No Pleasure Or Good Pleasure?

[Hammster]

That is not my view. I was stating the ramifications of your view. My view is:

1. Faith produced while unrighteous. (by the Word)
2. Imputed righteousness.
3. The righteous regenerated (Righteous children of God)

Why do the righteous need regeneration?

 

[gmm4j]

Why do the righteous need regeneration?

Eternal new spirit life is a result of being righteous in Christ. If you were never made righteous in Christ you would never have spiritual life.

 

[Hammster]

Eternal new spirit life is a result of being righteous in Christ. If you were never made righteous in Christ you would never have spiritual life.

So for you, there's no distinction between imputed righteousness and regeneration.

 

[crimsonleaf]

God gives faith, but how He does this must be discussed. Does He directly twist your will by His Spirit against your will to believe something you don't want to believe?

Let's just discuss the logical implications of that statement. Can a will be made into a will which the first will wills not? If I can't see Christ because I'm blind, is it a violation of my will to let me see?

In my unregenerate state I have no desire for Christ. Neither do I hate Him. I'm indifferent, but He's not on my radar in the sense that He counts for anything in my life. Trust me on that, I know.

In my regenerate state I am enabled to see Him. I can now choose between the infinite joy that awaits me or infinite torment. I choose joy. Has my will been violated? No, it's been made perfect by the introduction of options which were never there before, and I will inevitably pick the option which I desire most - Christ. Only someone wedded to the obsession that "we must choose first" can object to what I've said.

Does He use secondary means? Does He use these secondary means to influence your will? Can the means be resisted? Why are different means recorded in Scripture and some more dramatic than others?

He uses secondary means to spread the word, but primary means to gift the faith. Natural man is unable to self-generate faith, even when secondary means are at work, so God has to be the one who makes the gift.

The most basic way He gives faith is by giving us something to believe in. Gal 3:23-25
Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

No, giving us something to believe in does not guarantee faith. Only God's hand directly upon us can give that guarantee. I don't believe that God works on the basis of chucking as much as He can against a wall in the hope that some will stick, but that should have been apparent by now.

Note that Paul does not say "Before this Gospel came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until the Gospel should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that the Gospel has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law"

No, He talks of the gift of Faith.

 

[gmm4j]

So for you, there's no distinction between imputed righteousness and regeneration.

I've said one results from the other. Righteousness has to do with "goodness" before God. Regeneration has to do with our eternal spiritual position and subsequent spiritual empowerments that come with becoming a spiritual son.

 

[Hammster]

I've said one results from the other. Righteousness has to do with "goodness" before God. Regeneration has to do with our eternal spiritual position and subsequent spiritual empowerments that come with becoming a spiritual son.

So righteous people get regenerated. And they get this righteousness because, while unregenerate (in the flesh), they did something to please God, who I turn rewards their good deed with eternal life.

I'm pretty sure that's not biblical.

 

[jdbrown]

So righteous people get regenerated. And they get this righteousness because, while unregenerate (in the flesh), they did something to please God, who I turn rewards their good deed with eternal life.

I'm pretty sure that's not biblical.

Many synergist (if not all) have regeneration (being born again) confused with sanctification.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And dying on the Cross for people He knows will never receive the benefit, and knowing that they will be condemned in part because they would not receive it, is not cruel?

Doing something for people and then condemning them for not receiving it, is not cruel?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You may have a point there........




.

 

[Arcoe]

Many synergist (if not all) have regeneration (being born again) confused with sanctification.

What do you believe abstaining from wickedness and casting away your transgressions denote?

 

[Hammster]

What do you believe abstaining from wickedness and casting away your transgressions denote?

Being an obedient child of a loving Father.

 

[elman]

So righteous people get regenerated. And they get this righteousness because, while unregenerate (in the flesh), they did something to please God, who I turn rewards their good deed with eternal life.

I'm pretty sure that's not biblical.

I am pretty sure it is. Ezekiel 18

 

[Arcoe]

Being an obedient child of a loving Father.

...in regard to JDBrown's post...

 

[Jack Terrence]

Eternal new spirit life is a result of being righteous in Christ. If you were never made righteous in Christ you would never have spiritual life.

You have put the cart before the horse.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Regeneration has to do with our eternal spiritual position and subsequent spiritual empowerments that come with becoming a spiritual son.

No! Regeneration has to do with the with the seed of spiritual life being implanted into the soul only. The "subsequent spiritual powers" you speak about are given in sanctification.

