Is Authority to serve God important to have

[fatboys]

When ever God revealed truths to his children on earth, he always revealed these truths to those he called to be prophets. Prophet were not there to foretell future events, but to guide, direct and teach the people the ways of God. These men always held this permission through what is called the priesthood. Are there examples found in the Bible that teaches that authority comes from reading scriptures, and therefore can administer as the prophets and apostles did of old. If there are not examples, how and where, other than catholics, claim to gain this authority?

 

[Ran77]

When ever God revealed truths to his children on earth, he always revealed these truths to those he called to be prophets. Prophet were not there to foretell future events, but to guide, direct and teach the people the ways of God. These men always held this permission through what is called the priesthood. Are there examples found in the Bible that teaches that authority comes from reading scriptures, and therefore can administer as the prophets and apostles did of old. If there are not examples, how and where, other than catholics, claim to gain this authority?

Are you kidding? It doesn't work that way anymore. Even though God is eternal and unchanging - that has changed. Along with such notions that God do nothing less He reveal it through his prophets. That has changed too.

Really, Dude. You need to get with the times.

 

[Enkil]

When ever God revealed truths to his children on earth, he always revealed these truths to those he called to be prophets. Prophet were not there to foretell future events, but to guide, direct and teach the people the ways of God. These men always held this permission through what is called the priesthood. Are there examples found in the Bible that teaches that authority comes from reading scriptures, and therefore can administer as the prophets and apostles did of old. If there are not examples, how and where, other than catholics, claim to gain this authority?

Priests in the Old Testament were limited to the Levites, and consequently not every Prophet is a Priest in the Old Testament.

Daniel was of the tribe of Judah (Dan 1:6). Isaiah's father was Amoz, whom the Jews held was the brother of King Amaziah of Judah. Elijah was of the inhabitants of Gilead, either of the tribe of Gad or of Manasseh, but it is not mentioned if he is a native of either tribe, and he is never called a Priest of the Levites. Moses and Abraham are obvious examples, and there are many more. Deborah was a Prophetess and Judge over Israel, though her tribe is not mentioned. Anna was a Prophetess of the tribe of Aser. I note these two latter Prophetesses since Mormonism does not allow the Priesthood to women.

The Priesthood system of the Old Testament was abolished with Christ's crucifixion. The purpose of Priests was to offer sacrifices and to lead the people in prayer. They were the "mediators" between God and man. The High Priest could enter the Holy of Holies and sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat. Since Christ as our High Priest has done this with His own blood, there is no longer any need for the OT Priests.

Heb 7:26-27 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; (27) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Furthermore, Christ's Priesthood is never ending, and is not handed off to others.

Heb 7:11-24 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? (12) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (13) For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. (14) For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. (15) And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, (16) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. (17) For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. (18) For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (19) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. (20) And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (21) (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec (22) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. (23) And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: (24) But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Regarding the last verse, "hath an unchangeable priesthood," or as the margin reads: "not passing from one to another, intransmissible." No one can inherit Christ's Priesthood after the order of Melchisedec, as it is a special promise to the Messiah, who shall never die.

Consequently, the Priesthood system of the Old Testament is abolished, as it is now Christ who is our High Priest and mediates for us. This abolishment also opens the way up for us, who no longer need the Priests to be reconciled with God. Because we have Christ as our Savior, all Christians are made Priests and Kings in the sight of God (Rev 1:6; Rev 5:10; 1 Pe 2:7-10). This is not through oath, but through faith in God, making us the children of God. As Priests and Kings made righteous through the blood of the lamb, we can enter boldly into the throne room of God and fellowship with Him and request of Him.
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Regarding Prophets and Leadership positions. In the New Testament, having the gift of prophecy is not associated with being a leader in control of the church. In fact, the promise is made that many would have this gift:

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Paul goes into greater detail, giving a list of the gifts of the Spirit, ranging from healing to prophecy to teaching. He does not say that there is only one living Prophet. There are also several prophets mentioned that are not Apostles. Phillip the Evangelist had 4 virgin daughters who were prophets (Acts 21:9). Another Prophet warns Paul that he will be bound by the Romans in the verse right after.

The Mormon obsession of authority, and that same obsession shared by many other world religions, is a foreign concept to the scripture. We have no power to hold any man from God, or to give a priesthood, as all power belongs to our Father who is in heaven. We are saved by God, and God lives within us. Our comforter and teacher is not a man, but is God Himself.

 

[Enkil]

Bump

 

[williamgramsmith]

Enkil

First Christ's Priesthood is of the "Order" of Melchisedek. It's very name, both as an Order and being of Melchisedek makes fully clear it is a priesthood that is given to others.

Second, the original OP wasn't simply about the Levitical priesthood and Prophets, it also mentioned that of the Apostles and Christ's Church in his day.

