9/11 Science Club: Mass Does Not Accelerate as it Accumulates, It Can Only Slow Down

Btodd

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Wow, so now ManFromUncle has posted something that almost no Truthers try to bring up any more...the old claim that 'some of the hijackers are still alive'.

This is one of the most irritating things about the Truth movement. It doesn't matter how many times it gets refuted, they'll just wait a little while and reintroduce the whole meme again. I'm sure some of them are after the Truth, but many of them seem willing to throw anything out there to try to produce doubt, even when it's false or contradicts the other thing they threw out before.

And without even going into the details of why it's false, it only takes a few seconds of thought to realize how stupid it would be of the government to go to all this supposed trouble of planting bombs in the buildings, faking plane crashes, or whatever else this sinister plot is supposed to entail...yet not have the common sense that naming a living person as a dead hijacker wouldn't get noticed and foil the whole plot.

On one hand, it's the most (unnecessarily) complicated, dastardly plan ever concocted, and on the other...it's foiled by errors like forgetting to make sure the fake hijacker you name is not living. :doh:


Btodd
 
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Btodd

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I see that. It would be nice to see some scale. That looks more like the size of a Cessna than a 767. It would also be nice to see scale of the wingspan, as well as the tail.

You can see a man out on the lawn in that pic for a bit of scale. I seem to remember a pic where the scale of the plane is super-imposed over the impact. I'll see if I can find it.


Btodd
 
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FrenchyBearpaw

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Wow, so now ManFromUncle has posted something that almost no Truthers try to bring up any more...the old claim that 'some of the hijackers are still alive'.

This is one of the most irritating things about the Truth movement. It doesn't matter how many times it gets refuted, they'll just wait a little while and reintroduce the whole meme again. I'm sure some of them are after the Truth, but many of them seem willing to throw anything out there to try to produce doubt, even when it's false or contradicts the other thing they threw out before.

And without even going into the details of why it's false, it only takes a few seconds of thought to realize how stupid it would be of the government to go to all this supposed trouble of planting bombs in the buildings, faking plane crashes, or whatever else this sinister plot is supposed to entail...yet not have the common sense that naming a living person as a dead hijacker wouldn't get noticed and foil the whole plot.

On one hand, it's the most (unnecessarily) complicated, dastardly plan ever concocted, and on the other...it's foiled by errors like forgetting to make sure the fake hijacker you name is not living. :doh:


Btodd

Do you at least find it odd that three of the hijacker's passports were found on the sidewalks after the planes hit the Towers?
 
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Skaloop

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You can see a man out on the lawn in that pic for a bit of scale. I seem to remember a pic where the scale of the plane is super-imposed over the impact. I'll see if I can find it.


Btodd

I did a quick take off using the person as scale. Assuming he is 5-6 feet tall (and in mid stride, so possibly showing as slightly shorter), the arrows shown identifying the width of the damage works out to about 100 to 130 feet, as best I can tell (give or take, since I just did a quick job). The wingspan of a 737 like the one that hit the Pentagon? Essentially 125 feet. So it scales out pretty accurately at first blush.
 
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FrenchyBearpaw

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Does that mean they weren't in an operation financed by OBL? I mean, we didn't fight AF's officially recognized Gov't; we broke up AQ training camps and otherwise weakened AQ as much as we could w/o risking our soldier's excessively.

I don't know who financed it? Wouldn't cost too much to rent a room, take Cessna lessons, buy a box cutter and a plane ticket? As for OBL/Tim Osman being the "mastermind" behind this, he didn't publicly take credit for 9/11 for several years, and then we just happened to find a tape with his (I don't recall if it was the young or old looking OBL video) confession in a bombed out house in Jalalabad.
 
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Btodd

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Do you at least find it odd that three of the hijacker's passports were found on the sidewalks after the planes hit the Towers?

I thought that just one was found at the Towers. Yeah, I think it's not what you might expect, but keep in mind that he was at the very front of the plane. His body would have been broken into many pieces and possibly passed through the building before the explosion. If it was in his wallet, it's conceivable.

For people who think it was planted (not saying you said this), it makes even less sense after all that for someone to need to run over to the sidewalk and throw down a fake passport. It didn't tell us anything we couldn't verify from the flight records in the first place...making it a very unnecessary step.

That's my take, anyway.


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GarfieldJL

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Of course they were living in the US, LOL. The leadership of AlQaeda was, at that time, Bin Laden in his sanctuary in Afghanistan. The Taliban were the official Afghan government and willingly hosted Bin Laden.


However, I agree that the Invasion of Iraq was unnecessary and diverted miltary resources from Afghanistan, thereby prolonging US involvement there. The Bush administration allowed popular misconceptions about Iraq being involved in 9/11 to go unchallenged because it helped fuel the campaign for the war.


Congress has abdicated much of it's duties, allowing Presidents too much leeway to wage war. A revisiting of the War Powers Act and similar legislation seems overdue.

