The Erroneous Christian Belliefs of Heaven and Hell

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kayus

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This may raise eyebrows but the truth must be told.

Do you know that no Christians or the heroes of faith are in heaven now? Even the ungodly are not yet in hell.This is not to say there is no heaven and hell.what I'm getting at is that it is after the resurrection of the dead will there be hell for those who are ungodly and the christian as well as heroes of faith inheriting the earth by reigning with Christ for a thousand years.

The often quoted story of Lazarus and the rich man is has for long be wrongly interpreted and explained.

Do you know Lazarus never went to heaven after he died neither did the rich man went to hell fire immediately?

I know many of you will take a swipe at my statement but I can't but tell you the truth as it is contained in the Bible.

No true christian will ever get to heaven but we will be changed if alive and the dead in Christ will rule with Christ in the kingdom of God starting in the Millennium.

Take time to click through the link in my signature:wave: Wisdom for Living and read after death, what next?
 

LostMarbels

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ZoneChaos

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This may raise eyebrows but the truth must be told.

Do you know that no Christians or the heroes of faith are in heaven now? Even the ungodly are not yet in hell.This is not to say there is no heaven and hell.what I'm getting at is that it is after the resurrection of the dead will there be hell for those who are ungodly and the christian as well as heroes of faith inheriting the earth by reigning with Christ for a thousand years.

The often quoted story of Lazarus and the rich man is has for long be wrongly interpreted and explained.

Do you know Lazarus never went to heaven after he died neither did the rich man went to hell fire immediately?

I know many of you will take a swipe at my statement but I can't but tell you the truth as it is contained in the Bible.

No true christian will ever get to heaven but we will be changed if alive and the dead in Christ will rule with Christ in the kingdom of God starting in the Millennium.

Take time to click through the link in my signature:wave: Wisdom for Living and read after death, what next?

Two questions:

Is Linear Time a factor after death?

And, where does Luke 23:43 fit into your belief?

Myself, I do not think we go someplace and wait 10's, hundreds, or in some cases 1000's of years for the return of Christ, once we die...

But I also believe that when we die, as Christians, we are with the Lord instantly... :)

I guess my questions above point to that...
 
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SayaOtonashi

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Technically sheol is hell for only unbelievers go there. It's not longer as both believers and non believer for Jesus went there to save and preach his word. People before believe in Jesus were both went in the place of Sheol. Now this is know as the present hell for non believer go to Sheol and than the final hell the lake of fire. So Sheol is the present hell." And until the final judegement they will be cast in the lake of fire.

Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave | Berean Bible Society
 
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Two questions:

Is Linear Time a factor after death?

And, where does Luke 23:43 fit into your belief?

Myself, I do not think we go someplace and wait 10's, hundreds, or in some cases 1000's of years for the return of Christ, once we die...

But I also believe that when we die, as Christians, we are with the Lord instantly... :)

I guess my questions above point to that...

I agree,

Absent from the body, present with the Lord.

Where is the Lord?

Of course, the body remains in the grave until the ressurection.
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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I know many of you will take a swipe at my statement but I can't but tell you the truth as it is contained in the Bible.

No true christian will ever get to heaven but we will be changed if alive and the dead in Christ will rule with Christ in the kingdom of God starting in the Millennium.

if there is a heaven, then it is outside of time, so our time dosn't matter. i don't believe in a millennium. i think that is intertestimental garbage. there might be a hell, but if there is then it is unjust and immoral, and shouldn't exist.
 
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ZoneChaos

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i don't believe in a millennium.

Why not, given the verses in Revelation that speak of it?

i think that is intertestimental garbage.

how is is intertestamental if if is written about and comes after the intertestamental period?

there might be a hell, but if there is then it is unjust and immoral

Why is it unjust and immoral.. by who's definition of justice and morality?

and shouldn't exist.

Why not?
 
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revrobor

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Two questions:

Is Linear Time a factor after death?

And, where does Luke 23:43 fit into your belief?

Myself, I do not think we go someplace and wait 10's, hundreds, or in some cases 1000's of years for the return of Christ, once we die...

But I also believe that when we die, as Christians, we are with the Lord instantly... :)

I guess my questions above point to that...

Paradise is not Heaven. It is the holding place for the righteous dead. Jesus will be there. Jesus is not just sitting at the right hand of God. That is a term of honor not necessarily a place. Hades is the holding place for the lost dead. Both are awaiting the judgments.
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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Why not, given the verses in Revelation that speak of it?

i dont accept the book of revelation as being part of the word of god.

how is is intertestamental if if is written about and comes after the intertestamental period?

because the jews of that time were thinking up this theory of a millennial kingdom on the earth. it got into the book of revelation a bit later, and revelation was originally two jewish apocalypses merged into one, and then christianised later when christians got a copy of it.
if you read through matthew, very carefully, as i did recently, and try and find any hint of a millennium mentioned, you wont find it. jesus talked a lot about the kingdom of heaven, not a millennial kingdom on the earth. that is a creation invented in the mind of the writer of revelation, whoever that was originally.

