Why do atheists get married?

[Cachook]

The bible is considered somethings by some people and it has a completely different meaning (or should I say lack of meaning) to many others.

Even many people who call themselves christians for convenience or out of habit, don't believe the bible is a credible book.

As much as you atheists like to say it, that is an argument ad populum, and while many Christians disregard the Bible, you are steering the thread off topic.

 

[Skaloop]

Oh I love that, philosophy!

So, an atheist has nothing else to do, but not believing into god, so to speak?
So, you believe in nothing at all, literally speaking.

No, that's definitely not literally speaking.

I'm asking because there is the saying: "One can't believe in nothing". I mean, if it's not god, then it is i.e. science you believe in. (Or vampires, as you seem to like vampires. )

I don't much care for vampires. It was just a comparison that came to mind. I definitely don't believe they exist.

As for science, I believe in it inasmuch as I accept that it exists as a method of studying things. You also believe in science (I would hope).

 

[essentialsaltes]

So, an atheist has nothing else to do, but not believing into god, so to speak?

Correct.

So, you believe in nothing at all, literally speaking?

No. Presumably you don't believe in a literal Santa Claus, but this does not mean you believe in nothing at all.

Atheists do not believe in any gods (more or less by definition) but this doesn't mean that atheists don't have any beliefs at all.

Atheists can believe that coffee is tasty, or that coffee is not tasty. The only requirement for being an atheists is not-believing in any gods.

I mean, if it's not god, then it is i.e. science you believe in. (Or vampires, as you seem to like vampires.

This is another strange misunderstanding. If you do not believe in Santa Claus, that doesn't mean that you believe in some other thing that fills that empty hole in your mind.

I do not believe in any gods, and that does not mean I have an empty god-shaped hole that has to have something else plugged into it. You should try to realize the truth. There is no hole.

 

[Esdra]

Cool answers.
Okay, my questions were rather stupid I guess.

So "simply" no believe in any gods, period.

But to the hole:
In the Hierarhcy of needs of Maslow, at the very top is transcendence.
So, religion is transcendes. Now, if you say that you don't believe in religion and god, how do you feed the need of transcendence?
(And I guess this was the point I wanted to get to in the previous post.)

 

[essentialsaltes]

But to the hole:
In the Hierarhcy of needs of Maslow, at the very top is transcendence.

First of all, Maslow's theory is not universally accepted.
"While the hierarchy remains a very popular framework in sociology research and secondary and higher psychology instruction, it has largely been supplanted by attachment theory in graduate and clinical psychology and psychiatry."


Second of all, at the very top of the hierarchy is self-actualization:

""What a man can be, he must be."[11] This quotation forms the basis of the perceived need for self-actualization. This level of need refers to what a person's full potential is and the realization of that potential. Maslow describes this level as the desire to accomplish everything that one can, to become the most that one can be.[12] Individuals may perceive or focus on this need very specifically. For example, one individual may have the strong desire to become an ideal parent. In another, the desire may be expressed athletically. For others, it may be expressed in paintings, pictures, or inventions."

These goals or needs do not require religion.

 

[quatona]

Cool answers.
Okay, my questions were rather stupid I guess.

So "simply" no believe in any gods, period.

There aren´t any stupid questions.
It´s great you consider the answers given.

But to the hole:
In the Hierarhcy of needs of Maslow, at the very top is transcendence.
So, religion is transcendes. Now, if you say that you don't believe in religion and god, how do you feed the need of transcendence?
(And I guess this was the point I wanted to get to in the previous post.)

Apart from the fact that originally "self-actualization" (Selbstverwirklichung) was on top of his hierarchy of needs [and not until the ´70s he replaced it by "transcendence" (Transzendenz)], I suspect that no atheist (and probably no inquiring non-atheist thinkers) are going to accept Maslow as an unquestionable authority, particularly when - later in his life - he decided to make theism a premise of his ideas.
In other words: Maslow said this - so what? I don´t agree with him.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Second of all, at the very top of the hierarchy is...

Oh, I see that later he added self-transcendence. Well, was his original theory right, or the later one? Or neither, since it has apparently been abandoned by most psychologists?

A separate description of self-transcendence describes it as having four "subdimensions":

1. Spiritual and religious beliefs (e.g. belief in the existence of a higher power)
2. Unifying interconnectedness (i.e. an experienced sense of connection with other living beings, the environment, and a higher power)
3. Belief in the supernatural (e.g. belief in paranormal phenomena, such as extrasensory perception)
4. Dissolution of Self in experience (e.g. absorption, or a loss of sense of separate self while immersed in experience).

