New Age Can Give You Spiritual Insight!

[Gxg (G²)]

Remez is "hints," meaning that there is more to a verse than a literal meaning - not saying a portion of a scripture to make someone think of the rest of it, though it may require the student to search out other passages to understand what it is hinting at. Just a little FYI.

Concerning Remez, Saying a portion of scripture in order to ensure that others review the rest of it later (or presupposing the rest of it is noted) is a part of the "hint" dynamic. ..all of it conncected to Pardes (Jewish exegesis..more discussed elsewhere).

The word Remez is about meaning "hint" or a "harkening back" to something that needs no further elaboration because the hearers all know its obvious context. It is where a word, phrase or other element in the text hints at a truth not conveyed by the p'[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Since all first-century observant Jewish young men had memorized the Hebrew Scriptures in preparation for their Bar Mitzvahs, rabbis would often speak and teach in this remez (shorthand) manner because everyone knew the complete (longhand) version of that portion of Scripture being cited. ..and for people taking things literal, seeing short-hand explantation can easily be taken out of place when not realizing that there's more going on than what's literally being said.

When the children shouted "Hosanna" to him in the temple and the chief priests and teachers of the law became indignant (Matt. 21:15), Jesus responded by quoting Psalm 8:2: "From the lips of children and infants, you have ordained praise." The religious leaders' anger at Jesus can be better understood when we realize that the next phrase in the Psalm reveals why children and infants offer praise, because the enemies of God would be silenced. ..and thus, the religious leaders realized that Jesus was implying that they were God's enemies.

Having more to a verse than a literal meaning is well understood, although it is only part of the equation (FYI). One way to look at this is that truncation is an allowed logical operator in Hebrew thinking. The becomes important in the gospels, where one can figure out that a likely truncation has happened.

Mat 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you."
Mat 12:39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Mat 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Mar 8:11 The Pharisees came and began to argue with him, seeking from him a sign from heaven to test him.
Mar 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, "Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation."

Luk 11:29 When the crowds were increasing, he began to say, "This generation is an evil generation. It seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.
Luk 11:30 For as Jonah became a sign to the people of Nineveh, so will the Son of Man be to this generation.


​

One question to consider is whether Jesus said that a sign will be given to this generation or not. Matt and Luke seem to disagree with Mark, but we can figure out that Jesus is prophesying about his death and resurrection, being 3 days in the tomb. Thus, Matt and Luke get it correct, so what is Mark doing? He in truncating for his purposes, as this was considered a valid way to retell the story. But suppose we only had Mark's account of this with no mention of Jonah. People could easily misunderstand it.

Again, the remez/hint idea is that a Hebrew can refer to a whole section of Scripture by just mentioning a short passage in it, the beginning or a key phrase or similar. It acts like a hypertext link but one needs to recognize the reference to even begin to see what is going on. This can really screw up many used to Greek thinking, because the text does not say something that is implied. This can change the meaning and so might be very concerning for some theological systems.

• Mashiach In Remez
• Luther's Baggage: Jesus: Master of Remez c4p3
• The Last Words of Jesus: What Did He Really Say and Mean?https://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/h...lse&aff_id=0&locale=en_us&ui=1&os_ver=6.1.1.0</DIV>
• Prophets, Priests and Poets » Blog Archive » A Classic Remezhttps://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/h...lse&aff_id=0&locale=en_us&ui=1&os_ver=6.1.1.0</DIV>javascript:void(0)

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[daq]

IMHO, You're outside of Hebrew perspective at this point/on the fringes with the argument and prayerfully, that can change.

Perhaps you might pray about that ever changing icon of yours which seems to have a mind of its own. And when that beam is removed from your own eye perhaps then you might be more capable of telling others about "Hebrew perspective".

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Perhaps you might pray about that ever changing icon of yours which seems to have a mind of its own. And when that beam is removed from your own eye perhaps then you might be more capable of telling others about "Hebrew perspective".

Bumping things for the sake of pettiness is never a wise point of action ( Proverbs 17:19 /Proverbs 18:1, Proverbs 22:10 ) - especially when/if it's bumped without having good basis in purpose...and appears opportunistic for the sake of bickering. That said, perhaps you might want to pray about that ever-present tendency to be quick to speak yet slow to listen to what's really said For choosing not to do so only makes it appear as if someone does not know how to address context and instead only has something to say if/when it's opportunistic (Proverbs 18:13, Proverbs 19:2, James 1:18-20 )

1.) It has NEVER been the case that the icon has never been "ever changing" for anyone wishing to not promote slander (as addressed before - #69 being an example) - 'Messianic' has been kept for years faithfully even while noting identification as a Christian/supporting the Church.


2.) It was never a matter of an "ever changing icon" for other Messianics (from Contra to Daughter of Ararat and SGM4HIM alongside several others ) - all within the rules of reflecting where they, as Messianics, identify with the MJish movement AND the Church.


3.) No one - if being honest - would try to attempt a false standard with any other Messianic Jews who chose not to use a Messianic icon even when they remained Messianic/spoke on the Hebraic by using the claim "Ha!!! See!! Now that you identified as Christian, you're not Jewish nor have shared on the Hebraic/Jewish perspective!!!" And likewise, the same is not going to work here with Messianic Gentiles.


