Defending a religious person...

FrenchyBearpaw

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A lot of time atheists like to tell Christians what they believe in an amateur attempt to be able to "invalidate" our religion through strawman tactics.

I'd just stop paying attention to it.

In a debate people must be allowed to have some liberty in terminology because the fact of the matter is that even official dictionaries recognize the diversity in usage of words.

A lot of time atheists are former Christians, and we know quite well what your religion teaches, which would be the exact opposite of a straw man tactic. In fact, it is my opinion that most atheists know substantially more than your average theist, which is the impetus for leaving in the first place.

Liberty in terminology is one thing. Deliberately being evasive and using semantics to deliberately avoid addressing a question is worthy of contempt.
 
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variant

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Alright Christians someone translate how this:

1) I don't have a religion
2) No man "lacks faith." God gives every man a measure of faith.
3) What you do with it, or don't do with it, is not really something I'm capable of even perceiving.
4) I SURELY wouldn't want to sit so high that this question was really up to me to decide.
5) I've got enough on my plate doing the right things with what God has given me, and making it past His throne of judgment myself.

answers this question:

So, what happens to me based upon your religion if I lack faith?

Specifically I would like to know

What your religion teaches on the subject of what happens to people who lack faith.
 
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S

seeking Christ

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In a debate if you are going to use non-standard definitions for terms you should alert the other person.

I did. You threw a hissy fit. Sorry, can't help ya.

SC's insisted on non-standard English when I used it often (at which point he should give me the liberty to use common terms if I so choose) specifically for obfuscation it seems to me.

Key words there - it seemed to you. Pointing that out once to raise my attention to it is fair. From there not taking my response at face value is inexcusable.

The argument is that I do not understand the words and that he did, and that he couldn't simply be expected to explain them to me.

False, you simply refused to learn, and insisted I "didn't answer." That's playing games. If you don't want to learn that's fine, but you can't have it both ways.

These sort of exchanges are more than just asking for some liberty in terminology, he is essentially asking me to completely adopt his view of things without explaining it.

There is none of this expecting you to "completely adopt my view of things." You are unwilling to communicate, on a talk forum. You ask for clarification and when I do so, you object and get all huffy. I think it would be easier to find out what a person has to say, you'd rather not. Seems strange to me, but ok.
 
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variant

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I did. You threw a hissy fit. Sorry, can't help ya

False, you simply refused to learn, and insisted I "didn't answer." That's playing games. If you don't want to learn that's fine, but you can't have it both ways.

OK, point to anywhere you like in this thread where you apropriately defined any of the terms you objected to.

reference said:
Religion
God
God Concept
Believe
Super Human
Sense
Supernatural

:waits with bated breath:
 
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seeking Christ

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Specifically I would like to know

What your religion teaches on the subject of what happens to people who lack faith.

How can you read my answer and not realize that we simply aren't told? I told you the extent of what can be known, and I did so quite concisely. The Roman Catholic Catechism addresses that, and while IMHO they pretend to know all sorts of stuff they really don't, they STILL bottom line with an "Idunno."

All Judgment is given unto the Son.

This is why Biblical Christianity stresses a relationship with Jesus.
 
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variant

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How can you read my answer and not realize that we simply aren't told? I told you the extent of what can be known, and I did so quite concisely. The Roman Catholic Catechism addresses that, and while IMHO they pretend to know all sorts of stuff they really don't, they STILL bottom line with an "Idunno."

All Judgment is given unto the Son.

This is why Biblical Christianity stresses a relationship with Jesus.

Well see were getting there.

Why shouldn't I be an atheist then?
 
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seeking Christ

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OK, point to anywhere you like in this thread where you apropriately defined any of the terms you objected to.

Religion - I defined what it isn't
God - didn't scratch the surface, neither is that a fair question here
God Concept - again, spoke to it in the negative, which is a perfectly valid form of theology. If you know what something isn't, you gain a clearer understanding of what it is. Often that is the best possible way of communicating Spiritual things.
Believe - we haven't really begun to develop that, but I pointed out it has sacred use that is not the same as the secular use.
Super Human - we covered that. Catherineanne made the appropriate super hero analogy.
Sense - you raised that one, not me. I've already told you I see no different meaning of the word, nor use for it in sacred context.
Supernatural - inappropriate. Spiritual is better for this discussion.

:waits with bated breath:

Notice that the above is filled out with NO NEW INFO presented, all of that is in the thread already.
 
