The day of reckoning. What will replace the standard solar theory?

[Loudmouth]

Your model apparently allows for magical magnetic lines to do everything you need them to do on command, from 'cooling' the photosphere, to "heating" the chromosphere. Your magnetic fields do all sorts of magic tricks on command.

And now you descend into your childish antics of using name calling instead of science.

I'm done.

 

[Michael]

And now you descend into your childish antics of using name calling instead of science.

I'm done.

Right. First you try to claim magnetic fields cool plasma when you wish, then magnetic fields heat other plasma when you wish, and now you're running because your "best" attempt at reconciling helioseismology observation to models still went up in huge flames. Even the authors themselves couldn't do it.

You won't deal with the images. You won't deal with Kosovichev's maths. You won't deal with the sunspot modeling maths. You won't use SDO to confirm the mathematical models. All you can do is run now and pretend your not running from 'reality'.

Like you said earlier, denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Michael]

The MHD model is based on observations just as much as the helioseismology method.

Bzzt. They couldn't reconcile the two!

You are the one claiming that no magnetic fields exist due to convection currents. Where is your evidence?

Those convection observations are 1% of standard model, and apparently about 3 to 30 percent of the gyroscopic model they proposed.

You are the one forgetting that fact, not I. There is a transition region where the photosphere increases in opacity.

Huh? That's not the 'transition region' discussed in 'mainstream' models! Assuming you mean "chromosphere", even that would simply be a change in opacity, not a point in the atmosphere where solar moss forms and/or flux ropes originate! The mainstream model predicts something that simply isn't there!

Ignore it all you want, it's still there. I guess we can add this to the list of facts that you are denying.

You've been denying physical facts for years now, starting with the *fact* that electrical discharges occur in plasmas and flares. You have no right to lecture anyone about denial. You're the undisputed king of denial.

 

[Michael]

Extreme High Voltage: AnAtmoSphere: Cathode Central Sphere Solar Electrode - YouTube

This is a great recent video on electric (cathode) sun theory. What is most intriguing from my perspective is the various comparison he makes, and the specifically the tufting that occurs all around the sphere, just like solar flare activity. Nice video. I loved the comparison to a "cosmic event".

 

[Deaconjames]

This is a bit off track, but do the models consider the Photosphere to be entirely in Fusion or just a cold layer between fusion layers???? ......

 

[Michael]

This is a bit off track, but do the models consider the Photosphere to be entirely in Fusion or just a cold layer between fusion layers???? ......

Sorry I missed this earlier...

Most electric sun models consider the photosphere to be a region of high discharge activity, but they vary quite a bit in terms of *where* most of the fusion occurs.

Most cathode solar models (Birkeland) suggest that the sun's fusion mostly occurs in and/or around the core, somewhat like the standard solar model. On the other hand, most anode EU solar models suggest that more fusion occurs in the atmosphere than a typical cathode model. All electric sun models seem to agree that "some" amount of fusion occurs in the solar atmosphere, but mostly as a result of flare activity. None of them necessarily predict that the photosphere itself is the location of the majority of fusion, but an anode model would tend to predict a lot more fusion occurs in the outer atmosphere than a typical cathode model.

Whereas a neutrino image from a standard model would tend to show the release of neutrinos is concentrated in the core, the typical EU model would predict that a significant percentage of such releases take place around the whole sun, particularly during x and m class flare activity.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

The theory of a solid sun and electrical activity upon its surface.
With a solid surface their theories of a thermoneclear core need re-thought.

Trace satelite running difference images at the frequency of Fe (iron)
http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/T171_000828.avi

Wake up people! They are propegating a 100 year old belief clearly proved false. MRI images of the sun only show 1% of the convection required by mainstream theory.

[1206.3173] Anomalously Weak Solar Convection

They need to just man-up and admit they were wrong so science can get back on track.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7756026/

 

[Justatruthseeker]

This is a bit off track, but do the models consider the Photosphere to be entirely in Fusion or just a cold layer between fusion layers???? ......

In laboratory z-pinch experiments the fusion occurs at the pinch and gives off neutrinos as a byproduct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinch_(plasma_physics)

All forms of EM radiation are emitted across the entire spectrum. Only at high energy levels are neutrinos and synchroton radiation given off. Most likely it is ocurring near the surface as is seen in my previous post.

 

[Michael]

A Blog About Solar Theory-The Solar Coronal, The Chromosphere And The Photosphere.