4.) NOTHING has changed about being Messianic/focusing on the Hebraic when another identifies as Oriential Orthodox as I have for years (as do MANY Hebrews/Jews - Ethiopian Jews, for starters, since it's a branch within the liturgical world highly Jewish in lifestyle from worship to festivals, etc.) - for it was already present (on affiliation with OO) in signature/"Bio" within the rules when the EARLIER discussion on Yeshua/what he meant on "Ye Are Gods" occurred - and thus, since April of 2013 this year, the only thing changing was an icon switch to show the other side I've always been frank about. That doesn't change where I still go to a Messianic fellowship, teach there and identify with other Messianic Jews/Messianic Gentiles.
​

Moreover, nothing said by yourself does anything to change where the Law, Hebraic and other things were ignored by yourself on several points - and yet to be dealt with. Thus, if trying to bump an old thread, one can do so in a better manner when they have something to say dealing with WHAT was already said/avoided.

Shalom

 

[daq]

"In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin."

 

[Gxg (G²)]

"In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin."

Great scripture - especially when it comes to the context of going before the Lord in reverence/awe of his prescence rather than being quick to say a lot of things BEFORE Him.

Ecclesiastes 5:6-8 / Ecclesiastes 5
Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.

2 Do not be rash with your mouth,
And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.
For God is in heaven, and you on earth;
Therefore let your words be few.
3 For a dream comes through much activity,
And a fool’s voice is known by his many words.

4 When you make a vow to God, do not delay to pay it;
For He has no pleasure in fools.
Pay what you have vowed—
5 Better not to vow than to vow and not pay.

​

Do not let your mouth cause your flesh to sin, nor say before the messenger of God that it was an error. Why should God be angry at your excuse[a] and destroy the work of your hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there is also vanity. But fear God.
​

It's scripture in the same vein as what the Messiah noted when he said "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words...Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him" ( Matthew 6:6-8 / Matthew 6 ). It was never a text on addressing speech style in conversation lest every prophet who gave a lengthy monologue or others who were articulate (as the Messiah was and others, be it then or today) would be. Context wise, one would be doing violence to the Law of God/His word trying to use it in pettiness against anything one says of length - which of course could easily be noted of you in several responses if others chose to be equally petty. But of course, the scripture has zero to do with where you STILL avoided dealing with what the Law of God says and scripture from earlier in this older discussion- and again, you use scripture out of context.

Seriously, if you're going to quote scripture, deal with it accurately - and address scripture. But if you're going to bicker, then one can save that for another day when the red-herring actually works

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18:12-14&version=NKJV

Proverbs 18:12-14http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18:12-14&version=NKJVProverbs 18
He who answers a matter before he hears it,
It is folly and shame to him.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18:12-14&version=NKJVhttp://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18:12-14&version=NKJVhttp://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18:12-14&version=NKJV


​

 

[daq]

Great scripture - especially when it comes to the context of going before the Lord in reverence/awe of his prescence rather than being quick to say a lot of things BEFORE Him.

Ecclesiastes 5:6-8 / Ecclesiastes 5
Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.

2 Do not be rash with your mouth,
And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.
For God is in heaven, and you on earth;
Therefore let your words be few.
3 For a dream comes through much activity,
And a fool’s voice is known by his many words.

4 When you make a vow to God, do not delay to pay it;
For He has no pleasure in fools.
Pay what you have vowed—
5 Better not to vow than to vow and not pay.

​

Do not let your mouth cause your flesh to sin, nor say before the messenger of God that it was an error. Why should God be angry at your excuse[a] and destroy the work of your hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there is also vanity. But fear God.
​

It's scripture in the same vein as what the Messiah noted when he said "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words...Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him" ( Matthew 6:6-8 / Matthew 6 ). It was never a text on addressing speech style in conversation lest every prophet who gave a lengthy monologue or others who were articulate (as the Messiah was and others, be it then or today) would be. Context wise, one would be doing violence to the Law of God/His word trying to use it in pettiness against anything one says of length - which of course could easily be noted of you in several responses if others chose to be equally petty. But of course, the scripture has zero to do with where you STILL avoided dealing with what the Law of God says and scripture from earlier in this older discussion- and again, you use scripture out of context.

Seriously, if you're going to quote scripture, deal with it accurately - and address scripture. But if you're going to bicker, then one can save that for another day when the red-herring actually works

Moreover, nothing said by yourself does anything to change where the Law, Hebraic and other things were ignored by yourself on several points - and yet to be dealt with.

Since you still do not appear to understand that you are not permitted to teach here according to the established "law" of this forum please allow me to clarify once more:

"Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry."

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Since you still do not appear to understand

Sorry, I'm not biting

that you are not permitted to teach here according to the established "law" of this forum

Incorrect - and it is apparent you don't understand established "law" of the forum when speaking as you do - for it is still apparent you do not know how to listen before speaking, seeing that others are permitted to teach so long as they are Messianic/identify as such and support the SoP - and nothing has ever been said against that for other Messianic Jews/Gentiles (i.e. Contra Mundum, Daughter of Ararat, SGM4HIM, etc.) who've long noted that. None of them have ceased identifying as Messianic Jewish or Messianic Gentile when noting where they also identify with parts of Christendom (as they note their Messianic association in both CONTENT as well as monikers, SIGNATURES and BIOS). The same has long been present with myself - evidenced in signature and BIO that has not changed for years and noticed where I am in Messianic Judaism - and identified with Oriential Orthodoxy. ...consequently the reason why I address Messianic issues when they come up..

