Revelation: The Bride, The Beast & Babylon

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Revelation: The Bride, The Beast & Babylon

The bride is Christ's Church; the ancient churches are the presence of Christ's church in today's world.

The beast is all the opposes Christ's church and kingdom; in ancient times it was the Roman empire with its state religion of paganism in modern times it is every political and philosophical system that opposes Christ.

Babylon in ancient times was the centre of worldly religions that sought to corrupt the worship and religion of the people of God. In Jesus' day it was Rome, in later times it has been many centres of such opposition, today it is the alluring secular city - saint Augustine called it the city of man which was opposed to the city of God.
 
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Stryder06

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The bride is Christ's Church; the ancient churches are the presence of Christ's church in today's world.

The beast is all the opposes Christ's church and kingdom; in ancient times it was the Roman empire with its state religion of paganism in modern times it is every political and philosophical system that opposes Christ.

False. The beasts depicted in Revelation represent a specific kingdoms.

Babylon in ancient times was the centre of worldly religions that sought to corrupt the worship and religion of the people of God. In Jesus' day it was Rome, in later times it has been many centres of such opposition, today it is the alluring secular city - saint Augustine called it the city of man which was opposed to the city of God.

Babylon represents confusion. In Revelation, because this is a message to God's people, it's talking about a system that causes confusion among them.
 
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Stryder06

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Hentenza

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Brother Hentenza, 2 Thessalonians "falling away" is indeed "history". The "falling away" [&#945;&#960;&#959;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#945;; apostasia, iow: apostacy] has already taken place... the "let" [hindrance] [2 Thessalonians 2:7] was the Pagan/Imperial Roman Empire... <snip>

2 Thess. 2
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [d]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

The apostasy is yet to happen and the man of lawlessness is yet to be revealed. This is prophecy not history. Also, quote mines do not help your case.


 
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That doesn't sound like confusion to you? ;)

It looks like what I said before and with which you disagreed.
Babylon in ancient times was the centre of worldly religions that sought to corrupt the worship and religion of the people of God. In Jesus' day it was Rome, in later times it has been many centres of such opposition, today it is the alluring secular city - saint Augustine called it the city of man which was opposed to the city of God.​
 
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Hentenza

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The false ones that drew members after them. I'm not speaking about any particular denomination in this case, but Paul warned of false teachers who would come after him, and in Revelation, Christ spoke about "those who say they are jews and are not".

There has always been a true church, and out of it came a false one. That's how I understand early apostasy.

There has indeed been false teachers and they have deceived many, but I am still at a loss about which is the false church that came from the true church.
 
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Stryder06

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2 Thess. 2
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [d]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

The apostasy is yet to happen and the man of lawlessness is yet to be revealed. This is prophecy not history. Also, quote mines do not help your case.

The apostasy has happened, and the man of lawlessness has been revealed. It was prophecy then. It's history now.
 
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Stryder06

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It looks like what I said before and with which you disagreed.
Babylon in ancient times was the centre of worldly religions that sought to corrupt the worship and religion of the people of God. In Jesus' day it was Rome, in later times it has been many centres of such opposition, today it is the alluring secular city - saint Augustine called it the city of man which was opposed to the city of God.

I disagreed with the idea that Babylon was Rome, or a secular city for today. The part that I copied I agreed with, and it explains why I believe Babylon represents confusion.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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One of those people was Clement of Rome whose letter remains extant. All he says is Peter was martyred in Rome. Nothing about succession from someone who should have known.

