Racism in US vs UK

[USincognito]

Race and ethnicity are synonyms.

Ummm, no.

 

[Avniel]

Race and ethnicity are synonyms. Yes, I know the difference between them and nationalites, and nations.

First of all what??? Second of all if you know the difference why did you say Japanese is a race.....

 

[Sketcher]

First of all what??? Second of all if you know the difference why did you say Japanese is a race.....

There's a Japanese race, and a Japanese nation. The Japanese nation happens to be mostly populated by the Japanese race.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

in Britain if you can make me money you can sit down and talk I don't care about your race....it's all about your class. My family from Britain are very similar when you are struggling they tend to look down on you but when you are doing well they tend to look at you with admiration and respect.

It is more so classism then racism some of my relatives in Britain are white or they would appear white, meaning they had more white relatives then black. Most of my family work in some sort of white collar job and have done so for many years. When my family comes to America and see what I am doing with my life they tend to not really look at my color more so inside my pocket.

Having had friends/family from Britain - as well as others in lands impacted by the British Empire (as it concerns places that were part of the Common Wealth of Britain like Jamaica) - I have to say that it seems class is only one aspect of the situation.

For in Britain, it often seemed that many things were a matter of covert racism at play - and for me, this is seen mainly in the Literature and the Arts predominately when it comes to the ways others of darker complexions are repeatedly depicted by many celebrated British writers (i.e. C.S Lewis of the "Chronicles of Narnia", Tokien with "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" saga, etc....more on the issue shared here in #2/#5 ).

Despite the fact that there have historically been other groups of non-Caucasian/white people in the British Empire and the UK, they often were deemed as if they were non-existent and the only strong presentations you ever saw of them in media/film were in the negative. ..and in many respects, it was assumed to be the case that it was ALWAYS that way.

In example, some have found it a little silly when they watch episodes of BBC Merlin to see Guinevere played by a black woman. ..assuming that Authurian England was not multi-cultural. However, I actually enjoyed the fact that they were willing to be that direct in challenging the system with having Guinevere black. There was actually a wonderful academic article on the issue I thought was HIGHLY enjoyable - entitled "Black in Camelot (Africans in Arthurian Legend)" [Revised 2013-05 ... (more here ) seeing that having blacks in England was not something unheard of. It's just something many are not really aware of...even though not all black people like the Medieval ages anyhow.

• Europe was ruled by Black People until 1789 - Historum - History

Historically, the Moors invaded southern Europe including Italy, Portugal and Spain in the 8th and 9th centuries. Specifically, the "Moors" were not a distinct or self-defined people or ethnicity - and medieval and early modern Europeans applied the name to the Berbers, but also at various times to Arabs and Muslim Iberians and West Africans from Mali and Niger who had been absorbed into the Almoravid dynasty of Morocco.

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A good example of this awareness of black people in Medieval times would be Shakespeare's Othello (1603) - a Moorish general in the Venetian army (Northern Italy).

Moreover, there are accounts of Moorish travellers, ambassadors, courtesans (with their own servants), minstrels, chamberlains, and mercenaries from various sources throughout Europe, and especially England and Scotland.

• Africans in Medieval Europe -
• Problems in Studying the Role of Blacks In Europe
• AFRO-EUROPE: A History of Black people in Europe

Often, you really won't see a lot of historical discussion on that issue at large within the U.K - and that seems to reflect a lot of issues.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There is also the point that less than a century ago, while Britain was (and still is) predominantly Caucasian, the British Empire was predominantly not.

Even as it concerns Caucasians, there were still battles of mistreatment. I am reminded of the experiences of the Dark Irish (whom many deem to have a mixture in ancestry with the Spanish and others from the Iberian Peninsula) and the Irish in general. The 'dark Irish' were set off (and the Tinkers without regard for color), and the Irish were likewise 'set apart' by the Brits as being less human. In England, these "native Irish " suffered something very similar to American slavery under English Penal Laws. If aware of Thomas Nast’s 19th-century anti-Irish cartoons, it's hard not to consider the ways Irish were often treated the same as Blacks.

Concerning the Dark Irish and the ways they were treated, there was an excellent book I came across recently - amongst a long list of books that would really do a lot to transform the conversation on ethic diversity in the U.S - as the concept of "white" was not something universally shared by many European groups who are deemed such today......and there are a LOT of factors going into things For more, one can check out the book entitled "How the Isrish Became White"

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One can read the book at this resource if interested. For an excellent review on the book, one can consider going here to Review of “How the Irish Became White” | The End of Capitalism (and more shared here, here and here, here, here and here).

