If you do not eat pork, Christ will profit you nothing

[Rev Randy]

I can go to Denny's and have the meat lovers special and get all three!

Thou shalt not eat eggs.........without pork.

 

[Rev Randy]

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
(Matthew 15:10+11)


​

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(Acts 10:11-15)


​

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
(Acts 15:28+29)


​

All quotes are from the Authorized KJV Version

Esdra

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[bugkiller]

No, no, no... you don't have to choose between salvation & bacon,... God wouldn't be that cruel. That sounds like a non-Calvinist's view of Calvinists.
No, you have to choose between salvation with, or salvation without bacon. What's it gonna be?

No problem until it is salvation by bacon.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Little does Obama know what pepperoni is made of




Homemade Pepperoni Recipe
Ingredients:

• 7 pounds pre-frozen or certified pork butt, cubed, fat included
• 3 pounds lean beef chuck, round or shank, cubed
• 5 Tablespoons salt
• 1 Tablespoon sugar
• 2 Tablespoons cayenne pepper
• 3 Tablespoons sweet paprika
• 1 Tablespoons crushed anise seed

.

 

[Gottservant]

This thread is a perfect example of a presumption of order, based on an omission of penalty.

Just because something is clean, does not mean your salvation is negated if you don't take advantage of it.

 

[Strong in Him]

Just because something is clean, does not mean your salvation is negated if you don't take advantage of it.

Neither clean nor unclean food can negate what Christ has done for us - or our salvation.

 

[MoreCoffee]

This thread is a perfect example of a presumption of order, based on an omission of penalty.

Just because something is clean, does not mean your salvation is negated if you don't take advantage of it.

I do not think that the thread title is intended to be serious.

Did you read the Original Post?

Mind you, I am sure that bacon has some kind of salutary effect on those who enjoy eating it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LDsk75q2Xw

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

What if you don't eat pork simply because you don't like it? I think both ham and bacon are disgusting.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What if you don't eat pork simply because you don't like it? I think both ham and bacon are disgusting.

How very very sad!

Bacon is one of God's best creations!

 

[YeShallTread]

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
(Matthew 15:10+11)
​

​

Yes, He calls us to "hear and understand." In order to understand we must recognize the subject which is....the traditions of the elders, not commandments of God. What is the tradition of which He is teaching?

Matthew 15:2-3 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But He answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

15:9-11 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. And He called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
​

The tradition/commandment of men was not the commandment God gave about what foods to partake of. Rather the tradition under discussion was not washing hands when eating. So, hear and understand! If you have dirty hands when eating clean meats...you are not defiled. What comes from our thoughts, our speech, our teaching or..."out of the mouth" is that which defiles us...as it defiled those teaching for doctrines the commandments of men...rather than commandments of God.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH CLEANSING UNCLEAN FOODS.

​

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(Acts 10:11-15)
​

​

1. Did Peter actually eat anything on the sheet?
2. These were NOT literal creatures anyone could eat.
3. These were humans that God wants all of us to teach. These were Gentiles Peter and the others previously thought of as "unclean" or common.

​

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
(Acts 15:28+29)


​

All quotes are from the Authorized KJV Version

Esdra

Thank you for using the KJV...it is always my choice.


Here too we must first see the subject of [Acts 15] which is circumcision and keeping the law of Moses. It is NOTHING TO DO with keeping the commandments of God...

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.


Both circumcision and the various ordinances (law of Moses) have been fulfilled. Circumcision is to be understood spiritually for it is that of our hearts.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


​

The law of Moses is still applicable but were fulfilled in Him...nailed to the cross. We are to see them in a new way....

1 Corinthians 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;
​

The laws causing enmity contained in ordinances were taken out of the way. May I ask....is it difficult for you to abstain from meats He tells us are unclean, abominable and will eventually harm our bodies?

 

[annier]

Yes, He calls us to "hear and understand." In order to understand we must recognize the subject which is....the traditions of the elders, not commandments of God. What is the tradition of which He is teaching?