On Babylon as code for Rome, some posit it was Alexandria, others suggest it was Jerusalem itself.
It looks like what I said before and with which you disagreed.
Babylon in ancient times was the centre of worldly religions that sought to corrupt the worship and religion of the people of God.
In Jesus' day it was Rome, in later times it has been many centres of such opposition, today it is the alluring secular city - saint Augustine called it the city of man which was opposed to the city of God.
:)
During the days of Jesus, Jerusalem also had a corrupt wordly religion, and look at what happened to it in AD70 ;)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7570002-7/
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom[Jerusalem] and Egypt[Judea/Israel]

In Rev 11:8 Jerusalem is called Sodom because it is where, when Jesus died and arose from the dead He completely wiped out sin as He did in Sodom when He completely destroyed it by fire and brimstone. Analysis of the ashen remains of Sodom, which was rediscovered by Wyatt Archeological Research, has shown that this comparison is accurate since they could not reignite the ashen remains that they recovered from the site of Gomorrah.
Jerusalem is mystically called Egypt because when Jesus died and arose from the dead in Jerusalem He released us from the captivity of death as He by His power alone released Israel, which symbolizes Christians, from captivity in Egypt.
Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
Bro. James D Albright

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


The Destruction Of
JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible
PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF
CHRISTIANITY:



.
 
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Hentenza

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The apostasy has happened, and the man of lawlessness has been revealed. It was prophecy then. It's history now.

When did the apostasy happen and who is the man of lawlessness?
 
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Stryder06

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There has indeed been false teachers and they have deceived many, but I am still at a loss about which is the false church that came from the true church.

I do believe the reformers had an idea of who the false church was. But I'm guessing we're going to see this quite differently as I believe these events have already come to pass, while you think they are future still.
 
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Stryder06

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When did the apostasy happen and who is the man of lawlessness?

Sorry, don't have a date. I'd say whenever men started teaching doctrines of their own over the scriptures. Sometime around there. And I think you already know the Adventist POV in regards to the lawless one.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I disagreed with the idea that Babylon was Rome, or a secular city for today.
.
Both Rome and Jerusalem were confused, and why our bro Paul was sent to both :)


Act 19:21
When these things were accomplished, Paul purposed in the Spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, "After I have been there, I must also see Rome."
Act 23:11
But the following night the Lord stood by him and said, "Be of good cheer, Paul; for as you have testified for Me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness at Rome."




.
 
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Hentenza

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I do believe the reformers had an idea of who the false church was.

The reformers protested Rome and some even taught that the pope was the antichrist, and yet, the congregants of Rome did not apostasy and the pope did not turn out to be the antichrist.

But I'm guessing we're going to see this quite differently as I believe these events have already come to pass, while you think they are future still.

The verbs used in scripture regarding these events are future not past. I believe scripture. Secondly, you are yet to tell me who the man of lawlessness is.
 
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Hentenza

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Sorry, don't have a date. I'd say whenever men started teaching doctrines of their own over the scriptures. Sometime around there.

Around the 19th century? ;):cool:

And I think you already know the Adventist POV in regards to the lawless one.

No proven.
 
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Stryder06

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The reformers protested Rome and some even taught that the pope was the antichrist, and yet, the congregants of Rome did not apostasy and the pope did not turn out to be the antichrist.

If that's what you believe.

The verbs used in scripture regarding these events are future not past. I believe scripture. Secondly, you are yet to tell me who the man of lawlessness is.

They were future at the time of the writing. They are past now because they have been fulfilled.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation: The Bride, The Beast & Babylon

I can picture OC Jerusalem in the NT as the "Woman" and the beast it was riding as ancient Rome

John 19:
12 From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, "If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar's friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar."
15 But they cried out, "Away with [Him], away with [Him]! Crucify Him!"
Pilate said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar!"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !................




.
 
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Hentenza

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If that's what you believe.

At the time of the reformation no apostasy occurred. Some remain with the Roman church while others moved to other churches.



They were future at the time of the writing. They are past now because they have been fulfilled.

lol No. No evidence for a great apostasy exists and the man of lawlessness, who will be revealed during the tribulation, is yet to be revealed. Secondly, the restrainer, which is the Holy Spirit, is still present among the faithful.
 
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Stryder06

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Around the 19th century? ;):cool:

A couple thousands years off, but that's ok.

No proven.

Been proven. It being accepted by the majority is another matter. Choice of truth is the reason for the 41k or so denominations in the world, which ought to be proof enough of apostasy.
 
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