My bio already has the Messianic fellowship I've attended for years - long before I HAD a Messianic icon. And it has not changed since I chose the Oriential Orthodox icon to show where I also work with those in OO Culture/identify with them.

And it's why you trying to escape out dealing with scripture on a faulty basis/false argument is FULTILE. If one's going to try being opportunistic, one can at least be open on it rather than trying to act otherwise - or use selective argumentation that will never line up.

Seriously, pay attention better next time - and as said before, if you cannot deal with scripture, don't try to be opportunistic in avoiding it as if someone identifying with a part of the Church as well as Messianic makes them no longer Messianic. That shows one's desperate rather than able to address credibly what's said

Proverbs 18:12-14Proverbs 18
He who answers a matter before he hears it,
It is folly and shame to him.

Proverbs 25:18
A man who bears false witness against his neighbor Is like a club, a sword, and a sharp arrow

​

Whether or not you choose to address/live that scripture out is on you - but it doesn't change where you've yet to address scripture from earlier - instead trying a weak argument that has never been in play for any other Messianic on the thread in ages - and nowhere in play here since it cannot be shown at ANY point in history or time where I have not identified/continued to identify as Messianic. Hopefully, since you bumped it up, you can address scripture - but again, the attempts at distraction/red-herring are not going to help you in dispoving the fact where you avoided dealing with the Hebraic.

that you are not permitted to teach here according to the established "law" of this forum

Seeing that it has been claimed that I am somehow NOT a member of the forum/not able to "teach" based on your false view that not having a Messsianic icon automatically makes one not Messianic...an argument you conveniently tried to use this thread simply because of where you were addressed for having a view that wasn't in line with Jewish history...here are some basic things to consider.


As said elsewhere....Here for the Messianic forum - it has never been the case that someone who identifies as a Messianic ceased being Messianic because they noted where they loved the Church/Christianity - nor was it the case that anything done by those Messianic Jews/Gentiles choosing to have a non-Messianic icon (in showing something else on their identity) were allowed something that EVERY SINGLE MESSIANIC POSTER HERE IS WAS NOT ALREADY GIVEN!!!!!

And moreover, it's already the case that others complaining have already shown a willingness to promote the concept when it pertains to others whom they may agree with. I am reminded of another LONG-TIME and OLDER member/Messianic (Gentile, if I'm not mistaken) who shared some things years ago - Brother - in what his own experience was...as said here:

I believe too that a MJO thread should be the exception rather than the general rule.

When I first joined CF, MJ's were prohibited from discussing their beliefs with me. I was starving for dialogue with MJ's, was polite but was not allowed to discuss the reasons or supporting scriptures, for others or my beliefs.

After 2 yrs, I and 3 others were given special permission to join the MJ dialogue here. Then ownership and rules changed again.

Not every person neatly fits in to nice tidy categories and focusing on them creates further division divisions.

And what about folks that have the proper scrolls but clearly don't agree with SOF's of major MJ governing bodies? Will people start voting on whether they think a person is a genuine and sincere MJ?

Being exposed to differing POV's has challenged me to read scripture further and is sometimes uncomfortable. It helps ward of complacency too.

We do have mechanisms in place already to protect against outright flaming and hate spreading. Public opinion also helps folks people know where they stand. Like sexual harrassment, people have different levels of sensitivity and comfort levels. Say "ouch" or hit the report button if they persist.

Why not provide a reminder link for open tag definition. Not everyone wants to sign up to be PM'd

You know, in all of the forums here, members are forbidden to state or imply that another Christian is "not Christian" or is "less of a Christian". As far a Christian Forums is concerned a "major" Christian denomination is no more Christian than a small group who meet in a "house Church".

I think we all need to realize that just as in main-stream Christianity (what ever that is) there are many diversities, just as there are many diversities within the MJ community; no doubt there are also many diversities within the "major" MJ communities as well.

​

He has shared multiple times before on his value for Messianic culture/experience in the Messianic Jewish world ( #21 #16 #39 ) - yet I noticed zero people (as it concerns complaints given by some) harping on him whenever he shared on the Torah/support for it or Messianic Jewish culture while also identifying with being a Christian....but somehow, it seems examples like this and many others (the individual known as Desert Rose also coming to mind from her EXTENSIVE posting experience) are often forgotten in history when you come to the heat of things and have pre-existing issues with others which may cause others to lean more so toward partiality/inaccurate scales.

The forum SoP rules don't allow for you to ignore things you've been doing (i.e. Not discriminating against other Messianic Jews/Messianic Gentiles who share their appreciation/identification with the Church or Christianity, not claiming other Messianic Jews/Messianic Gentiles who work in Churches are "Non-Messianic", choosing to judge others/lashon hara, etc.). The claim that others are "non-Messianic" simply because of an icon is foolish since it's already the case where the equivalent of icons are done when it comes to what is noted in their monikers and signatures/Bios. And for those Messianics wishing to also show where they identify as Christians, there are ways to go about that - but it'll never be an issue where you can claim a Messianic who also identifies with Christianity is "non-Messianic" or not a member of the forum.

