Parenting Advice

[Inkachu]

Unfortunately, no, Mrs L Don's computer set up is actually a "lab", it's multiple monitors, hard drives, including an entire server rack. We converted our 3rd bedroom into an office for all this stuff. My computer is more basic, but there's still no room in our bedroom, it's pretty small.

OH, he was peeved last night when I sat in the office while he did a homework assignment on my computer lol.

"Mom, you don't have to sit and watch me! I PROMISE I'm not going to do anything!"

"Sorry, buddy, but I've heard it all before."

"But I didn't promise to CHANGE before, this time I promise to CHANGE."

"Well, that's good, but you have to follow up your words with actions. You can't expect people to just accept your words if you don't prove them with how you live your life."

"But I can't concentrate with you in here!"

"That's too bad, I'm not leaving."

"But you're WATCHING me. I can't do this with you WATCHING me."

"I'm not watching you, I'm just sitting over here."

"So why are you in here if you're not going to watch me?"

"Cause I know you won't do anything if I'm in the room."

This is just a sample of what I deal with lol. I've said since he was little, that he needs to be a lawyer. That child can argue anything until you're ready to gouge out your own eyeballs lol. When he was finished, he stomped out of the room and told me to leave him alone, heh. He was fine after some time had passed, though. I made sure to spent lots of time with him and give him lots of attention all through the evening <3

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

Can you put a really good lock on the office door? Or maybe you can get a thing that makes a sound when it opens - we have those at the day program in the agency where I work.

 

[hedrick]

I don't know what approach I would have taken. Not being a parent I haven't had to deal with this. But given where you are, I have a suggestion.

He's committed to changing. You want to encourage that, and make him believe that getting back your trust is not impossible.

What I'd say is "I know you promised to change, and I believe you. But I know myself that it's really hard to make a change, and I'm trying to help. (talk about your own experience in trying to change bad habits of behavior.) I'm not going to sit here while you use the computer every night until you're 18. But I do want to do it long enough to help you establish the right habit. After that, I'll back off a little, but still watch what you're doing. Let's talk about how this is going to happen." If you can get him to be honest about the fact that he has in the past not lived up to agreements, and have him help plan the process, you're probably have the best chance of making this work without ruining the rest of your relationship with him, which sounds like it's pretty good.

You can't make a system that it's impossible for him to get around. So in the end you're going to have to find a way to work with him to help him develop the right habits.

 

[Inkachu]

Can you put a really good lock on the office door? Or maybe you can get a thing that makes a sound when it opens - we have those at the day program in the agency where I work.

That's not a bad idea. I'll have to ask Don, since he'd be the one installing it and doing all that manly stuff And then we'd have to worry about where to put the key, making sure the Nub doesn't know where it is AND never losing it (ahem, Don is awful about misplacing things lol). There's still the issue of the TV/computers in the living room and our bedroom (our TV's are directly linked to the house network), so there's technically four computers around the house we have to watch out for. Hopefully, as long as we're vigilant about our passwords and locking everything at night... we'll be OK. Of course, the bigger issue is his heart; he'll be the one to ultimately decide to obey or not, we can't lock down the entire house for the rest of his childhood lol.

I don't know what approach I would have taken. Not being a parent I haven't had to deal with this. But given where you are, I have a suggestion.

He's committed to changing. You want to encourage that, and make him believe that getting back your trust is not impossible.

What I'd say is "I know you promised to change, and I believe you. But I know myself that it's really hard to make a change, and I'm trying to help. (talk about your own experience in trying to change bad habits of behavior.) I'm not going to sit here while you use the computer every night until you're 18. But I do want to do it long enough to help you establish the right habit. After that, I'll back off a little, but still watch what you're doing. Let's talk about how this is going to happen." If you can get him to be honest about the fact that he has in the past not lived up to agreements, and have him help plan the process, you're probably have the best chance of making this work without ruining the rest of your relationship with him, which sounds like it's pretty good.

You can't make a system that it's impossible for him to get around. So in the end you're going to have to find a way to work with him to help him develop the right habits.

Very sound advice, Hedrick! You may not be a dad, but you've got great parenting instincts, it seems Thank you.