Why is it unjust and immoral.. by who's definition of justice and morality?

it's immoral because it is unjust. it is not justified to have eternity of hell, for a few decades of life. although i dont understand it, at the moment i think it is actually malevolent, to have invented such a thing as hell.

Why not?

that's what i think. it's really something for the unorthodox, but this is what i think now, after years of study on the matter.
 
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TheyCallMeDave

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This may raise eyebrows but the truth must be told.

Do you know that no Christians or the heroes of faith are in heaven now? Even the ungodly are not yet in hell.This is not to say there is no heaven and hell.what I'm getting at is that it is after the resurrection of the dead will there be hell for those who are ungodly and the christian as well as heroes of faith inheriting the earth by reigning with Christ for a thousand years.

The often quoted story of Lazarus and the rich man is has for long be wrongly interpreted and explained.

Do you know Lazarus never went to heaven after he died neither did the rich man went to hell fire immediately?

I know many of you will take a swipe at my statement but I can't but tell you the truth as it is contained in the Bible.

No true christian will ever get to heaven but we will be changed if alive and the dead in Christ will rule with Christ in the kingdom of God starting in the Millennium.

Take time to click through the link in my signature:wave: Wisdom for Living and read after death, what next?

If there is no eternal Hell for punishment, then Jesus himself is the worlds biggest Liar and Fraud . Further, there is no ultimate justice for heinous crimes and no objective right from wrong since no act will be morally accounted for in the final analysis. Lastly, the many people who have come back to life who have witnessed some degree of afterlife have all been duped including millions of people whove had a terrifying post-death experience. Surgeons such as Dr. Charles Rawlings who actually tape recorded people dying and coming back to life again (several consecutive times with the same person) who have told of a very frightening experience while still fresh in their minds...was all make believe .

No Sir...i believe that theres a better possibility that you just dont want Hell to exist and/or you dont think youre sins are bad enough to get you there. What do u think ?
 
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ORWildcat

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Why not, given the verses in Revelation that speak of it?



how is is intertestamental if if is written about and comes after the intertestamental period?



Why is it unjust and immoral.. by who's definition of justice and morality?



Why not?
I believe Revelation is an apocalyptic book and cannot be taken literal. 1,000 years is apocalyptic language for "forever" Christ cannot come to back to reign 1,000 years when he is already reigning here on earth. After Christ ascended to heaven He was placed at the right Hand Of God to rule over ALL things. Do you not think Christ was in on the destruction of Israel in A.D. 70? for Israel's rejection of the messiah? He warned them years before. What about the churches in asia minor who the Lord said to them that He would take away there lampstand s if they continued down the paths they were on in Revelation? Do you not think the Lord was behind judging those churches where to now those churches in ancient Asia Minor are now and have been for years islamic strongholds? Just because we still have evil in this world, doesn't mean the Lord isn't reigning from above, of course he is. Evil is now having its day, although the Lord does intervene, but it will not come to full fruition until when He returns. Jesus Christ is in full control of history. I think people really misconstrue Revelation by taking it literal. It's not literal, it's apocalyptical, just like the 7 year tribulation is. Just my beliefs and my opinions, and i am still learning. It has really set me free, though. I once did believe dispensationalism, but i have come to find out is left wanting. It leaves people with a false hope of rapture and always expecting Jesus to come back and rescue is and leaves people disappointed in the end. I believe the Lord will come back, but when He does there will be no Millenium, nor tribulation but then He will take the veil off of what is this present day earth and it will be a newly restored earth and we will have have bodies like his, minus divinity of course. This will all happen in a split second. Satan has already been judged, guys. He was defeated on the cross. No need for Christ to re-defeat him. These are all just my personal beliefs, btw.
 
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LostMarbels

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I believe Revelation is an apocalyptic book and cannot be taken literal. 1,000 years is apocalyptic language for "forever" Christ cannot come to back to reign 1,000 years when he is already reigning here on earth. After Christ ascended to heaven He was placed at the right Hand Of God to rule over ALL things. Do you not think Christ was in on the destruction of Israel in A.D. 70? for Israel's rejection of the messiah? He warned them years before. What about the churches in asia minor who the Lord said to them that He would take away there lampstand s if they continued down the paths they were on in Revelation? Do you not think the Lord was behind judging those churches where to now those churches in ancient Asia Minor are now and have been for years islamic strongholds? Just because we still have evil in this world, doesn't mean the Lord isn't reigning from above, of course he is. Evil is now having its day, although the Lord does intervene, but it will not come to full fruition until when He returns. Jesus Christ is in full control of history. I think people really misconstrue Revelation by taking it literal. It's not literal, it's apocalyptical, just like the 7 year tribulation is. Just my beliefs and my opinions, and i am still learning. It has really set me free, though. I once did believe dispensationalism, but i have come to find out is left wanting. It leaves people with a false hope of rapture and always expecting Jesus to come back and rescue is and leaves people disappointed in the end. I believe the Lord will come back, but when He does there will be no Millenium, nor tribulation but then He will take the veil off of what is this present day earth and it will be a newly restored earth and we will have have bodies like his, minus divinity of course. This will all happen in a split second. Satan has already been judged, guys. He was defeated on the cross. No need for Christ to re-defeat him.

