Questions for Synergists

[crimsonleaf]

It could be.

Or it could be a good reason to reject the idea that God decreed every single event without exception.

I'm not sure how to define the mysteries of God. Would you have a go, please?

Give it your best shot...

 

[janxharris]

Give it your best shot...

Ok, but I wont be able right now.

All the best.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Ok, but I wont be able right now.

All the best.

Laters.

But don't forget this time...

 

[Hammster]

Except that it doesn't work like that.

Would you like to assure any casual readers of these posts, who might be interested in Christianity, that they definitely do have a real chance at salvation and that it is not possible that God may have predetermined they would never believe?

I make that assertion. Do you?

You are passively painting a picture of the strawman that gets posted on here from time to time. "Calvinism has it that some people who want to be saved wont, because God hasn't elected them". Every person who wants to believe on The Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.

 

[OzSpen]

Every person who wants to believe on The Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.

So is that your understanding of how Calvinistic unconditional election works?

 

[guuila]

Of course.

'Bob, you have a real chance at being saved. All you need to do is put your faith in Christ. Don't worry Bob, it is not the case that God decided in advance that you would not believe. By the way, God does know what you will do, for He knows all things, but that is nothing to worry about - your free will is intact.'

Can we now have your assurance to Bob please griff?

You don't get it. I'm done.

 

[guuila]

Why do you persist in trying to tar us with the blackest of brushes?

You seem to think that Calvinists believe that only Calvinists are saved, whereas Calvinism merely describes a theory of the mechanics of salvation. What twisted view allows you to presume that we wouldn't care about ANYONE'S damnation?

Calvinism places man firmly at God's feet. God doesn't need man's permission to save him, He saves whom He will, when He wills. Your perpetual insistence on the over-riding necessity for your own will to be free of God's interference reinforces the biblical fact that at heart man is rotten to the core, and saved or not he will battle continually with the fleshly desire to place himself in first place.

Don't take this personally, because it's aimed at all who fight their own sanctification and who attempt to make God a casualty of their will.

A-M-E-N.

 

[guuila]

Interesting...he damages scripture by quoting it and using the scriptures to explain the scriptures?

He hurts the Gospel of Arminianism by stripping man of his sovereignty.

 

[OzSpen]

You don't get it. I'm done.

Could it be that that's because you can give no such assurance to Bob?

 

[guuila]

I asked for Metal Minister's feelings towards those that God decided would not have a chance at salvation. I'm not saying you don't care, but doing (caring) so brings you into conflict with God for you think He decided to pass them by. We are to be Christ-like are we not? There is a tension there.

If someone doesn't get a "chance" at salvation, they're getting exactly what they deserve.

 

[guuila]

Could it be that that's because you can give no such assurance to Bob?

You don't get it either. How can Bob have assurance if he's not elect?

 

[guuila]

So is that your understanding of how Calvinistic unconditional election works?

Unconditional election is the basis of wanting to be saved. Category error.

 

[OzSpen]

If someone doesn't get a "chance" at salvation, they're getting exactly what they deserve.

So that applies to all of the approx. 2,000 languages in the world that have not been translated and do not have a Bible in that language? They are the figures from Wycliffe/SIL. So are these tribes getting exactly what they deserve? And this amounts to approx. 209 million people.

 

[guuila]

So that applies to all of the approx. 2,000 languages in the world that have not been translated and do not have a Bible in that language? They are the figures from Wycliffe/SIL. So are these tribes getting exactly what they deserve? And this amounts to approx. 209 million people.

Was I unclear somehow? Yes, they are getting what they deserve. Just like you'd get what you deserve if you never heard the Gospel and went straight to hell for your sins.

 

[OzSpen]

Unconditional election is the basis of wanting to be saved. Category error.

In your system, unconditional election is the means by which God elects the saved. So how can people desire to be saved, in your system, without being in God's unconditional elect?

 

[OzSpen]

Was I unclear somehow? Yes, they are getting what they deserve. Just like you'd get what you deserve if you never heard the Gospel and went straight to hell for your sins.

You are very unclear because of your inability to accept the Scripture that God is not wishing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9). All people deserve hell, but God is not wishing that any should perish (get hell). That is where your system has a monstrous hole in it.

 

[guuila]

In your system, unconditional election is the means by which God elects the saved. So how can people desire to be saved, in your system, without being in God's unconditional elect?

They can't.

 

[guuila]

You are very unclear because of your inability to accept the Scripture that God is not wishing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9). All people deserve hell, but God is not wishing that any should perish (get hell). That is where your system has a monstrous hole in it.

Funny. You like to take that verse out of context to prop up your free will-ism (oh by the way, will waiting for you to choose the most convincing verse for prev. grace and exegete it... guess I shouldn't hold my breath) and then demand that God isn't willing that any person go to hell, even though God creates multitudes of people who he knows will never believe. That is where your system has a monstrous hold in it.

Yes Oz, you do deserve hell. And you'd still deserve hell even if God never sent Jesus as a substitute.

 

[OzSpen]

You don't get it either. How can Bob have assurance if he's not elect?

You don't get it either. Bob can gain assurance when the Gospel is freely offered to him and God by His Spirit moves on his he/her heart and he/she responds when the Gospel is proclaimed. Assurance does not come through a deterministic election without the human responsibility to respond to the Gospel.

However, let's conclude that you will never agree with a Reformed Arminian understanding of the Gospel texts regarding faith, election, repentance and salvation. From what you have posted on this thread, I am led to the conclusion that Calvinists are the only ones who can possibly be correct with their doctrine of election and Arminians are promoting false doctrine. Is that your view?

 

[guuila]

You don't get it either. Bob can gain assurance when the Gospel is freely offered to him and God by His Spirit moves on his he/her heart and he/she responds when the Gospel is proclaimed. Assurance does not come through a deterministic election without the human responsibility to respond to the Gospel.

Do you agree that every person is born into this world either elect or non-elect?

However, let's conclude that you will never agree with a Reformed Arminian understanding of the Gospel texts regarding faith, election, repentance and salvation. From what you have posted on this thread, I am led to the conclusion that Calvinists are the only ones who can possibly be correct with their doctrine of election and Arminians are promoting false doctrine. Is that your view?

I certainly don't think we're all correct. Best case scenario one of us is right. Worst cast we're both wrong.