All of these (even the first) are available to the atheist.

 

[Esdra]

First of all, Maslow's theory is not universally accepted.
"While the hierarchy remains a very popular framework in sociology research and secondary and higher psychology instruction, it has largely been supplanted by attachment theory in graduate and clinical psychology and psychiatry."


Second of all, at the very top of the hierarchy is self-actualization:

""What a man can be, he must be."[11] This quotation forms the basis of the perceived need for self-actualization. This level of need refers to what a person's full potential is and the realization of that potential. Maslow describes this level as the desire to accomplish everything that one can, to become the most that one can be.[12] Individuals may perceive or focus on this need very specifically. For example, one individual may have the strong desire to become an ideal parent. In another, the desire may be expressed athletically. For others, it may be expressed in paintings, pictures, or inventions."

These goals or needs do not require religion.

Exciting, really.

But I have learned at school that every human strives to transcendence as his highest need.
It doesn't say on the English wikipedia, but the German wikipedia writes, that Maslow changed his concept at 1970, and put transcendence as highest aim of a human.

it says there:
"the highest need is "transcendence", this means the search forGod, to search for a self-transcending dimension, or something that is outside of sience. This changed concept marks Maslow's way from humanistic to transpersonal psychology. Although usually the date,1970, is given, the pyramid of needs is often printed in the old version in literature, with self-actualization on its top.
(Hope I translated it not too badly. )

 

[Esdra]

Oh, I see that later he added self-transcendence. Well, was his original theory right, or the later one? Or neither, since it has apparently been abandoned by most psychologists?

A separate description of self-transcendence describes it as having four "subdimensions":

1. Spiritual and religious beliefs (e.g. belief in the existence of a higher power)
2. Unifying interconnectedness (i.e. an experienced sense of connection with other living beings, the environment, and a higher power)
3. Belief in the supernatural (e.g. belief in paranormal phenomena, such as extrasensory perception)
4. Dissolution of Self in experience (e.g. absorption, or a loss of sense of separate self while immersed in experience).

All of these (even the first) are available to the atheist.

Really? But isn't a higher power a god?
I thought an Atheist doesn't believe in any gods?

 

[Skaloop]

Really? But isn't a higher power a god?
I thought an Atheist doesn't believe in any gods?

Not necessarily. A higher power needn't be a god. That was one example. But many Buddhists, for example, do not believe in a god, but do have spiritual and religious beliefs.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Really? But isn't a higher power a god?

The thing I quoted said e.g. belief in a higher power, not i.e. belief in a higher power. Belief in a higher power is only an example. There are 'spiritualities' and religions that have no higher powers. Or as Skaloop suggests, there are higher powers that are not necessarily gods.

 

[quatona]

Exciting, really.

But I have learned at school that every human strives to transcendence as his highest need.
It doesn't say on the English wikipedia, but the German wikipedia writes, that Maslow changed his concept at 1970, and put transcendence as highest aim of a human.

it says there:
"the highest need is "transcendence", this means the search forGod, to search for a self-transcending dimension, or something that is outside of sience. This changed concept marks Maslow's way from humanistic to transpersonal psychology. Although usually the date,1970, is given, the pyramid of needs is often printed in the old version in literature, with self-actualization on its top.
(Hope I translated it not too badly. )

From a fellow German: It´s not too bad.
However, I am not sure I understand why you translated "etwas, das außerhalb des beobachtbaren Systems liegt" (something that lies beyond the observable system) into "outside of science".

Whatever. I´d kindly ask you to answer this question:
What´s the reason I should accept Maslow as an authority (and, even more precise,. why should I accept the later Maslow as an authority rather than the early Maslow)?

 

[QueSi]

Why do atheists get married?

I have wondered this for some time now; and I'm just asking out of curiosity.

That seems like such a strange question, I assume for the same basic reason as people of every other religion.

 

[bhsmte]

As much as you atheists like to say it, that is an argument ad populum, and while many Christians disregard the Bible, you are steering the thread off topic.

If someone keeps quoting the bible, I am going to respond.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Cool answers.
Okay, my questions were rather stupid I guess.

So "simply" no believe in any gods, period.

But to the hole:
In the Hierarhcy of needs of Maslow, at the very top is transcendence.
So, religion is transcendes. Now, if you say that you don't believe in religion and god, how do you feed the need of transcendence?
(And I guess this was the point I wanted to get to in the previous post.)