Man, when are you putting your version of the bible on the market? I'd like to check it out.
 
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i dont accept the book of revelation as being part of the word of god.

Based on what?

because the jews of that time were thinking up this theory of a millennial kingdom on the earth. it got into the book of revelation a bit later,[/quoe]

So, you think it was added to Revelation as an addition to what john Wrote?!?

Based on what?

and revelation was originally two jewish apocalypses merged into one, and then christianised later when christians got a copy of it.

Uhuh.. agian, based on what?

if you read through matthew, very carefully, as i did recently, and try and find any hint of a millennium mentioned, you wont find it. jesus talked a lot about the kingdom of heaven, not a millennial kingdom on the earth. that is a creation invented in the mind of the writer of revelation, whoever that was originally.

Who do you think it was, and why do you not think it was John?

it's immoral because it is unjust.

Why is it unjust?

it is not justified to have eternity of hell, for a few decades of life.

You are correct, and Hell is not a punishment for a few years of life...

although i dont understand it, at the moment i think it is actually malevolent, to have invented such a thing as hell.

What would you call a eternal place without the presence of God?

that's what i think. it's really something for the unorthodox, but this is what i think now, after years of study on the matter.

You may want to check yourself, before you wreck yourself.

It is clear to me, personally, that your beliefs are not of God, now were you given these understanding by Him.. they are at best your own understanding...
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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Based on what?

because the jews of that time were thinking up this theory of a millennial kingdom on the earth. it got into the book of revelation a bit later,[/quoe]

So, you think it was added to Revelation as an addition to what john Wrote?!?

i think revelation started out as two anti-roman jewish apocalypses. they were composed just after 70 ad. i don't believe that john was the apostle, but was someone called john the presbeter, an elder in a messianic type of church. i think he was opposed to the pauline doctrines. but i have seen the revelation broken down into its original form, and it has been christianised. check out the jewish encyclopaedia.
i realised there was something wrong with the book, and so i continued to do research, and have gone as far as i can now. there is nothing more in history to discover.
it would take a lot of explaining, why i have come to this conclusion. i started a thread on this subject a while ago, but it's not going to be popular with christians, as it's been included in the bible.
it's not my job to convert anyone, and that's probably impossible. it's a personal revelation, about the truth.

Who do you think it was, and why do you not think it was John?

i think it was composed by a group of non christian jews. it took a long time to construct, and it is drawn from all the apocalyptic books of the OT. the knowledge that it was not john the apostle goes back a long time, back to the church fathers. that info is out there on the net. john the presbeter was the person on patmos who sent the letters out to the churches, along with the apocalypse. if this work had been composed in recent times, the work would be analysed and picked apart for what it is. it is just because it goes back to 70 ad, that people accept it without any critical thought about it, and without really reading all of it, to see what it is really saying.

Why is it unjust?

i think hell is unjust, because the punishment does not fit the crime.

What would you call a eternal place without the presence of God?

that is what i think hell might be about. the fire and all that might be a metaphor for something else.. separation from God, the source of life. perhaps it is about existing and being dead spiritually at the same time. perhaps God is unable to destroy people completely after death.

You may want to check yourself, before you wreck yourself.

It is clear to me, personally, that your beliefs are not of God, now were you given these understanding by Him.. they are at best your own understanding...

i think that my beliefs have been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit, and is not of anything evil. i think that God has decided 'enough already' and has revealed to me the truth about things which i have been studying for many years. if it was the case that i am wrong, then i would no longer have any fellowship with the Holy Spirit, and that is not the case. John the presbeter's nasty threat in revelation (if he wrote that bit) is just that, part of the bigger outline, revealing his character, as a very nasty and angry and hateful individual, who absolutely hated the human race, and especially the romans, and had not an ounce of the love of Christ.
 
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xxxxxxtra

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You are wrong again.. All of the saints that have gone before us are with the Lord.. Right up until Christ's resurrection they were in hades which is refered to the bossom of abraham.. Atleast the good side is.. Thecunsaved are still in haydes awaiting the great white throne judgment... Then they will be cast into hell.
Honestly, you do know that salvation has nothing to do with what ypu know.. Right? I mean i have read a few of your threads and wow are you misguided.. I recommend that you take everything you hear or have been told and review it in light of scripture.. If you review what i told you. You will find in scripture the words, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".. So where is the Lord? Sitting at the right hand of All Power..
 
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