There was more brought up in the thread entitled Is anybody that accepts "Christ" considered a "Christian"? ( #3/ #103 /#106 ) - as you noted there:

Originally Posted by MessianicMommy

Other than some differences in beliefs and practice, the meaning of "Christian" and "Messianic" is pretty much synonymous. It means someone who follows Messiah.

So, if you "accept Christ" and follow him... yeah.
​

Why it's difficult for others to see that......it's amazing. But the bottom line is that it's unscriptural to do as you do with false accusations.



http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+16:11&version=NKJV

Proverbs 16:11
Honest weights and scales are the Lord’s; All the weights in the bag are His work.

Exodus 20:16
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Deuteronomy 5:20
‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

 

[daq]

Sorry, I'm not biting






Incorrect - and it is apparent you don't understand established "law" of the forum when speaking as you do - for it is still apparent you do not know how to listen before speaking, seeing that others are permitted to teach so long as they are Messianic/identify as such and support the SoP - and nothing has ever been said against that for other Messianic Jews/Gentiles (i.e. Contra Mundum, Daughter of Ararat, SGM4HIM, etc.) who've long noted that. None of them have ceased identifying as Messianic Jewish or Messianic Gentile when noting where they also identify with parts of Christendom (as they note their Messianic association in both CONTENT as well as monikers, SIGNATURES and BIOS). The same has long been present with myself - evidenced in signature and BIO that has not changed for years and noticed where I am in Messianic Judaism - and identified with Oriential Orthodoxy. ...consequently the reason why I address Messianic issues when they come up..

My bio already has the Messianic fellowship I've attended for years - long before I HAD a Messianic icon. And it has not changed since I chose the Oriential Orthodox icon to show where I also work with those in OO Culture/identify with them.

And it's why you trying to escape out dealing with scripture on a faulty basis/false argument is FULTILE. If one's going to try being opportunistic, one can at least be open on it rather than trying to act otherwise - or use selective argumentation that will never line up.

Seriously, pay attention better next time - and as said before, if you cannot deal with scripture, don't try to be opportunistic in avoiding it as if someone identifying with a part of the Church as well as Messianic makes them no longer Messianic. That shows one's desperate rather than able to address credibly what's said

Proverbs 18:12-14Proverbs 18
He who answers a matter before he hears it,
It is folly and shame to him.

Proverbs 25:18
A man who bears false witness against his neighbor Is like a club, a sword, and a sharp arrow

​

Whether or not you choose to address/live that scripture out is on you - but it doesn't change where you've yet to address scripture from earlier - instead trying a weak argument that has never been in play for any other Messianic on the thread in ages - and nowhere in play here since it cannot be shown at ANY point in history or time where I have not identified/continued to identify as Messianic. Hopefully, since you bumped it up, you can address scripture - but again, the attempts at distraction/red-herring are not going to help you in dispoving the fact where you avoided dealing with the Hebraic.

As for the previous "debate" you already lost it because you do not believe the Scriptures that were quoted to you. Likewise, as was already stated, No man speaking by the Spirit of the Father calls Yeshua "cut off" or "excommunicated", (even for a "split second"). Your theology is nothing more than a "sin cloak" for your ongoing deeds. In the great day when the Most High opens all of the books you will not be able to hide yourself as you do now. Then shall we see who has born false witness and who is an accuser of the brethren.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

As for the previous "debate" you already lost it because you do not believe the Scriptures

that were quoted to you.

Incorrect - as usual - as nothing said deals remotely with the fact that others already addressed scripture in context (part of showing belief in it) and handled every scripture you brought up point for point as they are - not randomly throwing them out

As said before, you've already skipped past what the Judaic worldview was on scripture and an argument via appeal to emotion does not suffice...and never will. As said before, unless you actually deal with where scripture was already addressed on the matter, the thread is pointless being brought up except in having a desire to address something that was already tackled

Likewise, as was already stated, No man speaking by the Spirit of the Father calls Yeshua "cut off" or "excommunicated", (even for a "split second"). Your theology is nothing more than a "sin cloak" for your ongoing deeds. In the great day when the Most High opens all of the books you will not be able to hide yourself as you do now. Then shall we see who has born false witness and who is an accuser of the brethren.

As said before, no amount of raging past what scripture says will ever change the bottom line fact that the 1st century Jewish body of believers already noted plainly where Yeshua was cut off - as Isaiah 53 and many other passages already note directly - with no man claiming to speak by the Spirit of the Lord claiming Yeshua could not have experienced separation. Anything counter to that will always be outside the realm of what they deemed "orthodox" - and thus, it is by your OWN innovative view that you can even attempt to claim such. It is what it is...