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variant

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Notice that the above is filled out with NO NEW INFO presented, all of that is in the thread already.

It's your responsibility to define the terms you disagree with.

You did not. You just object to just about every religious term I use and act like it's a mystery that you are privy to and I am not.

Lead with information if you are having trouble communicating.
 
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seeking Christ

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Well see were getting there.

I don't see why that took a day and a half :confused: With apologies to the rest of the forum that had to see this train wreck.

Why shouldn't I be an atheist then?

^_^

What's the purpose of this thread?

Why are you trying to goad me into apologetics? Despite that some campaign for its return, its not happening.

I think its very important that each person makes up their own mind on such things. The founding Fathers of this Country had it right in my opinion: all this stuff is a matter of private conscience, if I remember their phrase correctly. Most people are hesitant to discuss such things. Even on this website, some will both ask and attack, and never divulge their own opinion.

There were certain things I had to know before I could or would believe. I know what I did to pursue God on the matter(s), and I can look back and see how that lined up to what the Bible teaches. I also know that God answered me, and did so in overwhelming fashion. If anyone wants to know how to approach God on their own to get their own answers, I could help point that person in the right direction, but that is not going to be a nice formula of step 1 step 2 step 3 there ya have it.

Now go ahead and accuse me of not addressing your question ^_^ I'm waiting :cool1:
 
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It's your responsibility to define the terms you disagree with.

You did not. You just object to just about every religious term I use and act like it's a mystery that you are privy to and I am not.

Sorry but any such portrayal in this format is simply you perception. In the face of your protests, I wasn't about to forge ahead. if you want sense, act sensibly.
 
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By not responding I have no way of knowing what you are referring to

Sorry but the words are clear. Don't be like like Bill Clinton: "it depends what your definition of 'is' is."

Sometimes we have to step out and lay ourselves bare, open to ridicule

I've done quite enough of that, and polluted what may otherwise have been a good thread while trying to reason with unreasonableness.
 
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What's the purpose of this thread?

The thread is about how people are sometimes mean to religious folks for seemingly no reason, and asks if anyone ever defends those who are religious.

Why are you trying to goad me into apologetics? Despite that some campaign for its return, its not happening.

I'm discussing your beliefs and others like them which I often harshly question, you were 'correcting' me on a specific point and refused to elaborate.

Now go ahead and accuse me of not addressing your question I'm waiting

You didn't address the question.

If you feel that there aren't serious repercussions for my complete disagreement with your religion then you do not fall into the type of religious person I usually criticize.

A lot of how non-believers react to the religious has to do with our experience with them.
 
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Sorry but any such portrayal in this format is simply you perception. In the face of your protests, I wasn't about to forge ahead. if you want sense, act sensibly.

You actually on several occasions said I can not possibly understand you and have taken no steps to elaborate on these terms except to rebuke me for using them incorrectly.

Of course I am going to object strongly.
 
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FrenchyBearpaw

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Sorry but the words are clear. Don't be like like Bill Clinton: "it depends what your definition of 'is' is."



I've done quite enough of that, and polluted what may otherwise have been a good thread while trying to reason with unreasonableness.

So what happens to one who doesn't have a relationship with Jesus?
 
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If you feel that there aren't serious repercussions for my complete disagreement with your religion then you do not fall into the type of religious person I usually criticize.

Does that make me special? I won't opine on "serious repercussions" or not. If what you really mean to say is you expect any and every Christian to shout at you 'turn or burn,' I point out the early Church never did that so I see no reason to. At the same time I can't really be sure what they DID do, due to problems like written records being destroyed by Romans and etc.

Even so I can (and have) learn *a little something* about it, including the fact that it doesn't seem to fit into your mold? Again, that's not my fault.
 
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Sorry but the words are clear. Don't be like like Bill Clinton: "it depends what your definition of 'is' is."



I've done quite enough of that, and polluted what may otherwise have been a good thread while trying to reason with unreasonableness.

I asked you to clarify what you saw and the situation in which you have 'seen' a demon. Your answer first up was that it was to sensitive for these horrible folk here abouts, now you tell the words are 'clear' and to not be like Bill Clinton?
The word Demon is clear, but your definition of that is not and neither is your explaination of the events surrounding it, as they are both non-existent, meaning.....YOU HAVE SAID NOTHING.
Lets pollute things no further by cutting my dialogue with you, you are a waste of time. Frenchy Bear Paw beat me to the assessment of your previous 'tag' by the way. That arrogance is hard to hide.
 
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