What if..

[visionary]

You are being convicted of something scripture is speaking to your heart, yet you know of no one who has seen it in this light. Do you continue in the traditional view or do you explore the truthfulness of the conviction? What do you do when the more you explore said conviction in scripture, more evidence points to authors of scripture believing the same thing?

 

[aniello]

Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established

 

[visionary]

Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established

Yeah, it makes sense that God is speaking to more than just one person. Convicting them of the same thing.

 

[LottyH]

I would be looking through the whole bible to verify whether it fits in with God's word and His character and not necessarily be listening to the opinions of other people.

Jesus said 'My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me,'
John 10:27

'But the anointing which you have received of Him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in Him.'
1 John 2:27

 

[Avodat]

Sounds fine as long as other parts of Scripture are NOT clearly against that understanding; G_d never argues against himself!

 

[Avodat]

LottyH - our posts crossed, but we agree! PTL!

 

[LottyH]

Yes I think we posted simultaneously!

 

[visionary]

Yesh, it is especially true when the convictions don't quit but keep on adding up with more scriptural evidence..

 

[LottyH]

Visionary, would you like to share your convictions with us? If not, that's okay!!

 

[visionary]

Don’t worry about anything; on the contrary, make your requests known to God by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving. Then God’s shalom, passing all understanding, will keep your hearts and minds safe in union with the Messiah Yeshua. Philippians 4:6-7 CJB

 

[LottyH]

Love that scripture, not sure I understand what angle you are coming from but that's okay

 

[visionary]

Visionary, would you like to share your convictions with us? If not, that's okay!!

It started out as a study on why Adam said

Genesis 18:27
Avraham answered, “Here now, I, who am but dust and ashes, have taken it upon myself to speak to Adonai.

Dust I can understand but ashes??

IN the sacrificial system.. certain times the animal is reduced to ashes...

Leviticus 4:12
in other words, the entire bull — he is to bring outside the camp to a clean place, where the ashes are emptied out. There he is to burn it on wood with fire; there, where the ashes are emptied out, it is to be burned up.

This deals with inadvertent sins...

Leviticus 4
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
4 (v) Adonai said to Moshe, 2 “Tell the people of Isra’el: ‘If anyone sins inadvertently against any of the mitzvot of Adonai concerning things which should not be done, if he does any one of them, 3 then, if it is the anointed cohen who sinned and thus brought guilt on the people, he is to offer Adonai a young bull without defect as a sin offering for the sin he committed. 4 He must bring the bull to the entrance of the tent of meeting before Adonai, lay his hand on the bull’s head and slaughter the bull in the presence of Adonai. 5 The anointed cohen is to take some of the bull’s blood and bring it to the tent of meeting. 6 The cohen is to dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times in the presence of Adonai in front of the curtain of the sanctuary. 7 The cohen is to put some of the blood on the horns of the altar for fragrant incense before Adonai there in the tent of meeting. All the remaining blood of the bull he is to pour out at the base of the altar for burnt offerings, which is at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 8 He is to remove from the bull for the sin offering all of its fat — the fat covering the inner organs, all the fat above the inner organs, 9 the two kidneys, the fat on them near the flanks, and the covering of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys 10 as it is removed from an ox sacrificed as a peace offering; and the cohen is to make these parts go up in smoke on the altar for burnt offerings. 11 But the bull’s hide and all its flesh, with its head, the lower parts of its legs, its inner organs and dung — 12 in other words, the entire bull — he is to bring outside the camp to a clean place, where the ashes are emptied out. There he is to burn it on wood with fire; there, where the ashes are emptied out, it is to be burned up.

As you read, there are part, like the blood which is taken inside to be sprinkled, and poured out. The internal organs are reduced to ashes upon the altar. But the rest of the bull are taken to a burn pile outside the temple and burnt to ashes. What is God telling us in the reduction to ashes? ON further investigation...

Leviticus 6
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Parashah 25: Tzav (Give an order) 6:1(8) – 8:36

6 (8) Adonai said to Moshe, 2 (9) “Give this order to Aharon and his sons: ‘This is the law for the burnt offering [a]: it is what goes up on its firewood upon the altar all night long, until morning; in this way the fire of the altar will be kept burning. 3 (10) When the fire has consumed the burnt offering on the altar, the cohen, having put on his linen garment and covered himself with his linen shorts, is to remove the ashes and put them beside the altar. 4 (11) Then he is to remove those garments and put on others, before carrying the ashes outside the camp to a clean place. 5 (12) In this way, the fire on the altar will be kept burning and not be allowed to go out. Each morning, the cohen is to kindle wood on it, arrange the burnt offering and make the fat of the peace offerings go up in smoke. 6 (13) Fire is to be kept burning on the altar continually; it is not to go out.