Matthew 15:2-3 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But He answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

15:9-11 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. And He called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
​

The tradition/commandment of men was not the commandment God gave about what foods to partake of. Rather the tradition under discussion was not washing hands when eating. So, hear and understand! If you have dirty hands when eating clean meats...you are not defiled. What comes from our thoughts, our speech, our teaching or..."out of the mouth" is that which defiles us...as it defiled those teaching for doctrines the commandments of men...rather than commandments of God.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH CLEANSING UNCLEAN FOODS. 1. Did Peter actually eat anything on the sheet?
2. These were NOT literal creatures anyone could eat.
3. These were humans that God wants all of us to teach. These were Gentiles Peter and the others previously thought of as "unclean" or common.
Thank you for using the KJV...it is always my choice.


Here too we must first see the subject of [Acts 15] which is circumcision and keeping the law of Moses. It is NOTHING TO DO with keeping the commandments of God...

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.


Both circumcision and the various ordinances (law of Moses) have been fulfilled. Circumcision is to be understood spiritually for it is that of our hearts.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


​

The law of Moses is still applicable but were fulfilled in Him...nailed to the cross. We are to see them in a new way....

1 Corinthians 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;
​

The laws causing enmity contained in ordinances were taken out of the way. May I ask....is it difficult for you to abstain from meats He tells us are unclean, abominable and will eventually harm our bodies?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this post but, it seems you are talking out both sides of your mouth here? First you say, he never announced unclean meats clean. Then you say the commandments and the law are to be spiritually understood? What is clean or unclean in Christ is of a spiritual nature, not a carnal nature. This includes what we eat.
We which are in Christ are not severed from each other because of what we eat.
Lev 20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.
26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I do not think that the thread title is intended to be serious.

Did you read the Original Post?

Mind you, I am sure that bacon has some kind of salutary effect on those who enjoy eating it

Tis all a matter of interpretation and semantics.....

NKJV) 1Pe 4:7
But the end of all things is nigh at hand;
therefore be serious and watchful in the prayers.

Don't call me Shirley - YouTube

 

[YeShallTread]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this post but, it seems you are talking out both sides of your mouth here? First you say, he never announced unclean meats clean. Then you say the commandments and the law are to be spiritually understood? What is clean or unclean in Christ is of a spiritual nature, not a carnal nature. This includes what we eat.

Please consider Annier...what pertains to our flesh bodies and what pertains to our spiritual bodies. What was abominable for us to consume long ago remains so today. The unclean foods haven't changed...our bodies haven't changed. If they would cause harm to humans then...why do you think that has changed?

I often wonder if the "old age ailments" such as cancer, arthritis, high blood pressure, alzheimers, dementia, failing eyesight, etc. could be the cause of the poisons we have consumed over the years.

All things/creatures He created are good for all things serve a purpose. The purpose of many of the "unclean" animals was to rid the world of toxins and...they do that. Why then, when they take poisons into their bodies would we think it was safe for us to then consume them?

Think of Abraham and his long, long life as well as that of Moses:

Deuteronomy 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Proverbs 3:1-2 My son, forget not My law; but let thine heart keep My commandments: For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
​

We which are in Christ are not severed from each other because of what we eat.
Lev 20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.
26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

We are still to be severed from other people for we are His, we are His holy people. We are to conduct ourselves as a child of God and are therefore...not of the world. We are severed.

Please notice in the above Ephesians quote what He abolished. It wasn't the law, it wasn't the commandments but rather...abolished in His flesh THE ENMITY caused by the law contained IN ORDINANCES.


Do I think folks partaking of shrimp, lobster or pork are destined for hell? Nope. Do I think your health will suffer over time? Yes. Do I think God wants us to refrain from those things? Yes for it is written.

I would add that when understood spiritually those creatures, such as swine, are representative of types of people...such as false prophets. Taking in the meat of literal swine isn't good...nor is taking in the false doctrine/meat of spiritual swine/false prophets.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Please consider Annier...what pertains to our flesh bodies and what pertains to our spiritual bodies. What was abominable for us to consume long ago remains so today. The unclean foods haven't changed...our bodies haven't changed. If they would cause harm to humans then...why do you think that has changed?...............


All things/creatures He created are good for all things serve a purpose. The purpose of many of the "unclean" animals was to rid the world of toxins and...they do that. Why then, when they take poisons into their bodies would we think it was safe for us to then consume them?

Do I think folks partaking of shrimp, lobster or pork are destined for hell? Nope. Do I think your health will suffer over time? Yes. Do I think God wants us to refrain from those things? Yes for it is written.

