Will the Rapture happen before or during 2014? Please watch this video...thoughts?

[Interplanner]

Good hit on CA Doug! Lately they have looted businesses when the wrong surf hero won!

 

[4LivingCreations]

God addresses the sweat of the brow of weightless evangelism, and the man-made comfort of ticket punch escapism:



20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

 

[gasman64]

B2 doesn't listen, doesn't know what others are saying, most of the time, MrGas, but he is definitely "short"!

B2: when you read the material historically, as they heard it, you realize that the 2nd coming was expected right after the ordeal in Judea in the 1st century--with an allowance. The allowance was that the Father alone would decide when. Check most church historians (for ex., K. Latourrette) and you will find that that is the understanding of this material. The document, when finalized, had to express both dimensions: the immediacy and the allowance.

You don't seem to know how to listen, so you zip off to the future on one of your Bible verse whirlwinds, and miss out on discussion.

as for the 2nd part of responding to my literal = ordinary comment (I only read your first lines because so much of it is non-listening), the reason you 'find no historical fulfillment' is because you don't know any (history). It is impossible to extricate Luke from the historical moment. I don't mean Luke 21, I mean the whole book. I notice you are one of many who bothered not to comment on my 'Luke on the DofJ' thread because it has as much overwhelming historic force as a temple stone landing on you.

2nd, there are legitimate historical readings that show that the visions of Rev have to do with that as well. see the thread, just recently brought forward, 'the woman on the beast.' It is an audio link.

The most accurate understanding of the material is 1st its own historical setting, and then any replication it might have in our time.

On history, find W. Keller's THE BIBLE AS HISTORY which has a chapter on the war. L. Gaston's NO STONE ON ANOTHER is about as historical a reading as you will ever find. Rhoads' ISRAEL IN REVOLUTION 6--73 CE shows what the interactions with the Galileans meant for Jesus' ministry. And let's not forget the most intriguing historical comment: Josephus on Dan 9, which is a thread here as well.

Hahahaha

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

Will the Rapture happen before or during 2014?

This thread violates the forums "Statement Of Purpose". Date setting or date speculation is not allowed.

 

[Bible2]

gasman64 said in post 99:

While I appreciate the shortness of your answer...you didn't really address the question.

In what way did post 97 not answer the question in post 93, when the question in post 93 assumed a belief in a pre-tribulation rapture?

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 100:

B2: when you read the material historically, as they heard it, you realize that the 2nd coming was expected right after the ordeal in Judea in the 1st century--with an allowance.

Note that the timing referred to in Matthew 24:29-31 wasn't what was "expected", but was what Jesus himself taught about when his 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church will occur in relation to the never-fulfilled tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (cf. also 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

Interplanner said in post 100:

B2: when you read the material historically, as they heard it, you realize that the 2nd coming was expected right after the ordeal in Judea in the 1st century--with an allowance.

Regarding "Judaea" (Matthew 24:16), note that this doesn't have to mean first century Judaea. For there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the church, both Gentiles and Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church will reach every nation of the earth (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16 of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution) would apply to believers around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up, they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of food, water, warm clothing, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all those in the church that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Interplanner said in post 100:

The allowance was that the Father alone would decide when.

Are you thinking of Acts 1:7? If so, note that Acts 1:7, like Matthew 24:36,42,44, doesn't contradict the stated timing of Matthew 24:29-31. Instead, Acts 1:7 can simply mean that it wasn't for the apostles to know at that time the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' 2nd coming, when he will restore the Davidic kingdom of Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21, Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7, Zechariah 14:3-21, Isaiah 2:1-4). Acts 1:7 doesn't require that no believers will ever come to know the date of the 2nd coming before it happens.

Similarly, Matthew 24:36,42,44 doesn't require that. For Matthew 24:36,42,44 also refers to Jesus' 2nd coming, which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it's possible that at some point in the future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and symbolicist views), then how can we also claim that he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the 2nd verse means that no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

Interplanner said in post 100:

(I only read your first lines because so much of it is non-listening)

Is reading only first lines listening?

 

[Interplanner]

There is no need for listening after a while because you're a broken record. Finally, here, you say something that indicates you've heard a question put to you. That's a start!

 

[Interplanner]

B2 wrote:
wasn't what was "expected",

There isn't any other way to put it. The formula is complex. It says that set A of things will happen to them, and then set B, however only the Father will decide the time of set B which has to do with the whole world. You can find the paragraph by Latourrette pasted here on a thread; it is a church historian explaining that the material has always been seen as both very immediate and then expecting-but-allowing for a distant future return, as does 2 Pet 3.

You have never taken the question seriously about your 'never fulfilled tribulation' of Mt 24 & //s. You cannot extricate Luke from what happened to them (the whole book, not just the DofJ events) and therefore likewise with Mt 24A because of the parallels. And now we have another great audio link by a person who was taught futurism all his life finally realizing that Jesus inaugurated what Rev is tallking about in the expression the thousand years. (In addition to the Preston presentation on 'the woman on the beast' which is more historical). But in the case of Luke it is not 'theology' per se, because everything is so grounded in historic instances and references and the Galilean revolution.