That said, on the other commentary, prayerfully you have something substantial beyond the useless attempts at ad-hominem as if that gets you anywhere in logical debate/discussion. For anyone can do the equivalent of "Yo Mama!!!" jokes when it comes to theological discussion - but addressing scripture point for point, in the context it occurred in, is another issue altogether. As you've not even been able to do that much, I'd be cautious in how quick the term "cloak" gets thrown out by yourself - for it is evident you have been hiding from scripture and have tended to run to making attempts at ridicule on the poster when cornered rather than dealing with the scripture. And when scripture has yet to be addressed by yourself, it's a matter of hiding - in attempt to take a platform that what one offers has never before been heard and "needs to be heard" for whatever deep truth it presents itself as ....when it's more than distraction/nothing new than before when the thread was left alone last year I doubt you know who is or isn't in the Most High's books when it is already the case you ignored what He said directly of himself in The Book we have - but it is always easier to make grandiose claims than stay focused on scripture..

Bravado will never get you anywhere - and attempts at distractions when called out don't tend to make good points in logical debate..so it's best to leave it alone. For to continue doing so is simply what was noted earlier: engagement in Red-Herring.

 

[Shimshon]

Since you still do not appear to understand that you are not permitted to teach here according to the established "law" of this forum please allow me to clarify once more:

"Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry."

Proverbs 18:12 - Before destruction a man's heart is haughty, but humility comes before honor.
Proverbs 22:24 - "Scoffer" is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.

You speak of a log in ones eyes yet yours is knocking everyone else down.

What you are doing, hopfully out of ignorance, is slandering a current longstanding member of the MJ forum, who has interacted with staff for numerous years, in harmony with 'the rules'.

What you seem to be ignorant of is, first, the way you treat others displays the make-up of your inner heart. You appear arroagnt and proud, and boast against that which is in error.

Originally Posted by Tishri1

I go here
Baruch Haba! Welcome! : Kehilat Ariel Messianic Synagogue
​

Originally Posted by Gxg(G2)
Shalom, Tishri1. Nice to meet you and see where you blossom

My garden's at Congregation Miskan David..and by extension, the study group connected with it known as Mivdad Shem HaKodesh ( here, where I'm one of the assistant leaders/deacons)--and I happen to connect well with other MJish believers who have a love for Holy Hip Hop ( #21 / #1 ) and houses of prayer

http://www.christianforums.com/t7641369-6/#post60095016

You should check this thread out before you make further allusions to Easy's particiapation in Messianic Judaism and his 'accepted' participation in this forum by multiple staff members.

Notice too, "where I am one of the assistant leaders/deacons". He is not only a member of a Messianic 'JEWISH' congregation, he is an assistant leader in another Messianic JEWISH study group. And this was identified to staff administrators over a year ago.

Yet you are the one braking the rules by attacking his personal particiaption, implying he is NOT a member of Messianic JUDAISM with no rights to post in this Messianic Jewish forum.

Which leads me to the next rule your breaking.

Again, from the same thread;

Who is MJ enough: This one is easy too; note our rule and the parts which I highlighted in red, and my notes in green:

Flaming and Harassment
&#9679; Do not insult, belittle, mock, goad, personally attack, threaten, harass, or use derogatory nicknames in reference to other members or groups of members. Address the context of the post, not the poster.
&#9679; If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button. Do not report another member out of spite.
&#9679; Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian. (My note: MJs are considered Christians, this rule includes stating or implying that some are not or less MJ/Christian than others)
&#9679; Those who do not adhere to the Statement of Faith are welcome as members and participants in discussions, but you are required to respect these beliefs, even if you do not share them. (This addresses the trinity)
&#9679; Do not make another member's experience on this site miserable. This includes, making false accusations or persistently attacking them in the open forums.
&#9679; Respect another member's request to cease personal contact.
​

If a non member is present and being disruptive; report them. If you believe that someone is using an icon of convenience to disrupt your forum; report them. State your reasons in the report, and staff will review it, and action it accordingly... it's what we do!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7641369/#post60122568
Notice; MJs are considered Christians, this rule includes stating or implying that some are not or less MJ/Christian than others.

The proper action would be to report him, not attack him in the open forum with 'your not even a member here, you have no right to post'. Which makes one wonder if you are selectively ignoring the truth, or have an agenda.

If you will take note here, your 'assumption' that was leveled at Easy is false even according to administration.

Originally Posted by Tishri1 Site wide we have not considered this since the icon witch hunt days

Possibly we can dialogue with staff on maybe restricting posting to 4 month after an icon change....for example if I change icons to MJ then for another 4 months i can only post fellowship posts in there

but there is no way to monitor everyone so someone whould need to report one of the members posts to alert us of the icon change
Originally Posted by Avodat

Is there any movement on stopping Icons of Convenience? I have suggested several times that a simple ban on changing icons (especially for people new to CF) for 6 months would save us from this problem.
Posters can monitor any new faces that change their icon and report them for Mods to deal with as appropriate. If a few words of text were put in the SoP about this it would lend some official backing to it. We can advise would-be Messianics that they must wait 6 months before they can change an icon - if they are only here to stir things up that would put them off, I'm sure.
This is really going to be needed if new people begin to mis-understand what the Hebrew/Christian icon is all about.