I would add that when understood spiritually those creatures, such as swine, are representative of types of people...such as false prophets. Taking in the meat of literal swine isn't good...nor is taking in the false doctrine/meat of spiritual swine/false prophets.

Nice analogy.

First time I have heard the term "spiritual swine" used before.
Let me gnaw on that awhile, while I go gnaw on a rack of barbequed pork ribs.....




.

 

[bugkiller]

Please consider Annier...what pertains to our flesh bodies and what pertains to our spiritual bodies. What was abominable for us to consume long ago remains so today. The unclean foods haven't changed...our bodies haven't changed. If they would cause harm to humans then...why do you think that has changed?

Foods were not unclean for everyone. The Scripture clearly states shall be unclean for you. The you specifically being talked about is the COI. It is not talking about anyone else.

I often wonder if the "old age ailments" such as cancer, arthritis, high blood pressure, alzheimers, dementia, failing eyesight, etc. could be the cause of the poisons we have consumed over the years.

Do those within your denomination suffer from any of those things? I have a neighbor who does yet wears glasses and has a blood pressure problem. He even refuses to feed his animals meat products. BTW his dog's health failed and had to be put down because of liver malfunction. It would not eat. [/quote]

All things/creatures He created are good for all things serve a purpose. The purpose of many of the "unclean" animals was to rid the world of toxins and...they do that. Why then, when they take poisons into their bodies would we think it was safe for us to then consume them?[/quote] Are mushrooms an unclean food? They digest poisons.

Think of Abraham and his long, long life as well as that of Moses:

Deuteronomy 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Proverbs 3:1-2 My son, forget not My law; but let thine heart keep My commandments: For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
​

We are still to be severed from other people for we are His, we are His holy people. We are to conduct ourselves as a child of God and are therefore...not of the world. We are severed.

Yes I know very well. My neighbor can not participate in or with anyone in our community. Yet Jesus ate with publicans and sinners and called a winebibber.

Please notice in the above Ephesians quote what He abolished. It wasn't the law, it wasn't the commandments but rather...abolished in His flesh THE ENMITY caused by the law contained IN ORDINANCES.

Please notice Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law... The passage say nothing about being delivered from the punishment of the law. Neither does it indicate part of the law.

Do I think folks partaking of shrimp, lobster or pork are destined for hell? Nope. Do I think your health will suffer over time? Yes. Do I think God wants us to refrain from those things? Yes for it is written.

I would add that when understood spiritually those creatures, such as swine, are representative of types of people...such as false prophets. Taking in the meat of literal swine isn't good...nor is taking in the false doctrine/meat of spiritual swine/false prophets.

Grandpa did all those things and died in his 70's. On the news the other day a 105 year old woman said she ate bacon every day. I really have a hard time with your position in light of such things.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Nice analogy.

First time I have heard the term "spiritual swine" used before.
Let me gnaw on that awhile, while I go gnaw on a rack of barbequed pork ribs.....

Are they BBQ over mesquite soaked in Frogster's special sauce?

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by ZaidaBoBaida

What if you don't eat pork simply because you don't like it? I think both ham and bacon are disgusting.
​

How very very sad!

Bacon is one of God's best creations!

You can do a lot of things with pork and it is tasty.



.

 

[YeShallTread]

Foods were not unclean for everyone. The Scripture clearly states shall be unclean for you. The you specifically being talked about is the COI. It is not talking about anyone else.Do those within your denomination suffer from any of those things? I have a neighbor who does yet wears glasses and has a blood pressure problem. He even refuses to feed his animals meat products. BTW his dog's health failed and had to be put down because of liver malfunction. It would not eat.

If His health laws do not pertain to you then...apparently He doesn't care if you remain healthy? He doesn't care if you pay attention to His Words? You are not a child of God? Of course all of that isn't correct for when we are His....His Words are ours.

I am not of any denomination. Many people suffer from the "old age" things I mentioned.

As for your neighbor...he is apparently a vegetarian. Did God's Word tell us to abstain from all meats? No...so why are you making that comparison?

All things/creatures He created are good for all things serve a purpose. The purpose of many of the "unclean" animals was to rid the world of toxins and...they do that. Why then, when they take poisons into their bodies would we think it was safe for us to then consume them?

Are mushrooms an unclean food? They digest poisons.

