Clergy Participating in Protests Against Gay Rights Parade in the Country of Georgia

[Dorothea]

Should the clergy really be involved in such protests and actions? And being leading protests where physical actions that are not peaceful may happen?

Small excerpt from article posted below:

Many were shocked on May 17 to see a phalanx of black-robed Orthodox clergy break into a trot and lead an angry mob in an attack on a gay-rights rally in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.


Orthodox Churches Fight Back As Eastern Europe Pushes To Modernize, Secularize

 

[buzuxi02]

Taking it up the intestines then celebrating it is considered modernization nowadays? Sorry tO western politicians , but their values are hated and their children despise them for it.

 

[Mariya116]

Yeah, I saw in the New York Times.

 

[Soderquj]

Good view on this can be found here.
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/morningoffering/he_who_is_without_sin
And here
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/morningoffering/standing_against_violence1

 

[Dorothea]

I don't think clergy should be throwing rocks and smashing windows in buses, and physically after people. This is not showing the Love of Christ, which they are an Icon of Him. IMO, they don't belong in that situation. Peaceful protest in civil disobedience would be ok.

 

[Dorothea]

Good view on this can be found here.
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/morningoffering/he_who_is_without_sin
And here
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/morningoffering/standing_against_violence1

Thanks. I'll check them out!

 

[Dorothea]

Good view on this can be found here.
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/morningoffering/he_who_is_without_sin
And here
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/morningoffering/standing_against_violence1

Ah, yes, I've read Fr. Tryphon's posts on FB on this! It was excellent!

 

[ArmyMatt]

yeah, I posted those Abbot Tryphon podcasts a few days ago. sad that clergy would do this. Lord have mercy!

 

[Kristos]

I can understand their frustration however - not that means should ever be justified by the ends. Even here, where I have no legacy of isolation as protection, I feel beset on all sides by an insidious idea that we can be our own god - similar to Nietzsche's "last men", consumed by self indulgence and narcissism. God is dead, so they must raise up one to take his place, but none are left, so self becomes god and happiness an unattainable, subjective truth.

 

[Ignatius21]

What many also have in common, though, are Orthodox churches that often act as brakes, politically and socially conservative forces that tend to view any innovation as a foreign threat aimed at destroying sacred national traditions.

"I give my support to those who are gathered here. We are against a rally that contradicts our Georgian morals and traditions," Davitaia said. "[Gay-rights campaigners] receive financial support from some organizations abroad and they wanted to hold a demonstration against Georgian morals."

If they are concerned about protecting "Georgian morals," perhaps they should be wearing Georgian flags rather than Christian crosses. Just my American two cents, I guess. Much of this sounds much more like nationalism rather than strict concern for religious morality. But I'm just reading one article and have zilch actual experience with the matter.

Still, while I see it as important to resist the influx of the ancient vices that have been rebranded as modern virtues, I expect these clergy (and by extension all of Orthodoxy) will come across much like the Harry Potter book burning fundies.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Orthodox clergy taking part in any kind of violence is disgusting.

 

[buzuxi02]

I don't believe so. In most parts of the world civil disobedience means certain violent actions. Real Christians need to wake up and realize their culture has been hijacked and perverted by their own kind and we must rise up and smash the ignorant elitist masses. There is a civil war brewing in the west and the silent majority are now spitting on the immoral institutions of the west.

 

[AureateDawn]

This is very sad.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

If they are concerned about protecting "Georgian morals," perhaps they should be wearing Georgian flags rather than Christian crosses. Just my American two cents, I guess. Much of this sounds much more like nationalism rather than strict concern for religious morality. But I'm just reading one article and have zilch actual experience with the matter.

Still, while I see it as important to resist the influx of the ancient vices that have been rebranded as modern virtues, I expect these clergy (and by extension all of Orthodoxy) will come across much like the Harry Potter book burning fundies.

The line isn't so clearly drawn when "Georgian morals" has, historically, meant "Orthodox morals." In the mind of a Georgian one could probably substitute "The Church" "Georgian Traditions" and "History" pretty fluidly. They do say, after all "our sacred national traditions." I know my priest has told me before that to be Serbian means to be Orthodox, and if you're of Serbian descent but leave the faith, you're less of a Serbian for it.

Here in America, especially where our traditions are a religious minority, where we're so indoctrinated (not necessarily in a bad way) to delineate Church and State, we're quick to want to keep them separate. In the majority of history that hasn't been the case, and really, we can't necessarily say that our way is any better, particularly when the country's state has, historically, been Orthodox.

Orthodox clergy taking part in any kind of violence is disgusting.

