Praying for the Emperor: How Often Should We Pray for Our Leaders/President?

[ArmyMatt]

Thicker is something I tend to prefer usually anyhow....so it's not a problem

sounds good to me

 

[Gxg (G²)]

sounds good to me

Cool...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Cool...

word

 

[Gxg (G²)]

word

Still trying to find out where that phrase came from.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Still trying to find out where that phrase came from.

haha, no idea, but it seemed to be a good follow up to your cool....

 

[Gxg (G²)]

haha, no idea, but it seemed to be a good follow up to your cool....

It does work

 

[ArmyMatt]

It does work

word

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It's short, and yes, it is the disposition of the heart and mind when praying even the short prayers that matters, and admittedly, there are times when I don't pray as I should. Praying is hard work...for me, anyway.

Don't know if it was missed from earlier - but many times, even with the prayers others have offered which I heard, I always wondered how far it could go (even if/when they meant it in their heart and prayed it often) if they were praying something that was not Biblical/in line with the church.

Scripture coming to mind is the following:

“And, behold, the servants of David and Joab came from pursuing a troop, and brought in a great spoil with them: but Abner was not with David in Hebron; for he had sent him away, and he was gone in peace. When Joab and all the host that was with him were come, they told Joab, saying, Abner the son of Ner came to the king, and he hath sent him away, and he is gone in peace. Then Joab came to the king, and said, What hast thou done? behold, Abner came unto thee; why is it that thou hast sent him away, and he is quite gone? Thou knowest Abner the son of Ner, that he came to deceive thee, and to know thy going out and thy coming in, and to know all that thou doest. And when Joab was come out from David, he sent messengers after Abner, which brought him again from the well of Sirah: but David knew it not. And when Abner was returned to Hebron, Joab took him aside in the gate to speak with him quietly, and smote him there under the fifth rib, that he died, for the blood of Asahel his brother. And afterward when David heard it, he said, "I and my kingdom are guiltless before the LORD for ever from the blood of Abner the son of Ner: Let it rest on the head of Joab, and on all his father's house; and let there not fail from the house of Joab one that hath an issue, or that is a leper, or that leaneth on a staff, or that falleth on the sword, or that lacketh bread." So Joab and Abishai his brother slew Abner, because he had slain their brother Asahel at Gibeon in the battle” (2 Samuel 3:22-30).​

On Joab, he was David's commander in chief, son of Zeruiah, one of David's sisters (I Chron. 2:16). Although Joab's kinship with David no doubt helped him to attain the high post of Israelite commander in chief, his bravery on the battlefield/leadership in war, and his loyalty to David all helped him in occupying a position of eminence in the state government established by David. Joab first appeared in David's service in the armed encounter at the pool of Gibeon between the servants of David and the followers of *Abner son of Ner. At that time Joab was already the leader of David's armed force and was empowered to muster all the men of Judah for war (II Sam. 2:28). However, from the mention of Joab's brothers, Asahel and Abishai, in the list of David's captains (which is most probably from the early days of David's reign in Hebron), it would appear that Joab occupied a leading position in David's band of warriors even before David was proclaimed king in Hebron. In the stories about the period of David's reign in Hebron, Joab appears as the leader of David's force; but in the account of the capture of Jerusalem given in I Chronicles 11:6, one finds: "And David said, 'Whoever shall smite the Jebusites first shall be chief and commander.' And Joab the son of Zeruiah went up first, so he became chief." According to this verse, Joab was appointed commander in chief only after the capture of Jerusalem, i.e., at the end of David's reign in Hebron. When Hanun son of Nahash, the Ammonite, deliberately provoked David, the Israelite king sent Joab to wage war against the Ammonites and their allies (II Sam. 10; I Chron. 19) - a battle Joab showed his military resourcefulness and his ability to inspire his soldiers (II Sam. 10:9–12). And he also played a leading role in the defeat of the Edomites (II Sam. 8:13–14; I Kings 11:16; Ps. 60:2).

