Music in church....(tin hat on)

[Wolftone]

Hi all,

Our church in County Down has gone from a wheezing harmonium to a good little band within ten years. Our band comprises, bass guitar, electro-acoustic guitar, piano, full traditional organ (can be other instruments too e.g. strings etc), flute and clarinet.

The problem we have is that our music leader (real nice man) is incredibly traditional and has only accepted these changes as a result of pressure from the congregation. At every opportunity, he slides back into eighteenth century mode! The challenge is to introduce drums which many consider a step into hell itself!

Our music is from the Mission Praise collection with all the modern stuff played but not as frequently as I would like. Our youth fellowship have expressed their desire to go full modern and our thrust at the moment is actually develop our youth segment.

Question - How have you updated your music praise? How have you overcome objection without upset?

 

[Touchemama]

Why not have two (2) services? Have an early morning one of praise music only and have your traditional music during the regular church services. That is if your church is big enough.

 

[MrJim]

I'm not of a fan of "contemporary praise" preferring liturgical worship in the Orthodox tradition but understand it is popular across most of the church spectrum. Last praise-band worship I attended was at a Mennonite church (no kiddin') and it was so loud I had to take my young son out of the sanctuary/auditorium..I personally find loud sound painful and seems my sons inherited this trait. But I've no real problem with it other than personal preference and the SBC I attend it building a new facility and I know they are itching to have room to set up a band (though I'll be gone by then I'm sure).

Seems it is important for some to make it really loud~~while the bible talks of musical instruments it doesn't mention amplifiers and speakers

 

[Albion]

Hi all,

Our church in County Down has gone from a wheezing harmonium to a good little band within ten years. Our band comprises, bass guitar, electro-acoustic guitar, piano, full traditional organ (can be other instruments too e.g. strings etc), flute and clarinet.

The problem we have is that our music leader (real nice man) is incredibly traditional and has only accepted these changes as a result of pressure from the congregation. At every opportunity, he slides back into eighteenth century mode! The challenge is to introduce drums which many consider a step into hell itself!

Our music is from the Mission Praise collection with all the modern stuff played but not as frequently as I would like. Our youth fellowship have expressed their desire to go full modern and our thrust at the moment is actually develop our youth segment.

Question - How have you updated your music praise? How have you overcome objection without upset?

I'm not sure if it would work with rock bands, but I know congregations that have incorporated both Christian "contemporary" music (meaning elevator music or folk music) and traditional hymns and anthems into the same service. While some congregations have gone entirely one way or the other--or else have different services featuring one or the other kind of music--I find that this compormise solution works well. You might think that it would seem disjointed or that the congregation would hate at least half of the music, but it isn't that way. I think most people are happy enough to have the kind of music they don't favor IF there is also the opportunity to hear and join in singing the kind that they DO favor.

 

[ActionJ]

Hi all,

Our church in County Down has gone from a wheezing harmonium to a good little band within ten years. Our band comprises, bass guitar, electro-acoustic guitar, piano, full traditional organ (can be other instruments too e.g. strings etc), flute and clarinet.

The problem we have is that our music leader (real nice man) is incredibly traditional and has only accepted these changes as a result of pressure from the congregation. At every opportunity, he slides back into eighteenth century mode! The challenge is to introduce drums which many consider a step into hell itself!

Our music is from the Mission Praise collection with all the modern stuff played but not as frequently as I would like. Our youth fellowship have expressed their desire to go full modern and our thrust at the moment is actually develop our youth segment.

Question - How have you updated your music praise? How have you overcome objection without upset?

Howdy. I personally like the traditional hymns sung or played in a traditional manner. I'm not a fan of "Christian Rock" as I consider that term to be an oxymoron. But this is simply my personal opinion based on my personal tastes. As in all things I always try to consider what Jesus and the Apostles would do in any particular situation. When I look at the roots of Rock & Roll I can't help but see an anti-Christian element (again ... personal opinion). Therefore, it seems antithetical to blend that style of music with Christian praise music.

I see no reason why modern praise music can't appeal to the senses of modern worshipers without incorporating the elements of rap, or hip-hop, or heavy metal, etc.

