I have a question my husband and I have been struggling about with his mother. She is a widow and a Christian and has found another man to "marry." Since she would lose her benefits if she remarried, they had a pastor "marry" them in God's eyes only. Of course they are not legally married, as they have not followed the laws of the land, but does God honor there marriage? Any advice would be appreciated as she has told us, if you do not accept us as married, we have no relationship with you.
Married in the eye's of God
- Thread starter robinsnest2+3
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This is an interesting question. I wonder if someone could educate us on the history of "marriage." How recent of an occurence is it historically that "marriage" became a state sanctioned legal relationship as opposed to a church-blessed union of two persons. What was the practice in Biblical times or in the times of the early church?
I have heard than in some Middle Eastern traditions marriage and divorce is as simple as saying three times some variation of "I wed you." "I divorce you." If I was a Christian in 100 A.D., would I have had to have a marriage license to be married?
Okay, you historians out there. Enlighten us!
As for the posters question, I would tend to believe that being married in the eyes of the state is not the same thing as being married in the eyes of God. Still, there is that thing about, "...rendering unto Caesar..."
seeking.IAM
I have heard than in some Middle Eastern traditions marriage and divorce is as simple as saying three times some variation of "I wed you." "I divorce you." If I was a Christian in 100 A.D., would I have had to have a marriage license to be married?
Okay, you historians out there. Enlighten us!
As for the posters question, I would tend to believe that being married in the eyes of the state is not the same thing as being married in the eyes of God. Still, there is that thing about, "...rendering unto Caesar..."
seeking.IAM
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First thing that came to mind was "thou shalt not bear false witness". Sounds like a plan to 'get your cake and eat it too', and ultimately, with the little info here, sounds very dishonest.robinsnest2+3 said:
If we take the road that a legal marriage is not a marriage in the eyes of God, we have a lot of Biblical teachings that we have to discount or work around, in my opinion. And if we then work around them, we have to then work around all of the teachings re: fornication, adultery, divorce, marriage, etc. To me, and I know I'm opinionated, going down that path would seem to be nothing more than an attempt for Christian's to twist God's words to satisfy their own "flesh" desires....
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While I don't think that you have to be 'legally' married to be married in the eyes of God, I completely agree with the above quote. If the only reason that they aren't married legally is that she would lose her 'benifits', it's wrong. I think that God probably does see them as husband and wife, but they are still sinning by being dishonest.bkg said:
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I second the dishonest statement. By benefits do you mean a pension of some sort?
If so, I think she's trying to cheat the system (and therefore all of us) by joining in marriage and in finances with a different man. Pensions after the spouse dies and widow payments are supposed to support a widow...not someone who's found a new hunny but still wants the money.
If so, I think she's trying to cheat the system (and therefore all of us) by joining in marriage and in finances with a different man. Pensions after the spouse dies and widow payments are supposed to support a widow...not someone who's found a new hunny but still wants the money.
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E-beth
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Welcome to CF!
It seems to me that if they were so concerned about having God's blessing by being joined in His eyes, they would be willing to trust Him to provide for what the benefits cover.
It would be easier for me if my husband and I were not legally married, because then we would earn more in taxes and I could apply fro and be granted all sorts of federal aid in childcare, insurance, etc. But I love my husband, God wants me to be married to Him, so married we are in all respects.
If your Mom is ready to turn her back on all of you for the sake of her marriage, then support her. She isn't being immoral or living in sin, at least IMO, but she isn't exactly living out her faith and being truthful.
It seems to me that if they were so concerned about having God's blessing by being joined in His eyes, they would be willing to trust Him to provide for what the benefits cover.
It would be easier for me if my husband and I were not legally married, because then we would earn more in taxes and I could apply fro and be granted all sorts of federal aid in childcare, insurance, etc. But I love my husband, God wants me to be married to Him, so married we are in all respects.
If your Mom is ready to turn her back on all of you for the sake of her marriage, then support her. She isn't being immoral or living in sin, at least IMO, but she isn't exactly living out her faith and being truthful.
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God never violates His own word, so as nice as it sounds, they are not married in God's eyes. You can not say "I believe in this BUT" as there are no but's when it comes to God's word.
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Stealth001
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It's not uncommon for Quakers to marry without a marriage license or registering their marriages with the state. I can't see God not recognizing their marriages.
This is becoming more popular due to the fact that the family justice system appears to be so unjust at times and the cost of divorce is so terribly high. Courts are often biased against men or the "Christian parent". Never before might a man face losing nearly two thirds of his income in a divorce.
I know of couples who have desperate need of insurance or benefits they can only qualify for if single. To legally marry would essentially render them destitute and in serious need of insurance that they cannot afford.
More and more couples are opting to have what are being called "private marriages" or "spiritual marriages" complete with marriage ceremonies, marriage certificates, and witnesses. They just don't get a "marriage license" (which marriage isn't illegal and a couple shouldn't need a license to begin with) and they don't file taxes as a married couple.
One pastor states that in fact Christians SHOULDN'T get marriage licenses:
5 Reasons Why Christians Should Not Obtain a State Marriage License
One ministry I heard of specializes in providing these "spiritual marriages":
Home_Page
Many believe that marriage is a deeply private and spiritual matter that is a covenant between two people and God. It's not a "corporate contract" or "social contract" to be regulated by the state.
If Quakers can marry without government intrusion... why couldn't any devout Christian???
