9/11 Science Club: Mass Does Not Accelerate as it Accumulates, It Can Only Slow Down

[Btodd]

OK, how long did the collapse take and how long would a free fall from the top of the towers last? Lets see your numbers and your source.

I'll look for the hard numbers, but they're also difficult to come by...the final portion of the collapses is obscured by the dust cloud, so you can't actually see when the last bit of the building hits ground zero. What I referred to earlier is that there is debris falling below the collapse zone, and falling faster than the collapse zone. That alone refutes the 'at free fall' claim, or else the debris is falling faster than free fall.


Btodd

 

[seeking Christ]

OK, how long did the collapse take and how long would a free fall from the top of the towers last? Lets see your numbers and your source.

Already been shown. Actual time, 10 seconds. Freefall speed, 8 seconds.

 

[Btodd]

and just what sort of 'engineer' are you?


BTW a large number of high power real engineers aren't buying the official myth.

I'm not one; I merely refer to those who are, and actual scientific papers that have been written on the issue. I assume your second statement is referring to the the sham organization that is AE911Truth, who haven't produced any scientific papers for peer-review at all. Their main weapon for convincing not only the general public, but the scientific community, is a petition. A petition that includes such bogus expert titles as 'landscape architect' and 'software engineer'. That's a joke, given the subject matter.


Btodd

 

[GarfieldJL]

Nice try, but even the WikiLeaks documents noted these are "remnants", not actual weapons. Yellowcake is not a WMD by itself. Leftovers and contaminated sites are not the rationale for invasion. That's why the administration made little effort to publicize them.

Now you are arguing semantics...

Furthermore, you are aware that Yellowcake is Uranium right? Grind it up into a fine dust and have a bomb detonate with the contents released over a large area and congratulations you have a "dirty bomb" which would classify as a WMD and a terror weapon...

 

[samhall]

I'll look for the hard numbers, but they're also difficult to come by...................

OK, how long did the collapse take and how long would a free fall from the top of the towers last? Lets see your numbers and your source.

Asked this before & you dodged.

BTW, don't know would have at least been an honest answer.

 

[samhall]

I'm not one; ....................

Figured that. LMAO

I will go with the real engineers who have done the math & hence don't share your touching trust in the 911 Official Version.

 

[true2theword]

The Twin Towers did not collapse at free fall speed, no matter how many times some people repeat it. There is debris well below the point of collapse, and it is falling faster than the collapse itself. Watch the videos.

And the other phrase that bugs me is, 'into its own footprint'. Where else is it supposed to collapse? Gravity works in one direction. But the debris also damaged several buildings around it, so that phrase is quite misleading.


Btodd

Its to bad it bugs you, this is why people pay huge amounts of money to bring buildings down straight and landing in their own footprint, its not somthing that NATURALLY CAN BE EXPECTED, during a building collapes

like any building subject to failure, there is an art to making a building fail equalaterally and in perfect unison, thats what demolision experts strive for, and imagine the COINSIDENCES of three buildings all failing in this same UN NORMAL fashion, begs to say what are the odds of that happening?

 

[true2theword]

You haven't studied any kind of engineering, have you? Namely, the difference between static loads and dynamic loads.




Really? Why should the building have collapsed this way? You do know, doin't you, that one plane crashed 15 floors below the top of the building and the other crashed almost 30 floors below the top. Why would only 3-4 floors collapse?

-Dan.

I know that people hire company's to make buildings fall unilaterally and equally that it is not what normally happens when a building fails.

thats because the failures happen at the weakest point, to make every support the weakest point at the same time is what demolishion experts do, to have the building fail equally each floor after the next all the way down is mathmatically impossible without the introduction of some other agent

 

[true2theword]

I honestly can't believe we're even still discussing this. 95% of us moved on when we studied the evidence and concluded that it added up. 5% of us, however, are still stuck in the past, clinging onto conspiracy theories without any evidence that hasn't been debunked millions of times over.

Meh, I guess we need variation in our species to continue the evolution process. That's the only possible way I can reconcile the fact there are people who believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories with the real world.

well considering that there is evidence to support a foreknowledge and plan and much of what you consider debunking is just a bunch of crap,

and since as a Christian I don't believe in evolution but believe that the bible was true and satan and his fallen angels are here on planet earth conspiring to do evil, and having the abilities to enter humans and cause them to do their will, I tend to believe conspiracies do happen

especially after what a jury and a judge concluded regarding the assasination of Martin Luther King Jr.
seems that whole conspiracy regarding CIA, FBI, Memphis Police and military agents all were found guilty in partaking in the death of MLK

so excuse me if your to dull to except corruption exist at very high levels of government, to point of killing its own citzens, and even those the people have elected

 

[iluvatar5150]

I know that people hire company's to make buildings fall unilaterally and equally that it is not what normally happens when a building fails.