Listen to this beauty: Celine Dion - Oh Holy Night LIVE HD 3D - YouTube

 

[WannaWitness]

Here is an interesting link on the topic that I feel is worth a look. I suggest reading a little at a time, as it is quite long.

CCM Controversy

 

[Wolftone]

Here is an interesting link on the topic that I feel is worth a look. I suggest reading a little at a time, as it is quite long.

CCM Controversy

I tried to get through that and lost the will to live after the first section! I will try and get back to it when I can. Thanks for posting.

 

[WannaWitness]

I tried to get through that and lost the will to live after the first section! I will try and get back to it when I can. Thanks for posting.

You're welcome. Like I said, it is very long, but the writer presents what I believe to be a balanced perspective on this popularly debated issue. I can also, as time allows, try to find some shorter articles on this issue. This one has to be among some of my favorites, though, because of the way the writer analyzes the various "sub-issues" within the realm of the whole music issue in itself, and seems to make good sense in what he has written. There doesn't seem to be any articles about music issue convictions that are quite as detailed as this one.

It might also be a good idea to save it to your hard drive, if you have a way to do it. That way, it might be a little easier to pick up where you left off. Another way would be to print it, but the drawback to that is it uses up a lot of paper and printer ink (as long as the article is), and therefore is not really recommended unless one wants to do a serious study on the issue.

 

[Wolftone]

This one has to be among some of my favorites, though, because of the way the writer analyzes the various "sub-issues" within the realm of the whole music issue in itself, and seems to make good sense in what he has written.

It's always intrigued me as to why people believe that old/classical music is pleasing to God and some other genres aren't.

There don't appear to be any direct and references from scripture that define music genres. The three favorites I have are;

Ps149
Praise the Lord.
Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise in the assembly of his faithful people.
2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.
3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with timbrel and harp.
4 For the Lord takes delight in his people;
he crowns the humble with victory.
5 Let his faithful people rejoice in this honor
and sing for joy on their beds.

and

Ps150
Praise the Lord.
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord.

and

Ps 33
Sing joyfully to the Lord, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
2 Praise the Lord with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.

There's nothing there about beat, rhythm, old or new. What the verses say to me are for us to praise the Lord at the tops of your voices, sing and dance joyfully and show your appreciation of his gifts. Make a loud and joyful noise and stringed instruments, horns and cymbals. I think that God just loves this uplifting style of music according to the scriptures!

God certainly does not say "Sit silently and miserably in church while you listen to a wheezing harmonium squeeze the last dying breath out of a miserable hymn from 1760!

On the other hand, try singing the words from Psalm 1 to the music of a death metal band...now some may draw the line there!

 

[Resha Caner]

It's always intrigued me as to why people believe that old/classical music is pleasing to God and some other genres aren't.

I went through this when I was younger. I played bass guitar for a contemporary church band, and I was irritated by all the old fogies who didn't appreciate our music. But I didn't end up where I thought I would.

Have you shown your church that you can appreciate their music? If not, all they see from you is rebellion ... and they might not be all wrong. I have to admit in my case it was a factor.

 

[WannaWitness]

It's always intrigued me as to why people believe that old/classical music is pleasing to God and some other genres aren't.

There don't appear to be any direct and references from scripture that define music genres. The three favorites I have are;

Ps149
Praise the Lord.
Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise in the assembly of his faithful people.
2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.
3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with timbrel and harp.
4 For the Lord takes delight in his people;
he crowns the humble with victory.
5 Let his faithful people rejoice in this honor
and sing for joy on their beds.

and

Ps150
Praise the Lord.
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord.

and

Ps 33
Sing joyfully to the Lord, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
2 Praise the Lord with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.

There's nothing there about beat, rhythm, old or new. What the verses say to me are for us to praise the Lord at the tops of your voices, sing and dance joyfully and show your appreciation of his gifts. Make a loud and joyful noise and stringed instruments, horns and cymbals. I think that God just loves this uplifting style of music according to the scriptures!

God certainly does not say "Sit silently and miserably in church while you listen to a wheezing harmonium squeeze the last dying breath out of a miserable hymn from 1760!