This is becoming more popular due to the fact that the family justice system appears to be so unjust at times and the cost of divorce is so terribly high. Courts are often biased against men or the "Christian parent". Never before might a man face losing nearly two thirds of his income in a divorce.
I know of couples who have desperate need of insurance or benefits they can only qualify for if single. To legally marry would essentially render them destitute and in serious need of insurance that they cannot afford.
More and more couples are opting to have what are being called "private marriages" or "spiritual marriages" complete with marriage ceremonies, marriage certificates, and witnesses. They just don't get a "marriage license" (which marriage isn't illegal and a couple shouldn't need a license to begin with) and they don't file taxes as a married couple.
One pastor states that in fact Christians SHOULDN'T get marriage licenses:
5 Reasons Why Christians Should Not Obtain a State Marriage License
One ministry I heard of specializes in providing these "spiritual marriages":
Home_Page
Many believe that marriage is a deeply private and spiritual matter that is a covenant between two people and God. It's not a "corporate contract" or "social contract" to be regulated by the state.
If Quakers can marry without government intrusion... why couldn't any devout Christian???
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Stealth001
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The OP is from 2004.
I found it on a Google search and thought I'd share a thought. lol
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I think the questions they need to ask themselves are these:
Is it pleasing to God to fornicate and not really be married?
OR
Is it pleasing to God to lie to, cheat, or defraud the people by pretending not to be married when they really are?
I understand some people don't want to register their marriages for fear of big brother. But here, the motivation seems to be to get money when they aren't legally entitled to it. Maybe the motivation for that is to be able to eat, so I understand.
I think there is something to be said for just doing the brave thing and trusting God to provide some way if they want to be married. In some states, they might be considered legally married even if they don't report it, so they could get in trouble later on.
This is a big problem in the US, and I wish the government would change laws to be more friendly to seniors getting married without having financial incentives against them for doing so. When even the older people start shacking up, that's got to have a negative, destabilizing effect on family in society.
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I didn't see that until after I posted. I feel like I've been Rick-Rolled.
It's still a relevant topic today.
It's still a relevant topic today.
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Stealth001
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Render unto God that which is God's. Is the institution of marriage the domain of Caesar or God??? Caesar wants to redefine marriage to include "gay marriage". Caesar doesn't have this right. In fact... Caesar shouldn't define marriage PERIOD. Marriage wasn't always the domain of the state. George Washington and Martha Dandridge didn't have a "marriage license". And what gives with a "marriage license"??? A "license" is essentially express legal permission granted from a legal authority to do that which would otherwise be illegal. For example, I have a Driver's License. To drive without it would be illegal. What Caesar is saying by forcing everyone to file for a marriage license is that marriage outside of Caesar's grip is illegal.
The justice system is corrupt. Who wants to navigate the system should they face a divorce??? Attorney's instigate messy divorces to make more money. And as a result... 45% of couples in the United States are choosing to cohabitate without being legally married. They obviously want Caesar OUT of their private lives. They'd rather choose their life partner privately and should their relationship fail... part privately. They want to manage their own lives without the STATE jumping in and mandating spousal compensation for untrue accusations etc. Many have faced the horrors of divorce in the legal system and never want to face that again. Instead of remaining in a marriage because of what penalties might befall them... they want to be together simply because they are in love.
What is required biblically??? A declaration of intent to marry and witnesses (family witnesses). That's all. A couple doesn't even need a preacher to officiate. All they need is evidence of witnesses. This is provided by a marriage certificate. And many family Bibles have them. A couple could declare their vows to one another, sign the certificate with witnesses and be married according to the biblical mandate. A virgin must have her father's permission. That's the "biblical" standard.
So... I can see why many don't want Caesar in their marriage. They want to marry God's way. Not man's way.
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Stealth001
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DZoolander
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To be honest, I've never quite understood ties between church and state when it comes to this issue. It's one of the areas that I think the Catholic church has it right (at least when it comes to divorce). While I don't agree with their stance - it's logically consistent to me. Even though the state may grant you a divorce - in the eyes of the church - you're still married.
If churches don't recognize divorce - then whatever the state may do should have no bearing upon what goes on within the church. On the same token - I don't think that legal sanctions for marriage should have any bearing on whether or not God (or the Church) perceives you as being married.
In the old days - to become married - basically all you did was bring the girl into your tent - have your way with her (with her consent ideally...lol) - and agree that you were married. That used to be all that was required to make God happy.
So - should the OP (who ain't reading this anymore) have recognized that dude as being his mother's new hubby? Sure - why not - if his concern was religious.
If churches don't recognize divorce - then whatever the state may do should have no bearing upon what goes on within the church. On the same token - I don't think that legal sanctions for marriage should have any bearing on whether or not God (or the Church) perceives you as being married.
In the old days - to become married - basically all you did was bring the girl into your tent - have your way with her (with her consent ideally...lol) - and agree that you were married. That used to be all that was required to make God happy.
So - should the OP (who ain't reading this anymore) have recognized that dude as being his mother's new hubby? Sure - why not - if his concern was religious.
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Rick Rolled is when you are on YouTube and see a link to an interesting shocking topic, then when you click on it, there is this song from the late '80's from this red headed baritone singer, Rick something or other. Something like, "I'm never gonna let you down and hurt you." I can't remember the lyrics. You've been Rick Rolled.
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