However, Joab's concern for his own position and for the stability of David's kingdom led to his acting, in many matters, on his own initiative. Thus, he murdered Abner, after Abner had made a covenant with David and promised to bring the supporters of the house of Saul over to him. Joab's reason for killing Abner was that he was a spy (II Sam. 3:25); but, at the same time, the murder enabled Joab to take revenge for Abner's slaying of his brother, Asahel (II Sam. 2:23; 3:26–27), and also to remove from his path an obvious rival for the post of commander in chief. No explanation from David would have caused Joab to change his mind, for he was intent on punishing Abner...as Abner must have thought that he was being recalled by David when Joab’s messengers caught up with him. Hebron, the city of refuge (Joshua 20:7, Numbers 35:24-26 ) was chosen as the location where Abner was to be assassinated, so the place of mercy was used as a place of murder. Counter to what the Lord said, Joab violated God's commands - and it placed David in a very dangerous prediciment politically when it came to hindering the unification of his kingdom. However, as Joab was the commander of the army/wielded significant power - and was too strong for David - David simply prayed against him. On hearing what Joab had done, David was filled with repulsion and condemned him for his wicked deed. “He hath put forth his hands against such as be at peace with him: he hath broken his covenant. The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords” (Psalm 55:20-21). And David also pronounced a curse on Joab’s family. It retrospect Joab ought to have been put to death for the crime he committed, but probably David thought that to do so would have alienated his army and the people.


Even in cursing Joab, David was too well aware of the power wielded by the sons of Zeruiah to dare to dismiss him (II Sam. 3:39). But David prayed significantly against the man. When David promised to appoint Amasa in Joab's place (II Sam. 19:14) as the price of his leading Judah to welcome him back from his flight to Transjordan, Joab took the first opportunity to murder Amasa (ibid., 20:9–11). Though expressing his disgust at Joab's murders (I Kings 2:5), David never penalized Joab even when his reign was well established. Toward the end of David's life, Joab tried to maintain his position of power in the royal court by taking an active part in the intrigues that developed in connection with the succession to the throne, giving his support to Adonijah (I Kings 1:7). In so doing, Joab sealed his own fate, since by supporting Adonijah he was outmaneuvered by the pro-Solomon party, which moved quickly to eliminate him. According to I Kings 2:5–6, David ordered Solomon to take vengeance on Joab for the murders he had committed, and "not let his head go down to Sheol (the netherworld) in peace."

Given David's status as prophet/king and the tendency of these biblical blessings and curses to be central to characters' lives, we would expect it to be a true curse. And we see at least some of it confirmed in the very story, as Joab himself "falls by the sword." Thus, while he gets to continue living by the sword for David' sake, he dies by it as well. Then Joab's line drops off the narrative altogether, further confirming it...as if God took intentional steps in the narrative to tell us that Joab's curse was effectve.

What David did was similar to what occurred throughout the Psalms ... a special category of the psalms known as “imprecatory prayers– a lament in the form of petition to destroy one’s enemies. It is the personal prayer of an individual, someone who has been dealt an injustice by another–and usually more powerful–person. ( Psalms 69 and 109 are examples ) ...Like what Paul did in 2Ti 4:14 when he said "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works." David Prowlinson did an excellent series once on the issue of imprecatory prayers

In example, a lot of times, it often seems that prayers for the president are done in selfishness...like praying he'd do everything believers want in order to make the U.S a "Christian Nation" (at the exclusion of all others) rather than praying for real wisdom on how to govern everyone in the nation including those he disagrees with. One of my good friends noted that once


Others pray things that are akin to wishing for the destruction of the President, such as one pastor (Wilely Drake) who prayed for the destruction of the president...and same with others such as Pastor Steve Anderson from the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Arizona who wanted the destruction of President Barack Obama alongside many others. Other prayers offered up were done on the basis of what folks saw in the OT.

And today, others have done the same...or at least attempted. In example, during the beginning of the president's term and throughout it, Psalm 109:8 was a Bible verse that others would repeat..in their mind being the form of a “prayer for Obama,”

“May his days be few; may another take
his office.”
​

It really would tick me off seeing it - as it seemed to be blantant disregard for the text of scripture - especially since the next verse reads, “May his children be orphans, and his wife a widow.” The passage goes on the same way–asking God to pulverize this poor fellow–that he lose all his worldly goods, that his orphans be abandoned, that his father be remembered as a sinner, and finally, that “his memory be cut off from
the earth.” To me, whenever I heard others say that it was a prayer, I thought it does more than anticipate that he leaves office; it entreats God to destroy the president

In my study, what I was was thatPsalm 109 belongs to a special category of the psalms known as “imprecatory” prayers– a lament in the form of petition to destroy one’s enemies. It is the personal prayer of an individual, someone who has been dealt an injustice by another–and usually more powerful–person. The words of Psalm 109 are those of deep agony, the longings of a victim for retribution and justice.