Can mushrooms harm you? Yes they can. Knowing that would you go out to gather them and then chow down? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

Yes I know very well. My neighbor can not participate in or with anyone in our community. Yet Jesus ate with publicans and sinners and called a winebibber.

Knowing that why then do you not participate in or with him? Again, what is your point? Because we are severed from others doesn't mean we don't help others. The point in being severed is that we follow Him, we abide by His laws. Jesus ate with publicans and sinners to help them...not to become like them. He remained pure even though He was among them so...go visit your neighbor but don't take part in whatever he did to cause others to shun him if it is against the Word of the Lord.

Please notice Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law... The passage say nothing about being delivered from the punishment of the law. Neither does it indicate part of the law.

The law is to be seen spiritually once we are a new man. We are to understand the deeper meaning. It isn't that the law is no longer the law but it is understood spiritually. We become a new man, a spiritual man in a flesh body...dead to self with Him dwelling in us. However, as long as we walk under the sun in this flesh....the laws pertaining to our health remain literal to our literal bodies. Concerning the food laws...are you still in a flesh body? If yes, then the flesh law still pertains to you.

Grandpa did all those things and died in his 70's. On the news the other day a 105 year old woman said she ate bacon every day. I really have a hard time with your position in light of such things.

bugkiller

Then by all means...roll the dice, spin the wheel. My husband is for he, who has had a major heart attack and two strokes...continues to smoke and he is 71. So, pile your plate high for you may well be one of the lucky ones. But, as you chow down please consider too that He Himself stipulated very specific foods. If you don't care about your health or are willing to take a chance...what about dismissing His instructions? How do you feel about that? How will He feel about that?

Of course, you can always side-step the issue by thinking (wrongly) that God's Words somehow don't apply to you.

 

[Rev Randy]

I'm missing finding the post but did someone say something about eating buzzard? Is it any good?

 

[bugkiller]

If His health laws do not pertain to you then...apparently He doesn't care if you remain healthy? He doesn't care if you pay attention to His Words? You are not a child of God? Of course all of that isn't correct for when we are His....His Words are ours.

I believe you misread the Scripture. God told Noah he could eat everything. The dietary laws found in the law only pertain to Israel. It has nothing to do with health as can be verified even by current events and practices.

I am not of any denomination. Many people suffer from the "old age" things I mentioned.

As for your neighbor...he is apparently a vegetarian. Did God's Word tell us to abstain from all meats? No...so why are you making that comparison?

You must have been very excited when responding to my post.

Can mushrooms harm you? Yes they can. Knowing that would you go out to gather them and then chow down? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

OK focus on the negative. I know of no know poison mushrooms for sale at the grocery store.

Knowing that why then do you not participate in or with him? Again, what is your point? Because we are severed from others doesn't mean we don't help others. The point in being severed is that we follow Him, we abide by His laws. Jesus ate with publicans and sinners to help them...not to become like them. He remained pure even though He was among them so...go visit your neighbor but don't take part in whatever he did to cause others to shun him if it is against the Word of the Lord.

I do not live in a commune. The habit of my neighbor is effectively that. No thanks. Jesus ate with publicans and sinners. The only one we are to exclude from our association are heretics. The general unregenerate do not fall in this category. Jesus did not call us to be social snobs.

The law is to be seen spiritually once we are a new man. We are to understand the deeper meaning. It isn't that the law is no longer the law but it is understood spiritually. We become a new man, a spiritual man in a flesh body...dead to self with Him dwelling in us. However, as long as we walk under the sun in this flesh....the laws pertaining to our health remain literal to our literal bodies. Concerning the food laws...are you still in a flesh body? If yes, then the flesh law still pertains to you.

No the laws separating Israel as a peculiar people do not apply to the rest of the world.

Then by all means...roll the dice, spin the wheel. My husband is for he, who has had a major heart attack and two strokes...continues to smoke and he is 71. So, pile your plate high for you may well be one of the lucky ones. But, as you chow down please consider too that He Himself stipulated very specific foods. If you don't care about your health or are willing to take a chance...what about dismissing His instructions? How do you feel about that? How will He feel about that?

Pile on all the unfounded guilt you like.

Of course, you can always side-step the issue by thinking (wrongly) that God's Words somehow don't apply to you.

Or one can misapply it to condemn and manipulate others.

bugkiller