IOW, you don't know what you're talking about. You just know that somebody gets paid to do something similar sometimes.

thats because the failures happen at the weakest point, to make every support the weakest point at the same time is what demolishion experts do, to have the building fail equally each floor after the next all the way down is mathmatically impossible without the introduction of some other agent

Can you show us how it's mathematically impossible?

First of all, the buildings did NOT "fall within their own footprint." You can see from the videos that debris is being ejected all around the area. Several other neighboring buildings suffered serious damage or were destroyed.

Second (and this is the one that I suspect you don't understand), what would have provided the lateral force to make it topple over? In order to move sideways like that, something has to push it. What would have done that?

-Dan.

 

[cow451]

Now you are arguing semantics...

Furthermore, you are aware that Yellowcake is Uranium right? Grind it up into a fine dust and have a bomb detonate with the contents released over a large area and congratulations you have a "dirty bomb" which would classify as a WMD and a terror weapon...

Yellow cake alone can be combined with an explosive to create a small "dirty Bomb". That is not the WMD that we were lead to believe existed as in large capacity chemical weapons and delivery systems. The reason you haven't seen "Yellow Cake Bombs" is that conventional explosives are simpler and, therefore, do much more damage. WMD's aren't worth much without delivery systems.

 

[true2theword]

IOW, you don't know what you're talking about. You just know that somebody gets paid to do something similar sometimes.



Can you show us how it's mathematically impossible?

First of all, the buildings did NOT "fall within their own footprint." You can see from the videos that debris is being ejected all around the area. Several other neighboring buildings suffered serious damage or were destroyed.

Second (and this is the one that I suspect you don't understand), what would have provided the lateral force to make it topple over? In order to move sideways like that, something has to push it. What would have done that?

-Dan.

you would not need lateral force all that is needed is any one side of structural support to give way in just the slightest difference, if any one floor was a little stronger at any one point this accordian style cave in would have not continued

make a popcycle stick tower and add just a couple of extra popcycle sticks to one side, then drop a bowling ball directly on top of your tower and you will see what I'm talking about

equalateral failure is the only possible way you will see what everyone saw on 911, and that is just completely not possible

 

[samhall]

.........................
First of all, the buildings did NOT "fall within their own footprint." You can see from the videos that debris is being ejected all around the area. Several other neighboring buildings suffered serious damage or were destroyed.

............................

Yeppers in a manner similar to the typical high rise demolition.

BTW the damage to the fascade of adjoining buildings was rather minor.

 

[cow451]

Yeppers in a manner similar to the typical high rise demolition.

BTW the damage to the fascade of adjoining buildings was rather minor.

Like this ?

 

[Btodd]

OK, how long did the collapse take and how long would a free fall from the top of the towers last? Lets see your numbers and your source.

Asked this before & you dodged.

BTW, don't know would have at least been an honest answer.

The following comes from The Journal of Engineering Mechanics, ASCE:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CEMQxQEwAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache%3AxbbLBhnzPqwJ%3Awww.civil.northwestern.edu%2Fpeople%2Fbazant%2FPDFs%2FPapers%2F00%252520WTC%252520Collapse%252520-%252520What%252520Did%252520%2526%252520Did%252520Not%252520Cause%252520It.pdf%2B%26hl%3Den%26gl%3Dus%26pid%3Dbl%26srcid%3DADGEESiST2H9Zr89PlhIwHFIeVWuCIjC6QdRBFWzyy0DxgziFFhQg8uWfy-s5_BumedDn6Ist8guwXj6mBjaqsN71PEm_k8Im8NSpYWaTnkoFyRpPaxzs3gElUj2w1a-6qw1_vtfOUZG%26sig%3DAHIEtbQonLr-S4hW9Bj_elLVIjehkUGr4Q&ei=wbAGUbKFNKuu2gW494FY&usg=AFQjCNEflV8JpKmhQx56pr0amxPXphcUPg&sig2=dd2cetSMv_mQedrH7gPGHQ&bvm=bv.41524429,d.b2I

"These durations match reasonably well the durations of the crush-down phase calculated from Eq. (2), which are 12.81 s and 10.47 s for the North and South towers, under the assumption that the reduction factor applied to Fb is 2/3. If the full uncertainty range, 2 [0.5, 0.8], is considered, the calculated mean durations are 12.82 s and 10.49 s, respectively. This uncertainty is shown by error bars in Fig. 8.