C.S Lewis once wrote on the issue in his marvelous book, Reflections
on the Psalms. As he observed:

In some of the Psalms the spirit of hatred which strikes us in the face is like the heat from a furnace mouth. In
others the same spirit ceases to be frightful only by becoming (to a modern mind) almost comic in its naivety. Examples can be found all over the Psalter, but perhaps the worst is in 109 (p. 20).
​

It seemed that Lewis suspected that it'd be best to leave such psalms
alone. However, later he said that we
must face “facts squarely.”

The hatred is there–festering, gloating, undisguised–and also we should be wicked if we in any way condoned or approved it, or (worse still) used it to justify similar passions in ourselves (p. 22).

​

I was surprised to see that Lewis refered to these psalms as horrible and hateful. In his view, he felt that Psalm 109–and the poetry of its kind in the psalter–should point us back to the evil we carry within and teach us each how to behave with goodness, humility, and love.

But whenever I saw others pray Psalm 109 and others similar for the president that, it seemed to not be an issue about justice as much as selfishness and not a concern for the man. Thankfully, others have sought to address the issue and correct those who refuse to truly intercede for the well-being of the president... ( more here, here, and here ).

Christians Pray for Obama?​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

We pray for "the president and all those in authority" every morning. While I detest some of his policies and positions, I think he is a very personable guy and could be friends with him if we ran in the same circles.

Keeping up with his actions of late, I've been deeply saddened at how it seems the individual seems highly deceived with the folks having money/power...for I came across this recently on my Facebook which shocked me:

• Obama signs Monsanto Protection Act into law

Seeing this and being aware of what occurred with Monsanto on a myriad of issues when it came to environmental devestation/GMOs and the ways things are being slipped in (as others have sought to address well..more here, here and here), part of me couldn't help but consider if prayer should be coupled with more aggressive resistance.

Truthfully, there are times I keep being reminded of films like "The Last Samurai" where the Samurai rebelling against the Emperor in the time of his modernizing Japan were trying to help him remember his values...and h Katsumoto (leader of the Samurai) believed his rebellion to be in the service of the Emperor. For in seeking to go with the system the Emperor set up, they felt they would be harming the Emperor.

Studying the Fathers, I've been wondering on how they'd handle it. Was talking with someone today who was noting that "It's only gonna get worse" - and when it comes to eschatological views, I've been very torn since I've encountered others with views that say the world is going to end horribly/God will judge it - whereas others have a view that says that things can be improved (more shared here) . Talked with my priest on the issue and he shared his view on how things seem to be progressing worse...but that we're to still lift up our leaders in prayer - and that we should not be involved politically since the system is set up for not glorifying the Lord. But I wonder ....e

 

[Thekla]

I think we should always pray for them - for God's will in the matter.

On the Monsanto issue (and the like), I do think we need to take whatever action we can.

And to consider this - our (pres.) vote would not have an impact on the Monsanto issue (as Romney had/s ties to M. and seemed pretty wholeheartedly dedicated to the corporatist model).

Re: the eschaton -- our Bible study teacher pointed out that all the plagues of Revelation are essentially man made ...

 

[Gnarwhal]

I confess, I'm really terrible at praying for others unless there's something pressing in their lives that I've been personally made aware of. Other than that I have a very bad habit of not praying. Even though I voted for him, I'm not in a regular habit of praying for him or any of the other executive or congressional leaders.

I guess that's to my shame.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think we should always pray for them - for God's will in the matter.
.

God's will is always a big deal.....although I do wonder what would

On the Monsanto issue (and the like), I do think we need to take whatever action we can.

And to consider this - our (pres.) vote would not have an impact on the Monsanto issue (as Romney had/s ties to M. and seemed pretty wholeheartedly dedicated to the corporatist model).

Do you feel that in taking action, we can actually expect real change to occur - or should our change be like the monastics who simply sought to live differently to make a point? Or should we be taking action in the sense of continually praying for the hearts of those involved in Monsanto to change?

Re: the eschaton -- our Bible study teacher pointed out that all the plagues of Revelation are essentially man made ..

Really? That's interesting - as I had never seen that before. What was the reasoning or explanation for showing such?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I confess, I'm really terrible at praying for others unless there's something pressing in their lives that I've been personally made aware of. Other than that I have a very bad habit of not praying. Even though I voted for him, I'm not in a regular habit of praying for him or any of the other executive or congressional leaders.