I agree. They can protest all they like, IMO, but when they stoop to violence they soil their vestments. Clergy can have political opinions just as any other citizen, even in a secular state, and can participate in as many protests as they want (do any of us hesitate to support those of our Church who show up for the Walks for Life?) but they do not have the right to resort to violence while doing so.

 

[Prayer Circle]

I don't think it should ever turn violent however, people will do as they will in that regard in hot button type topics such as this.

I think it's a beautiful thing to witness clergy stand up and march against homosexual sin seeking inroads into lawful right of practice. I wish the clergy in America had the guts to do that. As it is we have Apostates revoking scriptural authority, violating the warnings afforded in Revelation 22:18 itself, and not only opening their churches to practicing homosexuals, but of all things, apologizing! For scripture and enforcement of scripture that condemns the sin of homosexuality.

So any clergy that marches against that sin anywhere in the world has my respect. Sadly, the enemy is marching in clerical robes in this country and leading their flock straight to Hell, when they OK homosexual sin and denounce God from the platform of their office. It's a tragedy in America that is just beginning.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

After reading the article I'd like to point out that the reporter nowhere says that the clergy were actually involved in any violence. The most he says is "black-robed Orthodox clergy [broke] into a trot and lead an angry mob in an attack..." I'm skeptical that any clergy participated in violence, because this article would love to write about that, or show pictures of clergy committing disgraceful actions.

The article actually reads like arrogant, affronted Westerners who are upset that there are people in foreign countries who resent their involvement. When Western powers start to impose their views on other countries those countries begin to get angry at this new form of colonialism and react by getting more 'into' their historical identifiers, one of which is always religion. We've seen this in the Middle East, we're seeing it in Eastern Europe. The answer is to stop wallowing in this "White Man's Burden" or "Manifest Destiny" or whatever other label you want to put on it, and trust other countries to be able to put on their big girl pants and govern themselves.

 

[buzuxi02]

I agree. They can protest all they like, IMO, but when they stoop to violence they soil their vestments. Clergy can have political opinions just as any other citizen, even in a secular state, and can participate in as many protests as they want (do any of us hesitate to support those of our Church who show up for the Walks for Life?) but they do not have the right to resort to violence while doing so.

Joseph, I agree with you on all you wrote except for the above. Precisely because it fits in with the rest of your post.

In 2006 when I was in Greece and watching the Greek news with my grandfather, they reported a raucous protest that took place with the usual bottle throwing and clashes with police. My grandfather turned to me and asked if these protests take place in America. I told him they do but they tend to be non-violent with police precense keeping order and sometimes directing the route.

He looked at me with puzzlement and said , then that's not democracy but a police state. I then realized that protests in different parts of the world means civil disobedience and vandalism.

As far as the OP many people especially young people are sick and tired of their Muslim sympathizing, homosexual loving tendencies of their politicians and neighbors and are ready for a civil war.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

Joseph, I agree with you on all you wrote except for the above. Precisely because it fits in with the rest of your post.

In 2006 when I was in Greece and watching the Greek news with my grandfather, they reported a raucous protest that took place with the usual bottle throwing and clashes with police. My grandfather turned to me and asked if these protests take place in America. I told him they do but they tend to be non-violent with police precense keeping order and sometimes directing the route.

He looked at me with puzzlement and said , then that's not democracy but a police state. I then realized that protests in different parts of the world means civil disobedience and vandalism.

As far as the OP many people especially young people are sick and tired of their Muslim sympathizing, homosexual loving tendencies of their politicians and neighbors and are ready for a civil war.

I suppose that makes sense. My statements mainly had to do with my understanding that if a priest kills someone, even unintentionally, they can no longer be a priest. I suppose there are times when even priests should be violent, and this very well may be such a case.

 

[Dorothea]

If they are concerned about protecting "Georgian morals," perhaps they should be wearing Georgian flags rather than Christian crosses. Just my American two cents, I guess. Much of this sounds much more like nationalism rather than strict concern for religious morality. But I'm just reading one article and have zilch actual experience with the matter.

Still, while I see it as important to resist the influx of the ancient vices that have been rebranded as modern virtues, I expect these clergy (and by extension all of Orthodoxy) will come across much like the Harry Potter book burning fundies.

Yes, I'm afraid this will send a wrong message about our Church.

 

[Dorothea]

I don't believe so. In most parts of the world civil disobedience means certain violent actions. Real Christians need to wake up and realize their culture has been hijacked and perverted by their own kind and we must rise up and smash the ignorant elitist masses. There is a civil war brewing in the west and the silent majority are now spitting on the immoral institutions of the west.

I think we all know what's coming and that our culture/society has been going downhill with this moral decay for decades now. I don't agree with your answer as to how we should respond.