Priest accused of causing "mental conflict" by preaching Catholic doctrine; gay...

[Michie]

Maybe, but that may not always be compatible with the role of of chaplain

Maybe what?

 

[Michie]

Here is the big meanie head now.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Maybe, but that may not always be compatible with the role of of chaplain

The college has chaplains for the various faiths. This priest is the Catholic Chaplain for Catholic students.

Jim

 

[KatherineS]

Something these students forget.
The priest is doing his job. He has free speech as well.

No one has forgot. They both have free speech rights. Neither has any right to the University's property.

Just like you have the right to tell these students to find another school and the students and the University have the right to ignore you.

 

[ebia]

The college has chaplains for the various faiths. This priest is the Catholic Chaplain for Catholic students.

Jim

Being a chaplain in a public community - even where there are other faith chaplains - is still different from being a parish priest.

 

[Michie]

The college has chaplains for the various faiths. This priest is the Catholic Chaplain for Catholic students.

Jim

That was what I thought as well.

 

[KatherineS]

The University also has in addition to the Newman Center, an offical student group for Gay Catholics. So every one can be happy.

 

[MKJ]

The college has chaplains for the various faiths. This priest is the Catholic Chaplain for Catholic students.

Jim

Well, no, that is not generally the way a chaplaincy works.

Students (patients, prisoners, soldiers) of a particular faith may go to a chaplain of their own faith, sure. But that is not only the case. In many cases there will be an on duty chaplain who will handle most of the things that go on on a given day, and it may be that it is a different person each day of the week. Chaplains are also expected to help anyone in the student body (prison etc) that approaches them.

When I was in the military, our unit chaplain was United Church of Canada. Of course not everyone in the unit was UCC, but he was the guy in charge of our spiritual care. In some cases that might mean referring us, but not necessarily. (In fact at one time in Canada, there were only Catholic and Protestant military chaplains. If you were a Jew or Muslim or whatever, you were counted as a Protestant, because you weren't Catholic!)

This is one of the complicated aspects of a chaplaincy.

On the other hand, as a Catholic chaplain to a Catholic student, it seems with an ongoing relationship, I dont see how it would really have been a problem for this guy to be clear about what the Catholic teaching was on this, just as much as with any other inappropriate sexual relationship.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Being a chaplain in a public community - even where there are other faith chaplains - is still different from being a parish priest.

But he doesn't stop being a Catholic priest.

Also in this case, the gay males are Catholics, on said he served as an altar server and considered going into the priesthood.

The priest doesn't abandon Catholic teaching in order to make people feel good because it doesn't fit in with the platitudes of their life-style.


Jim

 

[Rhamiel]

I mean, I studied to be a priest. I know many men who became priests. I have two friends from my circle of friends who became Catholic priests. Two who became Orthodox priests. And two of us who decided that marriage was our path after discernment. And what this young man is saying is (attitude and knowledge wise)...off somehow for someone discerning a vocation. So I am interested to see if there is more.

maybe when the student was younger, he did not know he was homosexual?
or maybe he thought he could be a celibate homosexual and then he got a boyfriend in college?
or maybe he was never that serious about becoming a priest in the first place?

 

[Fantine]

Sheesh! The priest didn't stand outside the Newman Center with a megaphone shouting, "Repent, sinners!" when these young men walked past.

He didn't go to their cars in the parking lot and put rainbow decals with the "No" line running diagonally through them.

If his behavior constituted harassment, then they would have a case. Supporting the principles of his faith does not constitute harassment--and no one was forcing the young men to listen to him.

 

[WarriorAngel]

#1

...university students seek ouster from campus

Students try to banish Catholic chaplain from campus for anti-gay stance


Priest accused of causing "mental conflict" by preaching Catholic doctrine; gay university students seek ouster from campus...

We knew this would come.
Just saying...


Isnt it part or innuendo of the hate crime bill?
Christian/Catholic persecution is no surprise. In fact - it's popular.

 

[ebia]

Sheesh! The priest didn't stand outside the Newman Center with a megaphone shouting, "Repent, sinners!" when these young men walked past.

He didn't go to their cars in the parking lot and put rainbow decals with the "No" line running diagonally through them.

If his behavior constituted harassment, then they would have a case. Supporting the principles of his faith does not constitute harassment--and no one was forcing the young men to listen to him.