Can we also have, at the head of the forum, where it says it is for Messianic Jews & Gentile, a clear statement that new posters should read the SoP before posting. Almost ALL new posters have NOT read it and so get annoyed when we have to stop them in their tracks and point them back to it. All this needs is a few words: "Please read the SoP before posting in this forum".
​

There have not been icon witch hunts in years. Though I see many here are striving to reinstitute the hunts.

If your interested in following the 'law' of the forum. Read the thread I have been quoting, and all the comments by 'staff' about how YOU are supposed to get along with others of different obervance levels. Staff has also long allowed other icons to post in here as long as the poster participates in a Messinaic Jewish lifestyle, be it from within a church or from within a synagogue.

The fact remains, segregation comes not from the less observant, but from the orthodox. Who continually try to weed out those they see as 'not right enough' for them.

So please, cease from your line of attack, which employs falsehoods and flat out lies to prove your erroneous point. That some here are not Jewish enough, or obervant enough to post here. THAT is against the rules. However, Easy's posting is surely NOT, as proved by years of posting within the forum, AND his active participation as a leader in a Messianic Jewish study group and congregation.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If your interested in following the 'law' of the forum. Read the thread I have been quoting, and all the comments by 'staff' about how YOU are supposed to get along with others of different obervance levels. Staff has also long allowed other icons to post in here as long as the poster participates in a Messinaic Jewish lifestyle, be it from within a church or from within a synagogue.

The fact remains, segregation comes not from the less observant, but from the orthodox. Who continually try to weed out those they see as 'not right enough' for them.
.

Although you said more - all of which I appreciated/thought was noteworthy - thanks again for sharing the facts as they are...and for being committed to the truth as a whole rather than pieces of it to make something else.

I am still wondering how in the world this old thread got bumped for the sake of a side-discussion/distraction that didn't address where scripture was originally avoided on Yeshua. But stranger things have happened...

 

[Shimshon]

Although you said more - all of which I appreciated/thought was noteworthy - thanks again for sharing the facts as they are...and for being committed to the truth as a whole rather than pieces of it to make something else.

I am still wondering how in the world this old thread got bumped for the sake of a side-discussion/distraction that didn't address where scripture was originally avoided on Yeshua. But stranger things have happened...

You know, I would also like to note that not 'all' orthodox are this way. As YOU are an orthodox believer yourself, yet you do not have the 'traditional' orthodox praxis of 'we are right and everyone else is wrong, don't you know?!' How astounding is that?

CM too..... so to note, I was not intending to make a 'blanket' statement. Blankets make great smoke signals, no?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

You know, I would also like to note that not 'all' orthodox are this way. As YOU are an orthodox believer yourself, yet you do not have the 'traditional' orthodox praxis of 'we are right and everyone else is wrong, don't you know?!' How astounding is that?

Just as there are others in the Messianic world assuming "We all are the ones who alone are right - and no others are correct!!" - so it is with various other groups within Christendom (from Fundamentalists to Evangelicals and many others) who do the same... including Orthodoxy. Too often people take encounters with others in a group that are negative and place them onto EVERYONE - and in a note of correction, Traditional Orthodox praxis is NEVER meant to be a matter of assuming the Lord can never work in places outside of Orthodoxy...for as the saying goes "We know where God is - we don't know where He isn't"....and the traditional Orthodox praxis that was valued in the early church and by numerous other Orthodox parishes/groups is that we believe we have the Fullness of Truth (i.e. all the tools necessary needed to live a life of holiness/godliness, the most accurate/consistent and historical representation of what the body of believers was like, etc.) - but the Lord is still sovereign/working with others who may not be aware of what was available in the early body of believers for growth and development. For myself, that also goes for discovering/learning on the Hebraic/Jewish culture and customs that many have forgotten today - including in many parts of the Orthodox world. Many Orthodox groups/individuals have noted this to be problematic and have thankfully sought to address this..as discussed elsewhere on the boards ( #10 #11 #15 ) - and if interested, here's something from the perspective of an interesting Jewish Orthodox Christian Priest..one who's both is both Orthodox and yet UnOrthodox at the same time due to where he may differ from others in certain things relating to the Jewish culture. I could definately relate, seeing how much of what he experienced is very akin to what I've seen with other Jewish believers

Depending on the experience of whatever group/version you come in contact with will determine whether or not you got the right version...or are in need of more exposure...

Believing that the group you are with has the most accurate representation of what believers held true to is not the same as thinking that the Lord cannot work in other places ...and sadly, people do stereotype rather than dealing with others where they are.

With that comes the reality that there'll be anomalies in EVERY group - those whom others consider to be outlier - and on top of that comes the reality that you can have differences of thought WITHIN a group. Sometimes, it can feel as if you're an anomaly or a maverick where you're at when you wish to have your own mind/your own thoughts on a certain issue rather than conform solely to what one group may understand---and to be clear, that has occurred even at the Messianic Fellowship I'm at since there are disagreements even amongst the members there on certain things (although I'm far closer in thought with them than other places despite any differences, as shared in #21 and #30 ).

CM too..... so to note, I was not intending to make a 'blanket' statement. Blankets make great smoke signals, no?

Sometimes blankets can do more damage than good when they conceal things which others may not know of...