 

[Aibrean]

They do have fingerprint access door locks you know

 

[Inkachu]

Umm yeah, but how expensive must THOSE be?? Just a quick check on Amazon, they're like $200 and up lol.

 

[gideon123]

Celtic

I am a parent.
2 kids ... 9 and 16.

In my view you are being far too STRICT.
It's not a capital crime for kids to play games on a computer.
Maybe it was in your day when you grew up - but your rules are turning your son into a social outcast. I know of NO kid here in California who is subjected to a no-games rule on computers. As a matter of fact, my 9-year old probably spends an hour a day on games. I've got no problem with it - provided she does her homework properly and does her chores around the house. The bottom line is that these kids belong to a "Connected Generation". They text, they twitter, they play games, and they ALL do it. You need to accept that you are way out of touch with where kids are today.

Are there some things your son should not be doing on a computer?
Sure. But simply playing games is not one of them.

Time to revise your own standards.

blessings,
Gideon

 

[hedrick]

They do have fingerprint access door locks you know

Umm yeah, but how expensive must THOSE be?? Just a quick check on Amazon, they're like $200 and up lol.

Cost isn't the only problem. There's got to a limit to how far you go. You need enough to stop impulsive behavior. But if you go too far you undermine any chance of cooperation. What are your end goals? Probably to make sure he spends enough time on homework, gets sleep, and has at least some real-world life. Maybe you could concentrate more on those objectives and try to work with him in regulating his computer use to meet them.

 

[Aibrean]

Celtic

I am a parent.
2 kids ... 9 and 16.

In my view you are being far too STRICT.
It's not a capital crime for kids to play games on a computer.
Maybe it was in your day when you grew up - but your rules are turning your son into a social outcast. I know of NO kid here in California who is subjected to a no-games rule on computers. As a matter of fact, my 9-year old probably spends an hour a day on games. I've got no problem with it - provided she does her homework properly and does her chores around the house. The bottom line is that these kids belong to a "Connected Generation". They text, they twitter, they play games, and they ALL do it. You need to accept that you are way out of touch with where kids are today.

Are there some things your son should not be doing on a computer?
Sure. But simply playing games is not one of them.

Time to revise your own standards.

blessings,
Gideon

So you don't think children should honor their father and mother? Respect is something you don't ignore.

 

[Inkachu]

Celtic

I am a parent.
2 kids ... 9 and 16.

In my view you are being far too STRICT.
It's not a capital crime for kids to play games on a computer.
Maybe it was in your day when you grew up - but your rules are turning your son into a social outcast. I know of NO kid here in California who is subjected to a no-games rule on computers. As a matter of fact, my 9-year old probably spends an hour a day on games. I've got no problem with it - provided she does her homework properly and does her chores around the house. The bottom line is that these kids belong to a "Connected Generation". They text, they twitter, they play games, and they ALL do it. You need to accept that you are way out of touch with where kids are today.

Are there some things your son should not be doing on a computer?
Sure. But simply playing games is not one of them.

Time to revise your own standards.

blessings,
Gideon

Maybe you aren't reading my posts thoroughly. The problem is not with the games themselves, it's with the LYING and DISOBEDIENCE involved when he sneaks around or lies to us about what he's doing. Just as important is the fact that he knows how to mess with passwords and security settings, including downloading pirated material, and he has infected our computers with viruses before. The issue is obedience and trust, NOT the games. I have no problem with computer games (as long as they're appropriate, of course). If he continues to show trustworthiness, he'll get his computer game time back when my husband and I decide it's time.

 

[Inkachu]

Cost isn't the only problem. There's got to a limit to how far you go. You need enough to stop impulsive behavior. But if you go too far you undermine any chance of cooperation. What are your end goals? Probably to make sure he spends enough time on homework, gets sleep, and has at least some real-world life. Maybe you could concentrate more on those objectives and try to work with him in regulating his computer use to meet them.

I agree. There's a balance between disciplining, safeguarding our stuff from his impulsive little fingers, and digging to find the source of the disobedience to begin with. Just locking down the house or shutting him in his room all day won't change his heart towards obedience.