The question is whether the way he addressed the question is appropriate for the role of chaplain in that institution. That he didn't commit some other offence is something of a strawman. Had he not been chaplain there would be no case to answer, but when one has an official role one is obliged to behave within the expectations of that role.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The question is whether the way he addressed the question is appropriate for the role of chaplain in that institution. That he didn't commit some other offence is something of a strawman. Had he not been chaplain there would be no case to answer, but when one has an official role one is obliged to behave within the expectations of that role.

Again, he's the Catholic Chaplain, not the Chaplain for the entire school.

He was counseling Catholic Students, who happen to be gay and were offended because the priest gave them Church teaching on homosexual acts.

You're trying to twist the context of the story.

Jim

 

[ebia]

Again, he's the Catholic Chaplain, not the Chaplain for the entire school.

He was counseling Catholic Students, who happen to be gay and were offended because the priest gave them Church teaching on homosexual acts.

You're trying to twist the context of the story.

Jim

I'm certainly not trying to. Even being a "Catholic chaplain" is not the same as being a parish priest. The expectations of a chaplain are usually much more open, pastoral and counselling oriented.

 

[MKJ]

I'm certainly not trying to. Even being a "Catholic chaplain" is not the same as being a parish priest. The expectations of a chaplain are usually much more open, pastoral and counselling oriented.

I agree with you in general, but i do not see how this could really fall outside of what would be expected in a university situation. A Catholic chaplain might have to be more general when counseling, a non-catholic student, but even then he would not be wrong to say how he understood the situation. But as a Catholic student I think he could be fairly clear that what was going on was outside Catholic teaching.

When I was a student I attended the Anglican chapel and that is where I was confirmed, so a similar kind of situation. There would have been no problem with the priest being clear with Anglican students about moral issues.

I also think it would have done the kid no favours to beat around the bush. How he got that involved in the Catholic Church without realizing that being in a homosexual relationship would be a problem is something I cannot figure out.

 

[Michie]

Again, he's the Catholic Chaplain, not the Chaplain for the entire school.

He was counseling Catholic Students, who happen to be gay and were offended because the priest gave them Church teaching on homosexual acts.

You're trying to twist the context of the story.

Jim

No matter the situation he cannot lie or deny the faith. Especially with Catholic students.

 

[ebia]

I agree with you in general, but i do not see how this could really fall outside of what would be expected in a university situation. A Catholic chaplain might have to be more general when counseling, a non-catholic student, but even then he would not be wrong to say how he understood the situation. But as a Catholic student I think he could be fairly clear that what was going on was outside Catholic teaching.

I said earlier, I don't think that in itself is problematic, but what would be an appropriate way of expressing that would be more restrictive than in other situations. "You understand that the Catholic Church considers homosexual activity (or any sexual activity for that matter) unacceptable in a priest" would be fine. "Your behaviour is objectively disordered" probably not. "You are disordered" definitely not.

When I was a student I attended the Anglican chapel and that is where I was confirmed, so a similar kind of situation. There would have been no problem with the priest being clear with Anglican students about moral issues.

I also think it would have done the kid no favours to beat around the bush. How he got that involved in the Catholic Church without realizing that being in a homosexual relationship would be a problem is something I cannot figure out.

That does seem odd. Unless maybe he had experience of a homosexual priest, but you would think that would have come out in the story.

 

[Rhamiel]

I'm certainly not trying to. Even being a "Catholic chaplain" is not the same as being a parish priest. The expectations of a chaplain are usually much more open, pastoral and counselling oriented.

Pastoral, as in like a Pastor?
he was trying to lead a lost sheep away from something that is harmful

sin is harmful to the human person in a core and fundamental way
sin harms the soul
is not the purpose of counselling to facilitate healing? or lead people on a healthier life path?
neither healing or a healthy life path are possible while committing unnatural acts

 

[ebia]

Pastoral, as in like a Pastor?
he was trying to lead a lost sheep away from something that is harmful

sin is harmful to the human person in a core and fundamental way
sin harms the soul
is not the purpose of counselling to facilitate healing? or lead people on a healthier life path?
neither healing or a healthy life path are possible while committing unnatural acts

That's not the mode of thinking normally expected of formal chaplain, no.