 

[daq]

Proverbs 18:12 - Before destruction a man's heart is haughty, but humility comes before honor.
Proverbs 22:24 - "Scoffer" is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.

You speak of a log in ones eyes yet yours is knocking everyone else down.

What you are doing, hopfully out of ignorance, is slandering a current longstanding member of the MJ forum, who has interacted with staff for numerous years, in harmony with 'the rules'.

What you seem to be ignorant of is, first, the way you treat others displays the make-up of your inner heart. You appear arroagnt and proud, and boast against that which is in error.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7641369-6/#post60095016

You should check this thread out before you make further allusions to Easy's particiapation in Messianic Judaism and his 'accepted' participation in this forum by multiple staff members.

Notice too, "where I am one of the assistant leaders/deacons". He is not only a member of a Messianic 'JEWISH' congregation, he is an assistant leader in another Messianic JEWISH study group. And this was identified to staff administrators over a year ago.

Yet you are the one braking the rules by attacking his personal particiaption, implying he is NOT a member of Messianic JUDAISM with no rights to post in this Messianic Jewish forum.

Which leads me to the next rule your breaking.

Again, from the same thread; http://www.christianforums.com/t7641369/#post60122568
Notice; MJs are considered Christians, this rule includes stating or implying that some are not or less MJ/Christian than others.

The proper action would be to report him, not attack him in the open forum with 'your not even a member here, you have no right to post'. Which makes one wonder if you are selectively ignoring the truth, or have an agenda.

If you will take note here, your 'assumption' that was leveled at Easy is false even according to administration.

There have not been icon witch hunts in years. Though I see many here are striving to reinstitute the hunts.

If your interested in following the 'law' of the forum. Read the thread I have been quoting, and all the comments by 'staff' about how YOU are supposed to get along with others of different obervance levels. Staff has also long allowed other icons to post in here as long as the poster participates in a Messinaic Jewish lifestyle, be it from within a church or from within a synagogue.

The fact remains, segregation comes not from the less observant, but from the orthodox. Who continually try to weed out those they see as 'not right enough' for them.

So please, cease from your line of attack, which employs falsehoods and flat out lies to prove your erroneous point. That some here are not Jewish enough, or obervant enough to post here. THAT is against the rules. However, Easy's posting is surely NOT, as proved by years of posting within the forum, AND his active participation as a leader in a Messianic Jewish study group and congregation.

It is you who now slanders me because I spoke the truth. You only reveal that you are a respecter of the persons of men because apparently your doctrine agrees with this other one whom you now side with and protect against your brother. It is not myself who is rebelliously continuing to debate, argue, teach, and tear down anyone else who disagrees with my theology. In addition to this fact he has clearly changed his Ikon image of himself, (the "log" in his eye which you also do not understand because it represents your idol or carved log-image of yourself). Shimshon finally understood such things and in the end the Most High gave him that one last once of strength to break down the pillars of his own Philistine idols and temples which he had married himself into.

 

[Shimshon]

It is you who now slanders me because I spoke the truth.

wrong again.... My whole post pointed out your error. But you continue to push it. BTW, Shimshon is more than a screen name, it's my real name. Care to make any more allusions to my character that I can report? Because your not supposed to be arguing about the person, as I pointed out. Your supposed to be arguing the issue. The issue is NOT his icons, it's your calling him out that he is not supposed to be here. Care to actually follow the rules of engagement here, and let people be who they are, and debate the 'real' issue instead of throwing out red herrings all over the place? You don't seem to be able to speak without making insults or belittling the poster you disgree with.

 

[daq]

wrong again.... My whole post pointed out your error. But you continue to push it. BTW, Shimshon is more than a screen name, it's my real name. Care to make any more allusions to my character that I can report? Because your not supposed to be arguing about the person, as I pointed out. Your supposed to be arguing the issue. The issue is NOT his icons, it's your calling him out that he is not supposed to be here. Care to actually follow the rules of engagement here, and let people be who they are, and debate the 'real' issue instead of throwing out red herrings all over the place? You don't seem to be able to speak without making insults or belittling the poster you disgree with.

Wrong again on your own part because the issue is calling out others and insinuating that others are on the "fringes" of Hebrew understanding just because they disagree. Why do you suppose I chose this thread? Have you read none of it? And now the same person doing such things is not even a member of this Faith Group anymore and yet continues to teach and debate in violation of the SOP. It does not matter how long he has been a member or how much you agree with his theology.

PS ~ As far as your screen name or real name it was not my intent to offend your "real name" and I do apologize if I did, (but what I said about Samson remains true). However, it is not up to me to go find out if you are using your real name especially when it is the same as one found in the Scripture. Am I not allowed to speak of portions of the Scripture now just because your name is also found there? If you are using your real name that is on yourself and not my burden. In addition I did not say anything derogatory about your name and what I stated concerning Shimshon was only good. And the fact that you reported such petty a thing reveals enough about your character that allusions are not necessary.