 

[Interplanner]

B2 wrote:
this doesn't have to mean first century Judaea

This phrasing is so annoying. So now what you are telling me is 1, it does mean 1st century Judea, and 2, but now that that is past tense, it can mean other things. You wouldn't know what it was saying to our future if it had no meaning back then! I can understand how some things might replicate today, with a huge shift in which Islam has a role, but it has to mean the 1st century first because it is spoken all in those terms and conditions. Everyone who reads Matthew for ex., can see that Mt 10 has prep material for the 70 that is practically copied here about the same present tense conditions. That's just one of many pieces like that.

 

[Houly]

And now we have another great audio link by a person who was taught futurism all his life finally realizing that Jesus inaugurated what Rev is tallking about in the expression the thousand years.

Where's that?

 

[Interplanner]

re listening
Good job B2, you actually dealt with some questions. It's taken 2-3 months and some 50 posts to get your attention

re 1 Cor 2 and knowing
No comparison at all. 1 Cor 2 is Paul's general epistemology; this other question from Mt 24 & //s is one prognosticative detail that we aren't going to know.

re the Father alone
those parables say the same thing about expected-but-allowed-to-be-distant. Only the Father/thief/master/bridegroom decides when.

re Acts 1
No I don't jump all over the place when I'm talking about Mt 24 & //s. Apparently some of the fig tree paragraph was meant to loop back to the 1st cent. events, but also to draw a similarity between that and the Return (that is what Latourrette's paragraph is about; he is not a theologian per se, he is a historian of theologies). I was refering to v36+. That starts 1 ordinary statement and 3 images (Father/thief/master/bridegroom) all saying the same thing. You don't know when, so you just stay at the work. You don't try to figure out when, and can't (25:13). That says volumes about people running around with theories about exactness.

The talent parable (next) does not take up this theme, but rather cowardice.

 

[Interplanner]

Hi Houly
I will try to find it. I listened yesterday.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7763564/

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 108:

It says that set A of things will happen to them . . .

Not necessarily. For while Jesus was speaking with the apostles in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, in his mind all believers of all times are one (John 17:20-21, Ephesians 4:4-5). The events he foretold there didn't happen in the lifetime of the apostles, or any time since then, but will occur in our future.

Interplanner said in post 108:

And now we have another great audio link by a person who was taught futurism all his life finally realizing that Jesus inaugurated what Rev is tallking about in the expression the thousand years.

Note that there are at least 8 different scriptural reasons for reading the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:4-6 as not beginning until after Jesus' future 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7-21.

First, this is in accord with how the rest of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are in chronological order, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the unsaved world (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3), and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

~

Second, the 1,000 years in Revelation 20:4-6 is the same as in Revelation 20:1-3, when Satan will be literally bound with a chain, and cast into and locked within the literal bottomless pit, for 1,000 years, whereas currently he's walking about freely on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet. But their beginning after Jesus' 2nd coming makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Third, during the 1,000 years, Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 20:3), whereas currently he is able to deceive the world (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Corinthians 11:3,14,15; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:14, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet.

Fourth, the defeat of Satan in Revelation 20:1-3 is in chronological accord with the immediately preceding defeat of the Antichrist (the individual man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet, and the world's armies, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21). Indeed, there's no chapter break between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 in the original Greek manuscripts, so that Revelation 19:19 to 20:3 can be taken together as a unit, showing how every power of evil will be defeated at Jesus' 2nd coming.

Fifth, reading Revelation 20:4-6 as Jesus and the bodily resurrected church reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches Jesus reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming in Zechariah 14:3-21. For Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth, because it refers to a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:20-21), whereas there will be no temple building in New Jerusalem on the new earth (Revelation 21:22). Also, Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth because it refers to surviving unsaved people from the present earth being forced to come up to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19), whereas by the time of the new earth, all the unsaved people from the present earth will have already been cast into the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:15 to 21:8).

Sixth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches other verses which show that the bodily resurrection of the church will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Seventh, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:5, which must refer in its entirety to only bodily resurrection. For not every dead person is going to be spiritually resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15). And Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all the non-church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that the church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but not until sometime after the 1,000 years.

Eighth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:4, which shows that the people in the first resurrection will include those in the church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) for not worshipping him or his image, or receiving his mark on their hand or forehead. This refers back to the details of Revelation 13:4-18, which have never been fulfilled. So the first resurrection can't have happened yet. But its occurring at Jesus' 2nd coming, when he will defeat the Antichrist, makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:20 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9).

Interplanner said in post 108:

(In addition to the Preston presentation on 'the woman on the beast' which is more historical).

