King LLOJ goes out right away to search out the matter!You've must not study prophecy too often.
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:
but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
And God has already dealt with Israel. Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians in the 50's so his prophesy spans from that point not before.
The only evidence that your camp can produce is post-reformation while no pre-reformation evidence has been presented. This not a matter of how many people believed it but when they started believing it.
You have not. Presenting Israel as proof of apostasy after the Christian era is presenting the past not the future. You have no proof that a mass apostasy occurred after the Christian era, all of the verbs are future not present or past, and the current state of the churches do not prove a thing since the number of believers have not dropped drastically. Secondly, post-reformation churches merely represent a shift of churches not a shift to apostasy.
Right, and the church has fallen into apostasy since then, unless you believe the mass confusion and plethora of denominations is all apart of God's plan.
So it's only true if it's been believe for a certain amount of time? Gotcha.
You misunderstood me, Israel was an example of how apostasy can happen. I wasn't using them as an example of post crucifixion apostasy. As far as the church today not being an example, I'd beg that you look again. The number of people professing to be Christian is drastically different from the number of people who actually are. And I'm not sure what you mean by a "shift of churches". What's the need for a shift in churches if before that point the church in existence was teaching the truth?
Most mainstream churches believe the gospel of Christ. The differences that create denominations is theological differences not Gospel related. Your church is a perfect example.
The church has not fallen into apostasy because Christians are still Christians. Individuals have apostasy but not in masses.
lol No. I know you can read what I write.
How many people profess to be Christians and are not? You are making assumptions that you can't prove.
So opposing ideas are both true? Doesn't this make truth relative and therefore there is no such thing as truth?I disagree. If we're all teaching the same gospel it shouldn't result in different theological stances that result in different churches teaching different truths about the same God.
So opposing ideas are both true? Doesn't this make truth relative and therefore there is no such thing as truth?
This is not so,Your research is not complete. As I have shown you are basing your premise on post-reformation teaching and ignoring pre-reformation teaching....
History testifies to the following:Pagan Rome does not equal to Christian Rome. They are different "empires."
As I have already stated, there is no event that shows a mass apostasy from the apostles onward. ...
Not "could be", but prophetically, typologically even historically "is". This may be shown in a number of ways....Yes, secular Rome could be the iron kingdom.
They are both right, since the Iron Kingdom has several phases and even is still part of the very last kingdoms at the end, Daniel 2,7,8,11; Revelation 12,13,17, etc.Yes, some reformers stated that pagan Rome was the iron kingdom while some reformers stated that Christian Rome (after the 4th century) was the iron kingdom.
It was future from Paul's day, but already past in the days, of say, Martin Luther, Zwingli, Huss, Tyndale, Wycliffe, etc....The apostasy that Paul speaks of is a future apostasy that has not yet occurred but will occur when the restrainer is removed and the man of lawlessness is revealed. Neither has happened yet. All verbs in the passages describing this topic are rendered as future not past.
Were his Epistles written before the destruction of OC Jerusalem in AD 70 as prophecied by Jesus in the Gospels?Originally Posted by Hentenza
...The apostasy that Paul speaks of is a future apostasy that has not yet occurred but will occur when the restrainer is removed and the man of lawlessness is revealed. Neither has happened yet. All verbs in the passages describing this topic are rendered as future not past.
It was future from Paul's day, but already past in the days, of say, Martin Luther, Zwingli, Huss, Tyndale, Wycliffe, etc..