Congress gave Bush Authorization to attack Iraq...

Btw, wikileaks actually did provide some useful information:

But WikiLeaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction.
An initial glance at the WikiLeaks war logs doesn’t reveal evidence of some massive WMD program by the Saddam Hussein regime — the Bush administration’s most (in)famous rationale for invading Iraq. But chemical weapons, especially, did not vanish from the Iraqi battlefield. Remnants of Saddam’s toxic arsenal, largely destroyed after the Gulf War, remained. Jihadists, insurgents and foreign (possibly Iranian) agitators turned to these stockpiles during the Iraq conflict — and may have brewed up their own deadly agents.
In August 2004, for instance, American forces surreptitiously purchased what they believed to be containers of liquid sulfur mustard, a toxic “blister agent” used as a chemical weapon since World War I. The troops tested the liquid, and “reported two positive results for blister.” The chemical was then “triple-sealed and transported to a secure site” outside their base.
Three months later, in northern Iraq, U.S. scouts went to
look in on a “chemical weapons” complex. “One of the bunkers has been tampered with,” they write. “The integrity of the seal [around the complex] appears intact, but it seems someone is interesting in trying to get into the bunkers.”

WikiLeaks Show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq - With Surprising Results | Danger Room | Wired.com

Also from the Left-Wing MSNBC...
The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" — the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.

U.S. removes 'yellowcake' from Iraq - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq | NBC News

The thing is that the Bush Administration liked to keep these things quiet rather than brag all over the airwaves and endanger the lives of our servicemen and women, unlike what the Obama Administration did to the members of Seal Team 6.
 
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FrenchyBearpaw

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I thought that just one was found at the Towers. Yeah, I think it's not what you might expect, but keep in mind that he was at the very front of the plane. His body would have been broken into many pieces and possibly passed through the building before the explosion. If it was in his wallet, it's conceivable.

For people who think it was planted (not saying you said this), it makes even less sense after all that for someone to need to run over to the sidewalk and throw down a fake passport. It didn't tell us anything we couldn't verify from the flight records in the first place...making it a very unnecessary step.

That's my take, anyway.


Btodd

You are correct, just one passport in NY, two were found in PA (UA93).
 
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For people who think it was planted (not saying you said this), it makes even less sense after all that for someone to need to run over to the sidewalk and throw down a fake passport.

Were they fake, or real? It makes perfect sense to put the real ones there. The owners no longer need them, you know who they are, and there are other sleeper cells right in the same neighborhood. Terrorism 101 (I never heard about any passports)
 
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Btodd

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Were they fake, or real? It makes perfect sense to put the real ones there. The owners no longer need them, you know who they are, and there are other sleeper cells right in the same neighborhood. Terrorism 101 (I never heard about any passports)

Yeah, I shouldn't have said 'fake passport'. I just meant fake in the sense of not having come from the actual hijacker inside the plane - 'planted'.


Btodd
 
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Btodd

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Here's a link to a very good summary of the evidence for Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, complete with dimensions of the aircraft. It's actually on a conspiracy site, but somebody compiled all this info in a pretty thorough manner.

9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon, page 1

ETA: The downed light poles are another important piece of evidence that we haven't talked about yet.


Btodd
 
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^ ^ This brings up the point I've made, which has merely been sneered at. The pilot stuck the nose of the plane into the Pentagon at ground level, making a PERFECT strike if he didn't bounce along the ground first. How does this compare to the margin of error a commercial pilot enjoys while landing?

I actually think the terrorist would've rather hit a little higher. Also interesting is the side of the building hit is where the least amount of damage would be done, but I don't think that necessarily means anything. OBL wouldn't have necessarily known that.

I think the guy in the vid is wrong about the potential to crash the plane into the roof. The angle of attack would either have the plane graze the roof and skim off, not doing so much damage, or be so steep as to likely create a miss.
 
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TheQuietRiot

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^ ^ This brings up the point I've made, which has merely been sneered at. The pilot stuck the nose of the plane into the Pentagon at ground level, making a PERFECT strike if he didn't bounce along the ground first. How does this compare to the margin of error a commercial pilot enjoys while landing?

I actually think the terrorist would've rather hit a little higher. Also interesting is the side of the building hit is where the least amount of damage would be done, but I don't think that necessarily means anything. OBL wouldn't have necessarily known that.

I think the guy in the vid is wrong about the potential to crash the plane into the roof. The angle of attack would either have the plane grave the roof and skim off, not doing so much damage, or be so steep as to likely create a miss.

You think a 300,000+ pound plane travelling at 450mph is going to skim off a concrete roof?
 
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TheQuietRiot

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And still, nobody who doubts the official story of what happened to Flight 77 has actually presented any kind of alternative to what happened to that particular aircraft and all lives aboard.

Because if you insist of imply that it didn't strike the Pentagon that day then you must either say, we have no idea what happened to it or present your alternative theory.
 
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