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

That's not a bad idea. I'll have to ask Don, since he'd be the one installing it and doing all that manly stuff And then we'd have to worry about where to put the key, making sure the Nub doesn't know where it is AND never losing it (ahem, Don is awful about misplacing things lol). There's still the issue of the TV/computers in the living room and our bedroom (our TV's are directly linked to the house network), so there's technically four computers around the house we have to watch out for. Hopefully, as long as we're vigilant about our passwords and locking everything at night... we'll be OK. Of course, the bigger issue is his heart; he'll be the one to ultimately decide to obey or not, we can't lock down the entire house for the rest of his childhood lol.



Very sound advice, Hedrick! You may not be a dad, but you've got great parenting instincts, it seems Thank you.

If the office door is locked, it keeps your husband's work stuff safe, right? If so, maybe you guys could just get a lock or something to protect that and let him work on earning your trust with the computers that are elsewhere in your home.

 

[hedrick]

I work with junior high school kids in Sunday School. We talk about honesty enough that I have a reasonable feel for how they think about it and how they behave. Even the best of them get into situations where they lie to their parents, although they'll generally be more honest with parents than teachers and others. I agree that it's important to be able to trust him. But from talking with kids about this for years, I've concluded that kids, at least in our culture, have limits to how much they're willing to 'fess up to. I wish it were otherwise. My generation was a lot less likely to lie and cheat.

As always, I conjecture based on no direct experience.

There's plenty of advice on the web about dealing with lying, e.g. 8 Ways Parents Can Reduce Teenage Lying.

Let me note two observations that are common in advice from people experienced in working with kids. One is that although lying is a moral issue for us, for them it is often a matter of not knowing any other way to deal with a situation. For most kids, it happens when they get pushed into a situation that they can't deal with otherwise. They may see their privacy threatened, or their ability to play games at risk. And they don't quite realize that you're a reasonable enough person that they can probably negotiate a reasonable resolution of their concern, or enough experience in doing that kind of negotiation. Part of your job is to help them develop that.

The second is that parents have a tendency to trap kids. You realize that your son was violating the rules. I have no idea whether you're doing this, but rather than just saying "I saw you doing …." some parents will try to get them to volunteer it, and end up trapping them in a lie.

I'm not saying your should tolerate lies. You shouldn't. But I would recommend trying to keep your son out of situations where he's likely to lie, both by not trapping him, and by as much as possible trying to see what he cares about and helping him see what you care about, and encouraging negotiation for a solution that you can both live with.

A lot of writers recommend "natural consequences." In this case it looks to me like you're doing that: if the issue isn't games, you don't ban games. Instead you monitor his computer activity more closely and limit it to situations where you can watch, backing off as you regain trust. That's a natural consequence of being unable to trust that he'll use the computer appropriately. In general, being able to trust a kid means he gets more freedom.

 

[Inkachu]

Hedrick,

Those are all good points. I know most kids and teens have at least temporary issues with lying (and some much worse than others), and it's usually rationalized with "I can't tell them, they'd kill me" thinking. Even though we all know that parents aren't going to literally kill their kids (or anything close to it, hopefully) for 'fessing up, to a child, the anger and disappointment that their bad choices will bring is worse than the sin of lying, in their minds. The lie seems quicker and easier, so they take it. There's only so much a parent can do in this area. We can't force our kids to think or feel a certain way, all we can do is teach them, talk to them, and model good examples for them. My son and I have always had a very open and candid communication. He's such a talker, he tells me stuff sometimes until he stops and worries that he's talking too much and getting on my nerves. I never, ever want him to feel like that. I'd much rather have him talk my ear off than clam up and withdraw from me. I know what it's like to feel like you literally cannot tell your parents certain things, because of the drama you know will ensue. And while I don't plan on withholding discipline and consequences when they're called for, I know how crucial it is to keep that open line of communication with him as he goes into his teen years. I'm not an over-reactive sort of person, I've never exploded at him or gone "ballistic" over things he's done. Remaining calm and rational and empathetic is so important to me... and I do my best to react that way all the time. Even if I have to point out something he's done wrong, and hand him a punishment for it, I do it calmly, quietly, and always allow him to speak his thoughts and feelings, even if he's just plain mad and upset.

Thanks again, for your post!

