Just Puppets?

bottomofsandal

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Ha, do you think we are all just puppets?

puppet [ˈpʌpɪt]
n 1. (Performing Arts / Theatre) a. a small doll or figure of a person or animal moved by strings attached to its limbs or by the hand inserted in its cloth body
b. (as modifier) a puppet theatre

2. a. a person, group, state, etc., that appears independent but is in fact controlled by another
b. (as modifier) a puppet government



Does Pinocchio count or is he classified as "real" ?
 
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gmm4j

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He clearly permitted it, or it could not have happened.

True. I agree with you. This is why I make the clear distinction between permission and being the hand in the clay puppet as two vastly different stances.
 
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Hammster

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True. I agree with you. This is why I make the clear distinction between permission and being the hand in the clay puppet as two vastly different stances.

You should.

Is there a soteriological aspect to this thread?
 
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Hammster

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If salvation involves either the Master or the clay puppet it does.

Then you'd best be making some sort of argument towards such. I've never heard of a clay puppet. What do you mean by that?
 
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gmm4j

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Then you'd best be making some sort of argument towards such. I've never heard of a clay puppet. What do you mean by that?

Puppetry is an ancient form of performance. Some historians claim that they pre-date actors in theatre. There is evidence that they were used in Egypt as early as 2000 BC when string-operated figures of wood were manipulated to perform the action of kneading bread, and other string controlled objects. Wire controlled, articulated puppets made of clay and ivory have been found in Egyptian tombs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marionette
 
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bottomofsandal

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If salvation involves either the Master or the clay puppet it does.
Are you agreeable with a Blacksmith illustration ?

Or is there a point when the fiery coals and the metal are somehow separate yet also united ?


Is a "substance" necessary for salvation; from where does it originate ?
 
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Hammster

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Puppetry is an ancient form of performance. Some historians claim that they pre-date actors in theatre. There is evidence that they were used in Egypt as early as 2000 BC when string-operated figures of wood were manipulated to perform the action of kneading bread, and other string controlled objects. Wire controlled, articulated puppets made of clay and ivory have been found in Egyptian tombs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marionette

And what does that have to do with Soteriology?
 
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gmm4j

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Then you'd best be making some sort of argument towards such. I've never heard of a clay puppet. What do you mean by that?

Skala brought up clay. I did not.

You said you never heard of a clay puppet. I provided you with a reference.

And, again the extent of God's control in the life of a person is relevant to Soteriology. I know you can make the connection.
 
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Skala brought up clay. I did not.

You said you never heard of a clay puppet. I provided you with a reference.

And, again the extent of God's control in the life of a person is relevant to Soteriology. I know you can make the connection.

Do you think God is in control of your life? Or do you think that you can do something outside of His Control?
 
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gmm4j

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Are you agreeable with a Blacksmith illustration ?

Or is there a point when the fiery coals and the metal are somehow separate yet also united ?


Is a "substance" necessary for salvation; from where does it originate ?

Hey Bottom,
I'm sorry, I'm a little tired. This went over my head; at least me trying to figure where you are going with it did...

My initial responses are:

I am agreeable with a blacksmith illustration to an extent. (They all break down).

Yes, there is a point when fiery coals and the metal are somehow separate and yet also united.

Yes, an originating "substance" in necessary for salvation.
 
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gmm4j

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Do you think God is in control of your life?

If by "control" you mean "make" or "force" me to do everything in life that I do, then NO. Do you think God forces you to do everything that you do?

Please define control.


Or do you think that you can do something outside of His Control?

I cannot do anything outside the controlled parameters He has set. (I cannot flap my arms and fly). However, there are many things I can do (permission) without Him forcing (controlling) me to do them (puppet).
 
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bottomofsandal

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Hey Bottom,
I'm sorry, I'm a little tired. This went over my head; at least me trying to figure where you are going with it did...

My initial responses are:

I am agreeable with a blacksmith illustration to an extent. (They all break down).

Yes, there is a point when fiery coals and the metal are somehow separate and yet also united.

Yes, an originating "substance" in necessary for salvation.
The Puppet Master scenario seems to have negative connotations and implode under it's own weight (IMHO). I was offering other analogies and metaphors for consideration, but as you point out, they all fall short. However, if we are talking about being "under control" by The Spirit of God, that would be difficult to argue against. I am guessing you are looking only at puppeteering in regards to salvation and not post-salvation in the life of the believer ?
 
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Clare73

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Ha, do you think we are all just puppets?
Well, I know I am not born again by my own power.

I know I don't believe by my own power.

I know I don't love God by my own power.

I know I don't obey God by my own power.

I know I don't hope in God by my own power

I know I don't trust God by my own power.

I know I don't pray by my own power.

I know I don't die to sin by my own power.

I know I don't walk in faith by my own power.

I know I don't rejoice in God by my own power.

I know I don't worship by my own power.

I know I don't repent by my own power.

I know I don't understand Scripture by my own power.

I know I don't love the brethren by my own power.

If that makes me a puppet, then I am thrilled to be God's puppet.
 
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