Likewise it is a violation of the site-wide rules to report someone out of spite. Although it is not possible or proper to judge such a thing it is still very clear that the only other time we have ever spoken was the following GT thread, where you were clearly teaching against Torah and shown to be the better part of incorrect, over seven months ago: Do Jews practice stoning today per the OT? - Replies #19-49 and I certainly hope for your own sake that you have not been holding a grudge that long.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Care to actually follow the rules of engagement here, and let people be who they are, and debate the 'real' issue instead of throwing out red herrings all over the place? You don't seem to be able to speak without making insults or belittling the poster you disgree with.

Sad to say - despite where the rules were plainly outlined and where there was already notice by multiple other Messianic Jews/Gentiles in the same situation who all have been clear on the matter, it is...and will always be...a pity when one chooses to resort to a false argument that'll never hold water because it was a caricature/false scenario from the beginning. There was never a time when someone ceased being a member of the Messianic Faith Group simply because of an icon change - just as it is not the case Contra ceased being a Messianic member because he changed his icon to a Christian Cross since he already noted directly in his signature/moniker where he is Messianic Jewish - even though he also openly identified years ago his affiliation with the Anglican Church (more shared here, here, here, here , here, here, and here /here) as early as the 9th of August 2007 - and back in 2011. The same has always applied for other Messianics doing the same - as I have chosen to follow Contra/others' example by showing what part of the Church I identify with in addition to Messianic Judaism...with the Messianic Judaism aspect seen in my own signature and my BIO information remaining consistent for years in being Messianic.

People speaking against that do nothing more than spread slander - as well as violation of the SOP since it violates the rules of judging others and slander not allowed. It doesn't matter whether or not one claims to be "Messianic" with the Messianic icon if/when those basic things are avoided - for those doing so are inconsistent with the things they may claim to value.

And it shows agenda rather than a desire to really discuss. And it'll always be a pity if one has to resort to pettiness when it comes to discussion (be it because they just enjoy it - or because they feel offended at being called out when/if they desired to "correct" anyone disagreeing with them and found themselves corrected when others noted that they weren't saying what was consistent with Jewish culture).

 

[HannibalFlavius]

A FALSE CHRIST:

I do not post this out of harmful intentions but to reveal some very shocking spiritual truth that you just need to listen!

I hope you all can listen to this if your truly do Love the Lord Jesus and Love His Word! Most of you have not heard such outrageous things before! But what Johanna has stated is true coming from her experience in the occult!

Watch and listen if you can so you know and not be blind!

So examine yourself and your theology if you are believing what is Biblical! EG Catholic theology, You don't need Jesus you can be save if your a born a Jew, Just believing in the OT will give you salvation and so on.

Yes even we examine our theology if it is scripture or not and not just believe blindly that well if you die you can go to purgatory a place for a 2nd chance to get into heaven.

As Jews you should be right on top of this as for the Christians leaders committed to theological truth! Not just again say it does not concern you and so forget about it.

If it does not concern you then you should join arms with the New Age and practice your belief with them, if spiritual issues is not of your concern. Or just get into the occult for they can fill you with spiritual insights and longing that you want to exp! But it won't be from Christ! This is what Catholic theology has done for example or what Jews with out Jesus have done.

But the far more dangerous issue is a false Christ! How many of you are aware of this dangerous issue hitting every church in the World?

Some of you who read this will not be happy but that is good you need to hear it too, its the truth!

Are you for Christ or are you out to led Gods Flock astray?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Qy1j2LBmU

I don't know who could watch this women, I know that I couldn't.

To begin with she is a woman.

Right off the bat she tries to convince us that she is no scholar but that she asked somebody.

She sounds like she is going into making 2 Thessalonians something its not.

The lawless man is just that.

In the first 5 min she mentions Kenneth Copeland, and that's where I grinned and turned it off.

Do people really still listen to Kenneth Copeland?

Really?

 

[juleamager]

I don't know who could watch this women, I know that I couldn't.

To begin with she is a woman.

Right off the bat she tries to convince us that she is no scholar but that she asked somebody.

She sounds like she is going into making 2 Thessalonians something its not.

The lawless man is just that.

In the first 5 min she mentions Kenneth Copeland, and that's where I grinned and turned it off.

Do people really still listen to Kenneth Copeland?

Really?

My mother listens to him. Daily and religiously.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

My mother listens to him. Daily and religiously.

I don't get it.

Its not like I haven't heard 200 sermons by Copeland when I was a Pentecostal but it didn't take long for me to drop that.

I have never heard him teach on anything but money.

Anybody who seeks to find a way of justifying living luxuriously will find it.
Anybody who wants to rationalize their misdeeds will find a way.

I'm just assuming that this woman is going into a teaching about 2 Thess and the man of perdition, the lawless one.

Anybody who had tosses away the law will find a way to rationalize this scripture of lawlessness will find a way.

The scripture is about people who sit in the place of God speaking against the law of God, proving that they are God.

Its not talking about a single individual, its talking about the man of sin in everyone, and his being revealed.,

People are walking temples to themselves, and when they have rejected the laws of God, they sit in their temple against everything that is called of God because a great falling away has taken place.

Its Ironic that somebody with the mentality who stands behind Kenneth Copeland is going to teach about the lawless one who has done away with the ways of God.

A Christian's responsibility is to live in humility, to feed the widows, the orphans, Period.

Jesus talks about people who live for the gain of money and it aint good.