FYI, I'm not sure if you caught my whole conversation with Tom Bridgman, but on 2/24, I put together a whole series of images for him (they are also in this thread by the way), that show all the effects of the electromagnetic ropes on the surface of the photosphere in various SDO wavelengths and magnetogram images.

I also discussed the mass flow aspects of some flares and the fact that the mass flow from solar flares is almost always up, through, and away from the surface of the photosphere, and only sometimes does mass flow in the other direction.

The mainstream never accounted for that 600,000 million volt 'tension' as Birkeland describes it between the cathode surface of the sun, and the heliosphere ('space' according to Birkeland). As a result they really don't have a good or useful explanation for coronal heating. That's particularly true now that convection has been shown to be about 1 percent of their "predicted/necessary" speed. They lost their presumed "power supply' to explain outer atmospheric heating, and they are still clueless about the voltage difference between the sun and "space".

 

[Justatruthseeker]

A Blog About Solar Theory-The Solar Coronal, The Chromosphere And The Photosphere.

FYI, I'm not sure if you caught my whole conversation with Tom Bridgman, but on 2/24, I put together a whole series of images for him (they are also in this thread by the way), that show all the effects of the electromagnetic ropes on the surface of the photosphere in various SDO wavelengths and magnetogram images.

I also discussed the mass flow aspects of some flares and the fact that the mass flow from solar flares is almost always up, through, and away from the surface of the photosphere, and only sometimes does mass flow in the other direction.

The mainstream never accounted for that 600,000 million volt 'tension' as Birkeland describes it between the cathode surface of the sun, and the heliosphere ('space' according to Birkeland). As a result they really don't have a good or useful explanation for coronal heating. That's particularly true now that convection has been shown to be about 1 percent of their "predicted/necessary" speed. They lost their presumed "power supply' to explain outer atmospheric heating, and they are still clueless about the voltage difference between the sun and "space".

Good work btw. Yes, nor do they account for those magnetic ropes connecting Sun to Earth that are pumping energy equivalent to a 5.5 magnitude earthquake into the Earth's upper atmosphere every few seconds.

NASA Spacecraft Make New Discoveries about Northern Lights - NASA Science

Then two years later they find themselves still surprised by the data, as if everything that went before is ignored. Admitting everything they had been taught was shown to be wrong. And they only made this discovery by accident. In both cases they were investigating non-electrical events.
Scientists discover surprise in Earth's upper atmosphere / UCLA Newsroom

TB is basically a close-minded idiot. Don Scott has had his own run-in with TB and shown how wrong he was then too.
http://electric-cosmos.org/RebutTB.pdf
as well as his cohort TT.
http://electric-cosmos.org/Rejoinder.pdf

Personally when they can ignore 99.99% of the universe as having any effect, what they have to say is pretty useless. How they can ignore plasma - 99.99% - of the universe in their explanations and then expect not to be constantly surprised is beyond me. Of course one needs only read any astronomy press release in the last 20 years to see this in action. Surprised, confused, dumbfounded, theory needs revising, on and on and on, over and over and over. The only *real surprise* is that they are still surprised anymore that observations don't match theory when it happens with every new data set. That would be like ignoring the oceans in any theory about Earth's weather and being surprised the data doesn't match.

It's well, surprising.

 

[Michael]

Good work btw. Yes, nor do they account for those magnetic ropes connecting Sun to Earth that are pumping energy equivalent to a 5.5 magnitude earthquake into the Earth's upper atmosphere every few seconds.

NASA Spacecraft Make New Discoveries about Northern Lights - NASA Science

Then two years later they find themselves still surprised by the data, as if everything that went before is ignored. Admitting everything they had been taught was shown to be wrong. And they only made this discovery by accident. In both cases they were investigating non-electrical events.
Scientists discover surprise in Earth's upper atmosphere / UCLA Newsroom

It's fine to be wrong about any idea, but....

You'd think at this point that they would just toss out their pitiful and now falsified solar model, and take a fresh look at Birkeland's empirical laboratory experiments. It's really mystifying to me why the mainstream isn't doing something about their falsified theory at this point. I guess since they can't 'fix' their massive problem with convection, they'll just ignore it. They'd rather never admit their mistake and keep teach young naive physics students a theory that has already been trash canned by SDO.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

It's fine to be wrong about any idea, but....