 

[Avniel]

There's a Japanese race, and a Japanese nation. The Japanese nation happens to be mostly populated by the Japanese race.

Lol no

 

[USincognito]

There's a Japanese race, and a Japanese nation. The Japanese nation happens to be mostly populated by the Japanese race.

No. Just no.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, or social affiliation. First used to denote national affiliations, the term began to be used to relate to physical traits in the 17th century and promoted hierarchies favorable to differing ethnic groups. Starting from the 19th century the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype.[1][2][3]

The exact definition of racism is controversial both because there is little scholarly agreement about the meaning of the concept "race", and because there is also little agreement about what does and doesn't constitute discrimination. Critics argue that the term is applied differentially, with a focus on such prejudices by whites, and defining mere observations of racial differences as racism.[4] Some definitions would have it that any assumption that a person's behavior would be influenced by their racial categorization is racist, regardless of whether the action is intentionally harmful or pejorative. Other definitions only include consciously malignant forms of discrimination.[5] Among the questions about how to define racism are the question of whether to include forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, whether to include symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes through the media, and whether to include the socio-political dynamics of social stratification that sometimes have a racial component. Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes.[3][6]


Racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial. According to the United Nations convention, there is no distinction between the terms racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination, and superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous, and that there is no justification for racial discrimination, in theory or in practice, anywhere.[7]


It only takes 10 minutes to research and you are all sitting there, "loling" for no reason. Please, read. No need to make your case weak.

When people speak of white, you darn well know they are talking about euro-centric white. Why are you making such terrible point of arguments and complete strawman?

I'd rather bark on the principles of discussion and combine racial discrimination with ethnic discrimination and use them interchangeably. If there is little academic consensus, you should well know you and I don't know much about that either and respect each other's opinion and open doors for discussion. No need to make fun of someone because you are unwilling to move the discussion forward and incapable of grasping at the idea that just maybe just MAYBE he is right MAYBE we should argue based on principles.

jews are white too, you know, they were pretty indistinguishable from Caucasians by 1940 and they were interbreeding with Caucasians. and we still call Nazi oppression against Jews Nazi racism despite the fact that Jews are ethnicity. there, i just destroyed you entire premise. Enjoy your detention, boys.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Dp

 

[Avniel]

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, or social affiliation. First used to denote national affiliations, the term began to be used to relate to physical traits in the 17th century and promoted hierarchies favorable to differing ethnic groups. Starting from the 19th century the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype.[1][2][3]

The exact definition of racism is controversial both because there is little scholarly agreement about the meaning of the concept "race", and because there is also little agreement about what does and doesn't constitute discrimination. Critics argue that the term is applied differentially, with a focus on such prejudices by whites, and defining mere observations of racial differences as racism.[4] Some definitions would have it that any assumption that a person's behavior would be influenced by their racial categorization is racist, regardless of whether the action is intentionally harmful or pejorative. Other definitions only include consciously malignant forms of discrimination.[5] Among the questions about how to define racism are the question of whether to include forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, whether to include symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes through the media, and whether to include the socio-political dynamics of social stratification that sometimes have a racial component. Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes.[3][6]


Racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial. According to the United Nations convention, there is no distinction between the terms racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination, and superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous, and that there is no justification for racial discrimination, in theory or in practice, anywhere.[7]


It only takes 10 minutes to research and you are all sitting there, "loling" for no reason. Please, read. No need to make your case weak.

When people speak of white, you darn well know they are talking about euro-centric white. Why are you making such terrible point of arguments and complete strawman?

I'd rather bark on the principles of discussion and combine racial discrimination with ethnic discrimination and use them interchangeably. If there is little academic consensus, you should well know you and I don't know much about that either and respect each other's opinion and open doors for discussion. No need to make fun of someone because you are unwilling to move the discussion forward and incapable of grasping at the idea that just maybe just MAYBE he is right MAYBE we should argue based on principles.

jews are white too, you know, they were pretty indistinguishable from Caucasians by 1940 and they were interbreeding with Caucasians. and we still call Nazi oppression against Jews Nazi racism despite the fact that Jews are ethnicity. there, i just destroyed you entire premise. Enjoy your detention, boys.