Note that while the corrupt aspects of first-century Jerusalem (and of other cities) are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents, it represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of first-century Jerusalem. For first-century Jerusalem just by itself didn't reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor was first-century Jerusalem the only place where people bought merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor had first-century Jerusalem just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor had Jerusalem been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). Instead, Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3), and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

In Revelation 11:8, the great city is Jerusalem, where Jesus was crucified. But in Revelation 21:10, the great city is New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven. And in Revelation 14:8, Revelation 17:18, and Revelation 18:10-21, the great city is the symbolic harlot/city of Babylon. When it's destroyed, it will be found no more at all (Revelation 18:21), forever (Revelation 19:3), unlike Jerusalem, which was found again after its only-temporary destruction in 70 AD.

The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number six in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break all our chains of attachment to this vile physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat the world's armies, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the 1,000 years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new first heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem, to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

Interplanner said in post 108:

(In addition to the Preston presentation on 'the woman on the beast' which is more historical).

The 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent not just the Roman Empire in the first century, but 7 different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires that had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10,11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

 

[gasman64]

In what way did post 97 not answer the question in post 93, when the question in post 93 assumed a belief in a pre-tribulation rapture?

The question was 'do you have your own doomsday stash and if you do, why would you need one if you are expecting to be raptued?' You didn't even attempt to answer the question. That's why Interplanner mentioned you not listening.

 

[Houly]

The question was 'do you have your own doomsday stash and if you do, why would you need one if you are expecting to be raptued?' You didn't even attempt to answer the question. That's why Interplanner mentioned you not listening.

The "rapture" is after the tribulation.

Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

 

[John S]

There won't be a Rapture before or during 2014 because there won't be a Rapture.
This is one of Satan's greatest deceptions, which far too many Christians have already been deceived by - but Jesus did say that "many will be deceived".

 

[ancientsoul]

There won't be a Rapture before or during 2014 because there won't be a Rapture.
This is one of Satan's greatest deceptions, which far too many Christians have already been deceived by - but Jesus did say that "many will be deceived".

in agreement ... no rapture ...

 

[Houly]

There won't be a Rapture before or during 2014 because there won't be a Rapture.
This is one of Satan's greatest deceptions, which far too many Christians have already been deceived by - but Jesus did say that "many will be deceived".

in agreement ... no rapture ...

I agree that we shouldn't expect a pre-tribulation rapture. The "post-tribulation rapture" is the gathering of the faithful following Armageddon and preceding the millennium.

 

[ancientsoul]

I agree that we shouldn't expect a pre-tribulation rapture. The "post-tribulation rapture" is the gathering of the faithful following Armageddon and preceding the millennium.

yeah ... haven't bothered too much yet with the post rapture thing ... not even sure how that's supposed to work ...

this is what i know ... He only comes 2 x ... He's already been here once before ... and i believe THIS is where the hereafter is ... as far as a place Jesus rules over ... the new Jerusalem ... i know things about that time that can be seen in scripture ... and i'm sooo sure there will be much more ...

in the end for me ... i just want to be where He is ... and to have given it my everything ... i trust Him enough to be here during the trib ... to know He won't leave me, nor forsake me ... either i believe that ... or i don't ... it's that simple for me ... i believe Him ... i refuse to believe He's mad at me and i'm going to be 'punished' for believing and trusting Him ... regardless of how it goes down ...

i work to be 'prepared' as one can for the trib time ... but am not 'crazed' by it ... i see it as prudence ... it's the prudent thing to be ready as to what we can ... will be here ... but don't expect it to be easy for Christians ... to have things to barter with ... is to 'minimalize the damage' for lack of better wording ... during that time ... to be able to be working the field during that time will not be an easy thing ... should we not be filling the storehouse for hard times ... i say that is what we are told to do ... and that there is a point when it becomes stupid if we go to far with that ...

yep, i believe i'll be one 'left behind' ... i.e. still working the field til He gets here ... i've never seen even a remote amount of evidence to say other ... that isn't, in my mind tainted with man's understanding ... iow, one has to go way beyond the normal person reading to understand the concept ... not in the face of the vast amount that says we will be here ...

remember elvis ... and how the girls all swooned ... and fainted ... dead asleep ... can't get that out of my head when i think 'rapture' ... carried away 'in the spirit of things' ... the state of esctasy ...

according to my 1954 funk and wagnalls dictionary set ... rapture is, indeed, a state of ecstasy i.e. state of being rapt, enraptured ...

and yes, it also says the act of transferring a person from one place to another ... they give Elijah as an example ...

and it says an act or expression of excessive delight ...

the one i find enlightening is this meaning ...

a snatching away; violent seizure ...

if one didn't use scriptures ... and used the word rapture ... which, to my knowledge isn't in scripture ... well, then one might wonder who was getting 'snatched away' ...

 

[abysmul]

There won't be a Rapture before or during 2014 because there won't be a Rapture.
This is one of Satan's greatest deceptions, which far too many Christians have already been deceived by - but Jesus did say that "many will be deceived".

indeed