The fire consumes the flesh, but is kept burning while the ashes are removed... very important ceremony... But what is it saying... my mind went to the statement of flesh being thrown in the lake of fire, the eternal fire... is there a connection? Is God giving an illustration of the end of sin bearing flesh, reduced to ashes, in the eternal flames? Everyone knows of the red heifer, and have often wondered about its place in the sacrificial system God designed to teach us on how He deals with sin.

Numbers 19:5
The heifer is to be burned to ashes before his eyes — its skin, meat, blood and dung is to be burned to ashes.

There is a cleansing process by ashes used to sanctify the sanctuary.

Numbers 19:10
The one who collected the ashes of the heifer is to wash his clothes and be unclean until evening. For the people of Isra’el and for the foreigner staying with them this will be a permanent regulation....12 He must purify himself with [these ashes] on the third and seventh days; then he will be clean. But if he does not purify himself the third and seventh days, he will not be clean. ....17 “For the unclean person they are to take some of the ashes of the animal burned up as a purification from sin and add them to fresh water in a container.

Joshua said something harsh..

Joshua 7:15
The person who is caught with things in his possession that were reserved for destruction is to be burned to ashes, he and everything he has, because he has violated the covenant of Adonai and has committed a shameful deed in Isra’el.’”

Is this the ultimate punishment for violating the covenant of God? So does ashes have more meaning?

1 Kings 13:3
That same day he also gave a sign: “Here is the sign which Adonai has decreed: “‘The altar will be split apart; the ashes on it will be scattered about.’”

It is a small incident in the course of Israel's history, but it is also one of those things that sits on the back burner of my mind ...hmmm...

2 Kings 23:4
Then the king ordered Hilkiyahu the cohen hagadol, the cohanim of the second rank and the doorkeepers to remove from the sanctuary of Adonai all the articles that had been made for Ba‘al, for the asherah and for the entire army of heaven; and he burned them up outside Yerushalayim in the fields of Kidron and carried their ashes to Beit-El. ...6 He took the asherah from the house of Adonai to Vadi Kidron outside Yerushalayim and burned it in Vadi Kidron, stamped the ashes to powder and threw the powder onto the burial-ground for the common people....15 He smashed the altar that was at Beit-El and the high place made by Yarov‘am the son of N’vat, who caused Isra’el to sin. Yes, he smashed that altar and the high place; he burned the high place, stamped the ashes to powder, and burned up the asherah.

Obviously, it was thought to be the proper ending for idol worship. Which brings me to those who threw ashes on their head when fasting.. or in serious grieving... or in repentance..

Isaiah 58:5
“Is this the sort of fast I want, a day when a person mortifies himself? Is the object to hang your head like a reed and spread sackcloth and ashes under yourself? Is this what you call a fast, a day that pleases Adonai?

Where did this tradition come from? Again with the ashes, like it is saying something.

Jeremiah 6:26
Daughter of my people, put on sackcloth, roll in ashes, mourn as if for an only son, wail most bitterly; for suddenly the destroyer will come upon us.

God even instructs His people to do this when the seriousness of the situation is upon His people.

Ezekiel 27:30
mourning aloud at your fate, crying bitterly, throwing dust on their heads, rolling in the ashes,

Even gentile nations back then knew that it was evidence of extreme heart rendering sorrowfulness over their past.

Jonah 3:6
When the news reached the king of Ninveh, he got up from his throne, took off his robe, put on sackcloth and sat in ashes.

According to God it is the ultimate result of transgressions, this reducing to ashes.

Ezekiel 28:18
By your many crimes in dishonest trading, you have profaned your sanctuaries; therefore I brought forth fire from within you, and it has devoured you; I reduced you into ashes on the ground in the sight of all who can see you.

The children of God who are saved will one day walk on the ash remains of those who failed to repent.

Malachi 3:21
You will trample the wicked, they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I take action,” says Adonai-Tzva’ot.

 

[Avodat]

You are on the right lines but I'm not going to enlarge further - I don't have the time to debate such a large area of theology.

So, yes, G_d does tell more than one person - and, yes, I have preached on this theme a few times.

 

[LottyH]

Visionary, that sounds profound, I'm still digesting it..