On the other hand, try singing the words from Psalm 1 to the music of a death metal band...now some may draw the line there!

I hear you on that.

Now granted, I find nothing wrong with classical music and hymns. I just have an appreciation for them among some of my other diverse tastes in music; I can listen to standard CCM fare one minute (think Amy Grant, Point of Grace, and Michael W. Smith), the next I'll be listening to country or bluegrass, and still another I'll listen to jazz and swing oldies or maybe some decent novelty tunes. I just like how he points out that all kinds of music have been (and still can be) used for evil purposes, but can somehow be changed around and used for good purposes, especially to glorify God.

Not to mention that a lot of the hymns were contemporary for the time they were written, and some were said to have based their tunes on the popular folk music of the time.

 

[Resha Caner]

Not to mention that a lot of the hymns were contemporary for the time they were written, and some were said to have based their tunes on the popular folk music of the time.

Yes, that's a famous anecdote about Martin Luther (though whether it's historical I don't know). Luther wrote hymns, his most famous being "A Mighty Fortress", which was based on a popular bar song. Because of that, when someone called it "devil's music", his reply was, "Why should the Devil have all the good music?"

 

[Albion]

That sounds like something Luther would say.

Yes, that's a famous anecdote about Martin Luther (though whether it's historical I don't know). Luther wrote hymns, his most famous being "A Mighty Fortress", which was based on a popular bar song. Because of that, when someone called it "devil's music", his reply was, "Why should the Devil have all the good music?"

 

[WannaWitness]

Because of that, when someone called it "devil's music", his reply was, "Why should the Devil have all the good music?"

I didn't think that quote dated back that far. I always associated that with the late '60s/early '70s "Jesus Music" era.

 

[Wolftone]

Have you shown your church that you can appreciate their music? If not, all they see from you is rebellion ... and they might not be all wrong. I have to admit in my case it was a factor.

This is very good advice. It's easy to get all huffy about other peoples choice of music I guess.

 

[ActionJ]

God knows our heart and intent and is likely pleased any time we praise Him regardless of our particular "style" of praise. I just believe that the "back beat" of rock & roll appeals more to the flesh than it does the spirit. I still listen to rock & roll music (classic rock mostly) and I also listen to praise hymns. I have nothing against folks who choose to listen to "Christian rock" but it's like mixing oil with water (in my opinion).

Another dry but informational essay on the subject: RELIGIOUS ROCK... The music of devils in the CHURCH!!!

 

[Wolftone]

Another dry but informational essay on the subject: RELIGIOUS ROCK... The music of devils in the CHURCH!!!

I just read that and although you can imagine the sort of dusty person that wrote it, it actually makes sense! I agree that Rock and Roll is worldly with a core based in the encouragement of sin.

I am not a fan of religious rock myself although I am always heartened when somebody comes from the dark side over to the light.

I would be interested to know where people think the line is drawn and why?

 

[Ascendo]

Does the 4/4 beat make rock wordly? Or the accent of the snare on 2 and 4? Or is it the bass frequencies? Or modern electric instruments? Or is it the volume?

The rock music is wordly argument boils down to just not liking the style.

Please notice that I'm not saying anything about content, because there can be objectional content in ANY style.

 

[Ariel Gavriel]

Most older congregations do not like change. The best advice to give you as a worship leader...is to take your time and add one song to the normal mix until people are use to it. Then add another and so on...The drums are difficult because there is going to be a clash between the organist and drummer on who is keeping the tempo. The drummer and bass guitarist tend to lead in most contemporary worship settings. The organist will have to allow for certain songs to be led by the drums and bass guitar. My suggestion is that you pray God's will into the situation and then leave it up to God...

Be Blessed!

 

[Resha Caner]

The rock music is wordly argument boils down to just not liking the style.

Yes and no. The original term "rock and roll" is quite offensive, and there are still people alive who were around when the term had that connotation.

But you are right. In many cases they simply don't like the style. If they are up front with that reason, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's no worse than someone saying they don't like "that dry old organ music". My father in law doesn't like trumpets used on Easter morning - not because of style, but because he thinks they're too loud for the small sanctuary where he attends church.