You'd think at this point that they would just toss out their pitiful and now falsified solar model, and take a fresh look at Birkeland's empirical laboratory experiments. It's really mystifying to me why the mainstream isn't doing something about their falsified theory at this point. I guess since they can't 'fix' their massive problem with convection, they'll just ignore it. They'd rather never admit their mistake and keep teach young naive physics students a theory that has already been trash canned by SDO.

Sure it's ok to be wrong, as long as you admit your mistakes and move on, not continually to ignore the data that shows you to be wrong. It's not really that mystifying. To admit their experts are not experts is a big deal. What faith could one have in science when they have been ignoring the data for close to 40+ years? Rejected papers dealing with the charged particles, refused funding for alternative testing that might contradict mainstream belief. Then you have the money to revamp the entire education system. Most textbooks will be useless, except those on EM field theory and electronics. Tenured professors no longer educated enough to be tenured professors. Nobel prizes handed out for Fairie Dust. Reputations and motives called into question.

If they said hey, there might be something to that, they wouldn't sound like idiots. Instead they continue to ignore the data as if nothing has occurred. I think they think it is cheaper and the best grace saver. The language of electrical activity is slowly entering the stories. They plan to slowly bring it in so they can ignore the pioneers that made it possible and take credit for themselves, instead of sounding like idiots they are for claiming it couldn't exist in space to begin with. Slip it in slowly so the public does not realize the transition and their stupidity.

Yes, stupidity. Stupidity for thinking the EU is going to let them get away with duping the public and milking them dry for Fairie Dust. For claiming electric activity could not exist in space, and then finding it with every single probe launched into space. For talking about plasma as if it was merely dust or hot gas. For just being stupid, there is no other terminology that fits. Only someone that was stupid or mentally challenged would stick their hand in a fire over and over and over on purpose, ignoring everything they learned the first time. Yet that is what they do, they get burned, twist a few numbers, what they call revising theory, then shove their hand in again, and are surprised to find they still get burned. Not once have they looked at their original theory about stars, comets, planets, galaxies. They continue on as if nothing is wrong in wonderland.

Just greedy thieves milking a gullible public for everything they are worth and giving nothing in return but revised theory after revised theory. Surprise after surprise. For people that seem to need to revise their theories every time a probe sends back data or we look into space, they sure seem to have a misplaced confidence in their theories. While these same surprises for mainstream have confirmed the EU/PC theories from the start.

Am just hoping we don't have to continue down a scientific dead end much longer and can start to progress again. Will be a nice change from stagnation.

 

[Michael]

Sure it's ok to be wrong, as long as you admit your mistakes and move on, not continually to ignore the data that shows you to be wrong.

I hear you on that point, I really do. I also share your optimism about the future. It would be nice to embrace empirical physics, and make real scientific progress for a change.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I hear you on that point, I really do. I also share your optimism about the future. It would be nice to embrace empirical physics, and make real scientific progress for a change.

Yah, got some that want to debate supernova theory. Every one we observe defies standard theory and yet somehow they see a confirmation. A thermonuclear core doesn't fit our sun, let alone nova theory. I don't really argue EU/PC because I think they are going to change their minds, but there are those honestly seeking some answers, and EU/PC has enough solid laboratory backing it can't be beat.

Then add all the modern observations and it is going to be a solid empirical paradigm once again soon. Right now we are back in the phase of epicycles again. Trying to get out of that Earth centered thinking mainstream has dug us into. NASA knows better and I know they do, but I also know the position they are in. One needs only say Halton Arp to understand what going against established beliefs means.

I think the EU will have some course material ready within the next year or so, what with a lot of states going to fact based courses and the ability to now bring up alternate theories that question established claims. The youth are our fail-safe device. Most paradigms don't change until the ones at the top die out. Most of them about gone though.

Notice how they used to do science by press release, now suddenly those press releases are not good enough any more because they all point to EU/PC theory.

The general public is so uneducated most don't even know what causes magnetism. Yet think they can argue relativity theory. Have no idea at all what the entire Lorentz Force is based upon. Most have no concept at all of what electricity is, voltage, and even less of plasma. Yet can tell you without a doubt it's not applicable. Just gotta love it!

At least I had enough respect to study their theory before rejecting it. Can't get the same in return?

 

[Greatcloud]

Wow great thread Michael about the Sun we are very needing to see just how it functions. This thread was due for a bump, so consider this a bump.