Third, your idea of a Priesthood of all believers during Christ's time or today as being the "only" priesthood that is supposed to be is a creation 1400 years after Christ was on the earth by Protestants. It is YOUR "priesthood" that is foriegn to the Bible. Anyone that actually reads even the New Testament alone without a religions bias knows very well there was a Priesthood and various offices and authority of it.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches despite their own issues most certainly does mimick much of what Christ himself and his Apostles established. There most certainly was an "official" and "authorized" priesthood.

You confuse the "gifts" of the spirit as being the same as the Priesthood of God. It is not and never has been. Gifts of the spirit is available to all men. In fact, if you read Matthew 18, Mark 9, and Luke 9 carefully you will notice that even the Apostles knew their was a difference between what they had and what just any believer had. Christ however perfected their understanding when he made clear that simply because those other believers had not their authority, was not with the Church, etc., that even they are his because of their faith, and gifts of the spirit are given to anyone with faith. So them also doing miracles in his name is perfectly acceptable to him. In fact, he warned that anyone that offended even these "children", in his eyes it's better they kill themselves if they don't cut off that offending part. These scriptures are a warning also to your kind of people in your acts against Mormons and Mormonism.

It is not a persons ignorance or intelligence that makes a man of Christ, but HIS FAITH!

 

[Enkil]

Enkil

First Christ's Priesthood is of the "Order" of Melchisedek. It's very name, both as an Order and being of Melchisedek makes fully clear it is a priesthood that is given to others.

The name Melchisedek means "King of Righteousness." It is the name of the King of Salem, who was also called the Priest of the Most High God, whom Abraham gave honor to and tithes. He is only mentioned once, and after that nothing more, until Psa 110:4 "The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." When it came to the Levitical Priesthood (Aaronic Priesthood) it was limited to the Levites, and the Jews kept careful records of such things so that all the Priests could be proven to come from that line. IOW, we knew their parents, we knew their children, we knew whence they came and where they went. This is not true of Melchisedek from the Old Testament, who stands utterly alone in the scriptural record, made very much like the Son of God:

Heb 7:1-3 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; (2) To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; (3) Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

We hear no more of Melchisedec in history. He is a total enigma. There was no priesthood that passed down from this King, and we do not know even where it came from or any other details. In this way, Melchisedec was a type of Christ, a Kingly Priesthood that stands alone, given this Priesthood directly and only by God:

Heb 7:14-17 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. (15) And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, (16) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. (17) For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

This Priest-King is also described as being superior to Abraham and to the Levites who came afterwards:

Heb 7:6-10 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. (7) And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. (8) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. (9) And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. (10) For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Jesus is neither ordained by man or "carnal command," nor does He ordain anyone else (like Melchisedec!), but instead stands forever "after the power of an endless life," given this role by the will of God directly.

This Jesus Christ, another Melchisedec, represents a new and final Priest, who offers Himself up once and for all.

Heb 7:26-27 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; (27) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

This cannot be reconciled with the Mormon conception, which has many "High Priests" of the order of Melchisedec. This is a Priesthood that can be applied once and only to Jesus Christ, and nothing in the scripture supports the Mormon abuse of the term.

Second, the original OP wasn't simply about the Levitical priesthood and Prophets,

He claimed "Prophet were not there to foretell future events, but to guide, direct and teach the people the ways of God. These men always held this permission through what is called the priesthood."

This was utterly refuted, which was the entire premise of his post. Without that premise, there is nothing left.

Third, your idea of a Priesthood of all believers during Christ's time or today as being the "only" priesthood that is supposed to be is a creation 1400 years after Christ was on the earth by Protestants. It is YOUR "priesthood" that is foriegn to the Bible. Anyone that actually reads even the New Testament alone without a religions bias knows very well there was a Priesthood and various offices and authority of it.

You do not know what the Priesthood is supposed to be. The duty of the priesthood was to offer gifts and sacrifices for the people (Heb 5:1). The idea being that they were the ones who mediated between God and man, as it was their business to oversee all religious affairs and to offer the sacrifices which covered up the sins of the people.

The Messiah, who offers up Himself, gives a perfect sacrifice that cleanses us from sin (not just covers) once and for all. Hence the reason why Christ is our High Priest, and not any man, and why the Aaronic Priesthood was only a shadow of what was to come.

My references to the scripture were plain. I didn't say anything that they themselves did not indicate. We are a nation of priests... but not after the Old Testament system, but under the system of liberty under Christ Jesus. We are a clean and Holy people, made so by the blood of the lamb (and not of ourselves), and our liberty is such that we are conquerors in the sight of God. No other system of Priesthood is established in the New Testament, even though other roles are most clearly defined. The Catholics pretend they have a Priesthood to offer again and again the Eucharist or to have men confess their sins to. However, there is no evidence that this was always practiced. It is easy to find quotes from the ante-Nicene Fathers who deny the practices of the Catholics as they exist today, well within the very first few centuries.