When did jews become white?

 

[seashale76]

Do you think racism in america is at a higher level due to the age of america?

I don't think the age of the country has anything to do with it. It's the type of mass slavery that was imported and institutionalized here in the US that has made the difference. Even though there was slavery in the UK- what went on within those borders was nothing truly comparable with what went on here. IIRC- in Jamestown- laws were eventually made that caused the slavery to be more racially based than was usual.

Think of it- in the US- you have a native population that was decimated by around 90% due to disease, etcetera after first contact with Europeans- who then moved in and essentially took over land the natives no longer had the numbers to defend. Then you had the Spanish, the French, and the English all vying for resources. Then you had Africans being enslaved. Then there was four major migrations from the British Isles that all had different reasons and sub-cultures. Mix that all together, have a revolution and a civil war, then abolish slavery, then enforce laws against the former slaves and their descendants (who are easily identifiable due to their differing skin color)- and you have one big mess waiting to happen in a society that wasn't all that stable to begin with.

Whereas in the UK itself, the native population is white already and anybody else coming in would try harder to integrate into the majority culture. So- any non-white immigrants would be more easily accepted. Even then- you still have racism- just not nearly on the same scale as here.

 

[Avniel]

I don't think the age of the country has anything to do with it. It's the type of mass slavery that was imported and institutionalized here in the US that has made the difference. Even though there was slavery in the UK- what went on within those borders was nothing truly comparable with what went on here. IIRC- in Jamestown- laws were eventually made that caused the slavery to be more racially based than was usual.

Think of it- in the US- you have a native population that was decimated by around 90% due to disease, etcetera after first contact with Europeans- who then moved in and essentially took over land the natives no longer had the numbers to defend. Then you had the Spanish, the French, and the English all vying for resources. Then you had Africans being enslaved. Then there was four major migrations from the British Isles that all had different reasons and sub-cultures. Mix that all together, have a revolution and a civil war, then abolish slavery, then enforce laws against the former slaves and their descendants (who are easily identifiable due to their differing skin color)- and you have one big mess waiting to happen in a society that wasn't all that stable to begin with.

Whereas in the UK itself, the native population is white already and anybody else coming in would try harder to integrate into the majority culture. So- any non-white immigrants would be more easily accepted. Even then- you still have racism- just not nearly on the same scale as here.

So what is the solution so we can become more like the UK

 

[seashale76]

So what is the solution so we can become more like the UK

Some friends of mine from the Caribbean and Africa have all voiced similar opinions- and I think they're on to something. The main theme is that they think we Americans need to quit hyphenating ourselves. We need to stop with the African-American, Asian-American, Irish-American, Hispanic-American, Native-American, etcetera stuff- because it is only dividing us more. We just need to all call ourselves Americans and get on the same page. They also tend to think that we need a complete re-haul of our educational system as it isn't rigorous enough and it needs to be nationalized and vocational programs need to be added, along with healthcare being socialized, etc. Those three things alone would likely go a long way in equalizing some of the vestiges of institutionalized racism that linger on.

 

[Avniel]

Some friends of mine from the Caribbean and Africa have all voiced similar opinions- and I think they're on to something. The main theme is that they think we Americans need to quit hyphenating ourselves. We need to stop with the African-American, Asian-American, Irish-American, Hispanic-American, Native-American, etcetera stuff- because it is only dividing us more. We just need to all call ourselves Americans and get on the same page. They also tend to think that we need a complete re-haul of our educational system as it isn't rigorous enough and it needs to be nationalized and vocational programs need to be added, along with healthcare being socialized, etc. Those three things alone would likely go a long way in equalizing some of the vestiges of institutionalized racism that linger on.

I wanted to talk about something you said that I did a project on in school. If you ask black Americans are they American first or black even male or female most will reply black, male or female then American normally comes last. Caribbean people typically will say country, race then gender which I found to be very interesting. It wasn't a big study or a group just an interesting college assignment which I think is pretty valid.

 

[Miser]

Theres plenty of racism here unfortunately. There have been several "race riots" in places like Bradford, and politically parties such as the BNP are getting more and more votes. Though I must say it seems that racism in this country is primarily targeted at Islamic communities

Recently the killing of the soldier Lee Rigby by an Islamic fanatic caused many mosques to be targeted with violence.