 

[gmm4j]

No! Regeneration has to do with the with the seed of spiritual life being implanted into the soul only. The "subsequent spiritual powers" you speak about are given in sanctification.

Being born as a son is the beginning of the sanctification process. The sanctification process does not begin before faith and being united to Christ.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Being born as a son is the beginning of the sanctification process. The sanctification process does not begin before faith and being united to Christ.

You are co-mingling regeneration and sanctification. They are totally separate. Regeneration occurs when new life is conceived. That's it. Sanctification has to do with the growth of that life. Regeneration is the CONCEPTION of spiritual life and nothing more.

The child that is conceived in the womb grows because its mother's body nourishes it, and it subsequently acquires powers. The child of God that is conceived in regeneration grows because Christ nourishes him, and he subsequently acquires powers.

 

[gmm4j]

You are co-mingling regeneration and sanctification. They are totally separate. Regeneration occurs when new life is conceived. That's it. Sanctification has to do with the growth of that life. Regeneration is the CONCEPTION of spiritual life and nothing more.

The child that is conceived in the womb grows because its mother's body nourishes it, and it subsequently acquires powers. The child of God that is conceived in regeneration grows because Christ nourishes him, and he subsequently acquires powers.

As I said regeneration is the beginning of the sanctification / growth processs. You said, "The child of God that is conceived in regeneration grows because Christ nourishes him..." How is he a child of God when he is unrighteous and under wrath, still not united to Christ? He must have faith first.

Eph 1:13-14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory.

You are not a child of God included in Christ until you first believe.

Your spirit is dead prior to faith in Christ and the reception of His righteousness.

Rom 8:10
yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

 

[child630]

My son just joined the Army. As he signed up we both felt it was a good decision, but we both knew what was coming up: he'd be leaving home. We anticipated the sadness (the displeasure), but both my best buddy and I supported his decision. On the day he left we were both miserable, even though we were both pleased with the overall plan. So it was our pleasure and our displeasure at the same time. We were willing to go through the displeasure for the sake of our good pleasure.

That's not contradictory. That's just life.

I know that I am nobody. But this post just helped me in my spiritual predicament.

 

[Jack Terrence]

As I said regeneration is the beginning of the sanctification / growth processs.

I know what YOU said and I am not going to entertain it any further. To distinguish between regeneration and sanctification is standard christian teaching.

You said, "The child of God that is conceived in regeneration grows because Christ nourishes him..." How is he a child of God when he is unrighteous and under wrath, still not united to Christ? He must have faith first.

I have answered this before. Paul told the Galatians that they were children of God (minors) and heirs BEFORE faith. They had become full sons by faith. You need to clear your head of all your presuppositions and read Galatians 4 and just accept what it plainly says. Again, one does NOT become a child of God by faith. He becomes a son of God by faith.

Eph 1:13-14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory.

You are not a child of God included in Christ until you first believe.

You are reading into the text. It says NOTHING about you not being a child of God (minor) before you believe.

Your spirit is dead prior to faith in Christ and the reception of His righteousness.

I altogether reject this. I was legally dead before I came to faith in Christ. Paul said that we were made alive WITH Christ. Christ was NOT made alive spiritually. This is the proof that Paul was NOT speaking about regeneration.

Paul was referring to our legal status.

Rom 8:10
yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Legally speaking. It is WITH Christ! Was Christ made alive spiritually?

 

[gmm4j]

I have answered this before. Paul told the Galatians that they were children of God (minors) and heirs BEFORE faith. They had become full sons by faith. You need to clear your head of all your presuppositions and read Galatians 4 and just accept what it plainly says. Again, one does NOT become a child of God by faith. He becomes a son of God by faith. You are reading into the text. It says NOTHING about you not being a child of God (minor) before you believe.

If you want them to be children of God prior to faith then okay. They are children of God who are under wrath, perishing, unrighteous, and dead in their sins enemies of God.

I altogether reject this. I was legally dead before I came to faith in Christ. Paul said that we were made alive WITH Christ. Christ was NOT made alive spiritually. This is the proof that Paul was NOT speaking about regeneration.
Paul was referring to our legal status.
Legally speaking. It is WITH Christ! Was Christ made alive spiritually?

Huh? Jesus didn't need to be made alive spiritually, he was never unrighteous. We were the ones who were separated from life by our unrighteousness. We are the ones who need to be made righteous and restored again to life. Christ made alive spiritually? Not sure about your point.