 

[Peripatetic]

I have a 12 year old too... the hardest thing about this age is that you can reason with them, they fully understand, but they still do things that are obviously not within the boundaries. This I could understand if there was a reasonable (if selfish and immature) reason. But when asked why, my daughter just looks at my blankly and says, "I don't know."

I wish I had some good advice for you, but at least I can say that I totally relate.

 

[hedrick]

I have a 12 year old too... the hardest thing about this age is that you can reason with them, they fully understand, but they still do things that are obviously not within the boundaries. This I could understand if there was a reasonable (if selfish and immature) reason. But when asked why, my daughter just looks at my blankly and says, "I don't know."

I wish I had some good advice for you, but at least I can say that I totally relate.

I understand. I've spent most of my life teaching junior highs in Sunday School. They have nearly adult verbal skills and reasoning capabilities. In the right situation they seem like adults. So you get surprised when they turn out not to be. As you probably know, there's a biological basis to this: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-still-under-construction/teen-brain.pdf

In short, the last part of the brain that develops is the part that makes decisions. Unless they're really, really careful, they make decisions using a different part of the brain than you do. They end up using their emotions rather than their reasoning. When you consider an action, you are thinking about how much it costs and whether it's fattening. Your daughter is imagining how cool it is. And she probably won't be able to explain why she made the choice she did.

That's why God invented parents. A smart teenager will involve adults in their lives enough to keep them from going too far off the deep end. It's also why most kids eventually grow up to be moderately responsible adults even if their parents don't do a perfect job of parenting. (It's also why smart adults involve kids in their lives. Sometimes it's good do things because they're cool.)

 

[Inkachu]

Peri - I get that all the time, too lol. The blank stare, the "deer in the headlights" look, the shrug, the "I don't know". 12 year old's are definitely running on emotions more than sense. And that's not a bad thing or an insult to them, it's just how they develop I'm sure I was the same when I was 12.

 

[Peripatetic]

12 year old's are definitely running on emotions more than sense. And that's not a bad thing or an insult to them, it's just how they develop I'm sure I was the same when I was 12.

I was probably the same too, but for some reason I don't remember it that way. I have to bite my lip to keep myself from playing the "when I was your age..." card too often.

 

[Inkachu]

Yeah, my husband struggles with that as well I want my son's childhood to be VERY different from my own, so I rarely use that line lol.

 

[gideon123]

Celtic

Actually - I am reading your posts just fine.
I still see a problem with you ... that's as big as your son's behavior.

Before continuing though, let me add that parenting is not a simple game.
I am dealing with real problems with one of my own children right now. Like most things - it's solvable. But it requires attention.

Having said that - my impression is that you've drawn battle lines where no battle needs to exist. Playing computer games is NOT a crime. Neither is skateboarding, watching TV after 10pm, or texting on a cell phone. I'm not saying your 12-year old is doing all those things. But at various times I do notice people coming onto this Advice forum and mentioning stuff like that.

If you declare that playing computer games is a "bad thing" ... then your son is going to think your have "lost it". Why? Because none of his peers are getting that kind of feedback from their parents. So you are an isolated case. Therefore, you are vastly over-reacting. There is nothing inherently evil about a computer game. It just means that as a parent you have drawn "battle lines" over a behavior which isn't a big deal.

Once you define things that way - you force your son to respond in one of a few ways. You are actually forcing him to do this because he talks to all his peers and compares situations. So he could obey ... but since he's 12 he is starting to think for himself. Or he could decide that your rules make no sense whatsoever - which is what has happened. And hence he simply CUTS you off. From his point of view, if you force him to obey unrealistic rules then his choice is to either cut you out completely, or become a social outcast with his friends. So guess what? He cuts you out. Therefore he now has no choice but to lie to you - since you are asking him to do things that simply make no sense in his world.

So I go back to what I said before. And you may not like this.
But YOU are as much the problem here as he is.
If you don't recognize that and re-evaluate now - you run the risk of really losing contact with him altogether in future years. That is potentially bad, because he will need to make judgments about things like illegal drugs, alcohol, and relationships. My suggestion is that you instead adopt a course which keeps the channel of communications open.

blessings,
Gideon