Now note that these durations are, on the average, 65.5% and 47.3% longer than those of a free fall of the upper part of each tower, which are 7.74 s for the North Tower and 7.11 s for the South Tower. So, the seismic record, too, appears to contradict the hypothesis of progressive
demolition by timed explosives."

Figured that. LMAO

I will go with the real engineers who have done the math & hence don't share your touching trust in the 911 Official Version.

Please cite any scientific paper on the collapses that your 'real engineers' published in a peer-reviewed engineering journal, then.

Petitions are of little value, particularly when they ask a software engineer to raise his hand if he disbelieves a particular explanation about structural engineering.


Btodd

 

[Btodd]

Its to bad it bugs you, this is why people pay huge amounts of money to bring buildings down straight and landing in their own footprint, its not somthing that NATURALLY CAN BE EXPECTED, during a building collapes

like any building subject to failure, there is an art to making a building fail equalaterally and in perfect unison, thats what demolision experts strive for, and imagine the COINSIDENCES of three buildings all failing in this same UN NORMAL fashion, begs to say what are the odds of that happening?

This is from the same peer-reviewed paper I cited above, from the Journal of Engineering Mechanics, ASCE:

"Another previously refuted hypothesis of the LAY CRITICS (capitalization mine ) is that, without explosives, the towers would have had to topple like a tree, pivoting about the base (Baˇzant and Zhou 2002) (Fig. 6b or c). This hypothesis was allegedly supported by the observed tilt of the upper part of tower at the beginning of collapse (Fig. 6a). However, rotation about a point at the base of the upper part (Fig. 6c) would cause a horizontal reaction approximately 10.3× greater than the horizontal shear capacity of the story, and the shear capacity must have been exceeded already at the tilt of only 2.8 (Baˇzant and Zhou 2002). Thereafter, the top part must have been rotating essentially about its centroid, which must have been falling almost vertically. The rotation rate must have decreased during the collapse as further stationary mass accreted to the moving block. So, it is no surprise at all that the towers collapsed essentially on their
footprint. Gravity alone must have caused just that (Baˇzant and Zhou 2002)."

If you'll forgive me, I'm going to take the word of structural engineers who produce real scientific papers and introduce them to peer-reviewed journals, rather than trust your personal incredulity that it should have toppled over.


Btodd

 

[TheQuietRiot]

you would not need lateral force all that is needed is any one side of structural support to give way in just the slightest difference, if any one floor was a little stronger at any one point this accordian style cave in would have not continued

make a popcycle stick tower and add just a couple of extra popcycle sticks to one side, then drop a bowling ball directly on top of your tower and you will see what I'm talking about

equalateral failure is the only possible way you will see what everyone saw on 911, and that is just completely not possible

Its actually hilarious that you compared the collapse of either of the twin towers to a tower made from popsicle sticks and expect people here to take you seriously.

 

[cow451]

make a popcycle stick tower and add just a couple of extra popcycle sticks to one side, then drop a bowling ball directly on top of your tower and you will see what I'm talking about

I hadn't heard the "Bowling Ball Theory" before.

 

[Btodd]

make a popcycle stick tower and add just a couple of extra popcycle sticks to one side, then drop a bowling ball directly on top of your tower and you will see what I'm talking about

Better yet, you do it...then write up a paper on it and send it to The Journal of Popsicle Stick Mechanics™ for peer-review.


Btodd

 

[true2theword]

Its actually hilarious that you compared the collapse of either of the twin towers to a tower made from popsicle sticks and expect people here to take you seriously.

actually I was showing that even using much weaker construction materials and dropping an astronomically much heavier weight than what the towers would have dealt with......the results would clearly show that even in the most simplest models the bowling ball would not continue straight down but would go off to which ever side was just the slightest bit weaker

but that was not the case on 911, we see equalateral universal failure at precise and precision timing, this is mathmatically impossible for a natural chaotic structure failure where fires are not in any way shape or form evenly distributed on the building