I guess that's to my shame.

There with you currently as it concerns not being consistent in intercedding for the president and the issues he deals with. It came to mind recently with the entire issue of his support for gay marriage and other issues where it seems he has been decieved - and I was involved with another friend debating the matter on FB.

 

[Mariya116]

I pray for our President and sincerely wish him to accomplish what he has pledged to us, his voters.

 

[MariaRegina]

I pray for our President and sincerely wish him to accomplish what he has pledged to us, his voters.

I pray that Pres. Obama will repent of his approval of the Monsanto Protection Act by issuing an executive order mandating the labeling of all GMO foods and forbidding the development and propagation of GMO salmon (aka frankenfish).

 

[Thekla]

God's will is always a big deal.....although I do wonder what would
Do you feel that in taking action, we can actually expect real change to occur - or should our change be like the monastics who simply sought to live differently to make a point? Or should we be taking action in the sense of continually praying for the hearts of those involved in Monsanto to change?

As for change -- I don't know. On the one hand, it doesn't seem that it will make a difference. On the other, I think it would be remiss not to try. So in this, yes always to pray. Then to do one's best (avoiding products, 'voting' with one's dollar). Whenever I think signing another petition, calling a legislator one more time, etc. is just useless I recall that Nixon decided against his plan to use nuclear warfare to end the Vietnam war in part because of demonstrations The importance of demonstrating
As one monastic said on the issue of the environmental issue - he cared very much and also didn't (ie I suppose not to make an idol of it).

Really? That's interesting - as I had never seen that before. What was the reasoning or explanation for showing such?

It's been a while, but something to the effect that God does not inflict harm. The disastrous consequences of our actions have been held back, but as (like the destruction of Sodom) there are fewer people turned to God, finally these consequences are poured out ... the teachings reflect his (late) spiritual father's - an archimandrite iirc. Book 1 on Revelation has been published in English; I need to finish the most recent book he gave me to read and then will ask about vol 2 (as it is hopefully covered in there).

 

[Thekla]

There with you currently as it concerns not being consistent in intercedding for the president and the issues he deals with. It came to mind recently with the entire issue of his support for gay marriage and other issues where it seems he has been decieved - and I was involved with another friend debating the matter on FB.

In some sense deceived, but perhaps (on the gay marriage issue) constrained by our secular constitution and laws ...

I don't see how the Monsanto issue would be so much a constitutional issue though - but it seems our Supreme Court (with its support of corporate personhood) would disagree with me.

 

[MariaRegina]

In some sense deceived, but perhaps (on the gay marriage issue) constrained by our secular constitution and laws ...

I don't see how the Monsanto issue would be so much a constitutional issue though - but it seems our Supreme Court (with its support of corporate personhood) would disagree with me.

That Congress had the nerve to protect Monsanto from lawsuits shows that it is interfering with the Judicial System. They had no right to do this. There are supposed to be three separate but equal powers: Legislature, Judicial, and Presidency. Ever since his election, Obama has been dictating what the legislature and judicial powers should do, while the legislature has been slowly nipping away the powers of the judiciary system.

Lord have mercy on us and save us.

 

[Thekla]

That Congress had the nerve to protect Monsanto from lawsuits shows that it is interfering with the Judicial System. They had no right to do this. There are supposed to be three separate but equal powers: Legislature, Judicial, and Presidency. Ever since his election, Obama has been dictating what the legislature and judicial powers should do, while the legislature has been slowly nipping away the powers of the judiciary system.

Lord have mercy on us and save us.

There is no independent judicial system left imo - consider that Monsanto was already protected by law; they denied independent trials and experiments on their 'product' as it was "proprietary". Independent investigation was stifled in this country by Monsanto denying the use of its product for experimentation unless they could control the purpose etc. of experiments.

And we've had a two-tiered judicial/legal system for some time now. (Justice costs $ - so corps use lawsuits to 'kill' opponents, not to mention the impossibility of the 'little guy' to get to court on any issue due to fees etc.).

Here it is again - the behind-the-scenes decision that some entities will not be charged when breaking the law:
Twilight of Justice » Golem XIV - Thoughts

In short, this legislation (Monsanto) is an acknowledgment of what is already in force, and has been for some time ...

 

[gzt]

Ugh, not this Monsanto crap again. Seriously, this is just a liberalist myth, Monsanto is not stealing your precious bodily fluids:

HR 933 |