That's assuming transcendence can only be accomplished by strictly religious means. It can also be achieved through purposeful meditation, which doesn't necessarily have a theistic component. It can be achieved through art and music and even by the feeling of wonder that comes from studying the natural world.

It is often argued that the atheist must lead a spiritually impoverished life. Although the word "spiritual" tends to have supernatural connotations, Sam Harris has argued that the spiritual need not be conceived of in purely supernatural terms. Atheists have spiritual (or transcendent) experiences. Their lives are not impoverished by the lack of theism.

 

[Skaloop]

That's assuming transcendence can only be accomplished by strictly religious means. It can also be achieved through purposeful meditation, which doesn't necessarily have a theistic component. It can be achieved through art and music and even by the feeling of wonder that comes from studying the natural world.

It is often argued that the atheist must lead a spiritually impoverished life. Although the word "spiritual" tends to have supernatural connotations, Sam Harris has argued that the spiritual need not be conceived of in purely supernatural terms. Atheists have spiritual (or transcendent) experiences. Their lives are not impoverished by the lack of theism.

Yep, there are all sorts of things that inspire me and leave me in awe. They're personal experiences, and probably wouldn't have the same effect on others, but for me, they are transcendent. Whether it's standing at the peak of a Scottish mountain or swimming or watching a manta ray swim or watching Teller do his shadow illusion Penn & Teller - Shadows - YouTube or seeing George Carlin at his peak or enjoying a delicious pint of beer (to name a few), I've had plenty of transcendent experiences.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yep, there are all sorts of things that inspire me and leave me in awe. They're personal experiences, and probably wouldn't have the same effect on others, but for me, they are transcendent. Whether it's standing at the peak of a Scottish mountain or swimming or watching a manta ray swim or watching Teller do his shadow illusion Penn & Teller - Shadows - YouTube or seeing George Carlin at his peak or enjoying a delicious pint of beer (to name a few), I've had plenty of transcendent experiences.

This is a point that is often lost on our theist friends. I should know, because as a theist, I thought that atheists must lead dull and depressing lives, bereft of beauty and wonder. Theism, I believed, was the only conceivable source of enrichment. Later I discovered that my preconceptions did not align so well with the experience of many atheists who lived happily and decently without religious faith. It's difficult to describe how profoundly this violates one's expectations and leads to all sorts of ad hoc justifications in a vain attempt to preserve the notion that only theism can enrich the soul.

 

[Esdra]

From a fellow German: It´s not too bad.
However, I am not sure I understand why you translated "etwas, das außerhalb des beobachtbaren Systems liegt" (something that lies beyond the observable system) into "outside of science".

Because I didn't know how else to translate it.
And something that lies beyond the observable system is "outside of science", isn't it?
As sciences observe the world, nature, etc.

Whatever. I´d kindly ask you to answer this question:
What´s the reason I should accept Maslow as an authority (and, even more precise,. why should I accept the later Maslow as an authority rather than the early Maslow)?

Well, he seemed to shifted from one psychological school (humanistic psychology) to another (transpersonal psychology.)
My sister is studying psychology, and she's saying (although herself an Atheist), that in psycho-therapy the element of transcendence is important to some clients, and also come up in psycho-therapy sessions.
For example in dreams.

And I've also found out that ALL people strive to believe in something supernatural, or transcendal. And, no, I agree, it doesn't need to be a god.

 

[Esdra]

Yep, there are all sorts of things that inspire me and leave me in awe. They're personal experiences, and probably wouldn't have the same effect on others, but for me, they are transcendent. Whether it's standing at the peak of a Scottish mountain or swimming or watching a manta ray swim or watching Teller do his shadow illusion Penn & Teller - Shadows - YouTube or seeing George Carlin at his peak or enjoying a delicious pint of beer (to name a few), I've had plenty of transcendent experiences.

Very good argument.
I've never seen it that way.
Thank you.

 

[Esdra]

This is a point that is often lost on our theist friends. I should know, because as a theist, I thought that atheists must lead dull and depressing lives, bereft of beauty and wonder. Theism, I believed, was the only conceivable source of enrichment. Later I discovered that my preconceptions did not align so well with the experience of many atheists who lived happily and decently without religious faith. It's difficult to describe how profoundly this violates one's expectations and leads to all sorts of ad hoc justifications in a vain attempt to preserve the notion that only theism can enrich the soul.

I'm also a theist, but I've never believed that atheists lead a dull or depressing life.
They can enjoy nature, or music etc, just as an Theist can.
And I think that Atheists also have at least the same respect towards mother nature and enjoy it, as do Christians, or in general Theists.