Of course, as a Mormon, you do not even offer sacrifices or anything of that nature. Nor do you even qualify for any of the Priesthood positions you claim to have, which were heavily defined. If you wish to propose a New Testament Priesthood, you will need to find it within the scriptures. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe it, despite Roman and Mormon beliefs.

You confuse the "gifts" of the spirit as being the same as the Priesthood of God.

My purpose was to demonstrate that there were many prophets, including women Prophets, who are denied the Priesthood by the LDS today, who nevertheless acted as Judges, guides, seers, and teachers of God, without having the Priesthood. The LDS specifically believes that the Prophets of the Old Testament held the Priesthood, amongst a great many other things.

if you read Matthew 18, Mark 9, and Luke 9 carefully you will notice that even the Apostles knew their was a difference between what they had and what just any believer had.

You're going to need to do a little better than that. You should quote the scripture and analyze them to present your point. I won't even bother to address this, though one thing immediately comes to mind, and that is at that point the Holy Spirit had not been given to all believers, which would not come until Christ ascended. In Acts, all believers are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, and thus we find evangelists, teachers, healers and prophets galore. The Apostles were not given an Aaronic Priesthood (which is specifically limited to Levites) or the Melchisedec (otherwise such an extraordinary thing would have been mentioned), they had the Holy Ghost, which sanctified them and empowered them. I would also say that they did not become truly powerful in God until after Christ ascended into heaven. And so we see a cowardly Peter in the Gospels, but then a conquering Peter filled with the Holy Ghost in Acts.

Whatever the case, none of the Mormon fancies are found in the scripture.

These scriptures are a warning also to your kind of people in your acts against Mormons and Mormonism.

I have nothing to fear. I believe in Christ and Him crucified.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

When ever God revealed truths to his children on earth, he always revealed these truths to those he called to be prophets. Prophet were not there to foretell future events, but to guide, direct and teach the people the ways of God. These men always held this permission through what is called the priesthood. Are there examples found in the Bible that teaches that authority comes from reading scriptures, and therefore can administer as the prophets and apostles did of old. If there are not examples, how and where, other than catholics, claim to gain this authority?

I would say that it is our duty to be the physical embodiment of Christ on earth. So consider how much more important that is than simply being "ordained" by an institution.

 

[ananda]

When ever God revealed truths to his children on earth, he always revealed these truths to those he called to be prophets. Prophet were not there to foretell future events, but to guide, direct and teach the people the ways of God.

A "prophet" can only be validated by the accuracy of the fore-telling prophecies he speaks in the Name of YHWH (Deu 18:20-22). A "prophet" who does not speak fore-telling prophecies, or gives prophecies which do not come to pass, is not a genuine & true "prophet" at all.

 

[fatboys]

I have asked many mainstream Christians about priesthood authority. Specifically what priesthood authority prophets had before Moses. Also what laws they lived by.

 

[Enkil]

I have asked many mainstream Christians about priesthood authority. Specifically what priesthood authority prophets had before Moses. Also what laws they lived by.

Look into the Bible, there is no teaching on priesthood authority. You're asking us about something that exists only within Mormon theology, and there is no reason to discuss the topic under the Mormon premise.

 

[fatboys]

There are those who have stated that Melchisedek was a righteous king, Why was this higher priesthood named after him?

 

[ananda]

There are those who have stated that Melchisedek was a righteous king, Why was this higher priesthood named after him?

What makes his priesthood 'higher'?

 

[drstevej]

Prophet were not there to foretell future events, but to guide, direct and teach the people the ways of God.

Not true

Deut. 18:21-22
You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

 

[drstevej]

There are those who have stated that Melchisedek was a righteous king,

The name Melchizedek is a compound Hebrew name (Melek = king; Tsadek = righteousness). Righteous-king was his name.

Who are the "those" you reference?

 

[drstevej]

I have asked many mainstream Christians about priesthood authority. Specifically what priesthood authority prophets had before Moses. Also what laws they lived by.

Prophet and Priest were different offices.

 

[drstevej]

If there are not examples, how and where, other than catholics, claim to gain this authority?

This is an incomplete sentence. Also, do you mean Catholics (Capital "C" ???)

 

[drstevej]

A "prophet" can only be validated by the accuracy of the fore-telling prophecies he speaks in the Name of YHWH (Deu 18:20-22). A "prophet" who does not speak fore-telling prophecies, or gives prophecies which do not come to pass, is not a genuine & true "prophet" at all.

Absolutely correct.

 

[Albion]

You confuse the "gifts" of the spirit as being the same as the Priesthood of God.

Yes, that does appear to be the crux of this matter.

 

[fatboys]

Not true

Deut. 18:21-22
You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

sorry I meant to say they were not just called to see future events.

 

[fatboys]

What makes his priesthood 'higher'?

The lower priesthood was given to Aaron and the Levites. This priesthood was never meant to bring perfection as was the higher priesthood.