:10-11). Obedient believers shouldn't fear death (Hebrews 2:15), and shouldn't love their lives unto death (Revelation 12:11b), but should hate their lives in this world if they're to retain eternal life (John 12:25, Mark 8:34-38).

Also, Christians are commanded to love their enemies (Matthew 5:44), and that means they must do them no harm (Romans 13:10a, Matthew 7:12).

We are to be as Christ Himself was during His 33 years. He set for us the perfect example of how to treat everyone.