Just Puppets?

[Skala]

Skala brought up clay. I did not.

You said you never heard of a clay puppet. I provided you with a reference.

And, again the extent of God's control in the life of a person is relevant to Soteriology. I know you can make the connection.

Rom 9:20-23
(20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
(21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
(22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
(23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory--

 

[Hammster]

If by "control" you mean "make" or "force" me to do everything in life that I do, then NO. Do you think God forces you to do everything that you do?

Please define control.

to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command.

I cannot do anything outside the controlled parameters He has set. (I cannot flap my arms and fly). However, there are many things I can do (permission) without Him forcing (controlling) me to do them (puppet).

So there's no way God would stop you from sinning?

 

[janxharris]

Well, I know I am not born again by my own power.

I know I don't believe by my own power.

I know I don't love God by my own power.

I know I don't obey God by my own power.

I know I don't hope in God by my own power

I know I don't trust God by my own power.

I know I don't pray by my own power.

I know I don't die to sin by my own power.

I know I don't walk in faith by my own power.

I know I don't rejoice in God by my own power.

I know I don't worship by my own power.

I know I don't repent by my own power.

I know I don't understand Scripture by my own power.

I know I don't love the brethren by my own power.

If that makes me a puppet, then I am thrilled to be God's puppet.

What is let that is you yourself? If God controls every aspect then what remains?

 

[janxharris]

Rom 9:20-23
(20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
(21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
(22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
(23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory--

You cannot seriously consider that this applies to a man's eternal destiny?

If you do, which came first the chicken (God's election/reprobation) or the egg (Man's sin, beginning with Adam)?

 

[Skala]

You cannot seriously consider that this applies to a man's eternal destiny?

You seriously cannot consider that it doesn't? Have you actually read the flipping chapter?

If you do, which came first the chicken (God's election/reprobation) or the egg (Man's sin, beginning with Adam)?

Election is referred to in the Bible as "the election of grace". You can't be gracious to people who aren't considered as sinful.

Thus, God elected/reprobated people whom he considered to be guilty for sin.

 

[gmm4j]

You seriously cannot consider that it doesn't? Have you actually read the flipping chapter?



Election is referred to in the Bible as "the election of grace". You can't be gracious to people who aren't considered as sinful.

Thus, God elected/reprobated people whom he considered to be guilty for sin.

flipping chapter?

 

[Clare73]

Well, I know I am not born again by my own power.

I know I don't believe by my own power.

I know I don't love God by my own power.

I know I don't obey God by my own power.

I know I don't hope in God by my own power

I know I don't trust God by my own power.

I know I don't pray by my own power.

I know I don't die to sin by my own power.

I know I don't walk in faith by my own power.

I know I don't rejoice in God by my own power.

I know I don't worship by my own power.

I know I don't repent by my own power.

I know I don't understand Scripture by my own power.

I know I don't love the brethren by my own power.

If that makes me a puppet, then I am thrilled to be God's puppet.

What is left that is you yourself? If God controls every aspect then what remains?

What of myself is better than what God gives?

Why would I not want what is better?

I don't see the problem.

 

[bottomofsandal]

What is let that is you yourself? If God controls every aspect then what remains?

Sounds like abiding/indwelling of The Holy Spirit.

Jesus said He is in us and we are in Him, and He and The Father are one.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Sounds like abiding/indwelling of The Holy Spirit.

Jesus said He is in us and we are in Him, and He and The Father are one.

Yup, it appears that God has made us new people.

The only part of the old me that is left is the part which still leans towards sin. With God's help and grace I will conquer that too, one day.

 

[gmm4j]

Do you think God is in control of your life? Or do you think that you can do something outside of His Control?

Calvinist Quotes on God Determining All Evil | A Theology in Tension

 

[crimsonleaf]

Calvinist Quotes on God Determining All Evil | A Theology in Tension

So is this your stock reply on all threads now? I've read it and I'm not impressed to be honest. A page full of other people's opinions isn't helpful, especially when robbed of context or defence by the original authors.

 

[Hammster]

So is this your stock reply on all threads now? I've read it and I'm not impressed to be honest. A page full of other people's opinions isn't helpful, especially when robbed of context or defence by the original authors.

When ops have been addresses thoroughly, and the OP has to result to this (bumping with spam), it shows that they really didn't have much to begin with.

 

[Epiphoskei]

What is let that is you yourself? If God controls every aspect then what remains?

Nothing needs remain nor needs be of us ultimately. We do not define our central nature around elements which we conceive of as being autonomous from God.

 

[janxharris]

You seriously cannot consider that it doesn't? Have you actually read the flipping chapter?

When Paul sums up the arguments he has been making, his focuses is on groups of people. He is saying that God has chosen to work through the Gentiles; no individual salvation is in view.

Romans 9:30-32
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

If God elected Jacob unto eternal life and Esau to eternal damnation without considering anything that they might do (good or bad), how is Esau still responsible?