Why Obamacare is the best thing that's happened to this country in years

[Wolseley]

This whole thread reminds me of an old cartoon from the Cold War:

A bunch of diplomats from various countries are sitting at a table on top of a globe of the world; they've obviously been arguing, but now they have stopped and are all staring at a huge hydrogen bomb, which is standing next to the globe, measuring it up with a tape measure.

"Oh, don't mind me," the Bomb says, "go right on talking."

Message? Doom is hanging right over your heads, and yet rather than facing the doom, we all stand around and squabble about it.

 

[AMDG]

You do realize HR 3200 is not the affordable care act that we are talking about right. That the ACA is HR 3590. That HR 3200 died in committee and the ACA as approved into law is HR 3590...and is still...906 pages.

Please answer this question.

Snipped to portion being addressed. Longer post above.

I said that doctors have had to change their way of office procedures because of the law. (I have no idea why you don't want to believe.) It's there. Not one bit questionable. I know my doctor now uses computerized records--we need to sign in on computers so that we can be tracked. Notes are taken on IPADs--to be spread among the office. It is widely known that almost all elderly patients are not happy about this invasion of privacy and have been *very* vocal about it. (Some have even refused.) Staff at my doctor's office regularly apologize and refer us to Obamacare rules.

There are real problems with this flawed law--it does not bend the cost-curve down like was promised. (Don't know why you suddenly don't want to see. One minute you say, like the rest of us, that premiums are skyrocketing and services are decreasing, and the next you act like things are hunky-dorey.) Anyone can see that this bad law is causing businesses to lay-off people and I'm sure that even you know that some states arent going to set up exchanges--the Supreme Court says that they don't have to. Medicare *has* been looted. (Sebelius went before Congress over it--turned out she was double accounting, claiming to pay for Obamacare *and* make a savings for Medicare. Congress told her that it can't be both, so the fact is the Medicare money goes for Obamacare, but somehow there are folks that still believe that the same money can be used twice for two different purposes.) We have a doctor shortage as it is and this bill will only make that worse..

Look the law was passed. That's what was wanted. For people to be hurt, for our medical system to be dismantled, for the country's debt to be increased to insane amounts that can never be paid off, and for people to lose jobs. It's survival of the young adults and the strongest--I get it. Certainly if there is a book available to help the rest of us who will be negatively effected, that should be thought of as a kindness--unlike the unkindness of allowing us to be "sitting ducks". (Heck we might need books on Home Remedies too at the rate things are going.) It's certainly not hurting any of you and who knows you just might be glad of the information someday.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I'm a bit tired of the blindness. It's starting to play out in ways that seems horrific to me. Two men in the nursing home had their teeth pulled by decision of cutting costs by not treating their condition to save what appeared to be good teeth but no dentures will be made for them as well. When I asked why as this poor man was dripping blood on his lap & in pain? Obamacare. People don't realize that the powers that be get to decide who is & is not worthy of care. Given my work in the nursing home I'm frightened of how this is all going to come into play.

These people have worked their whole lives & now this? It's heartbreaking.

Wow, that's sad.
We knew the elderly would get treated bad... and it bothers e - even tho my parents and grandparents are gone now - we will all become elderly soon enough.

I'm so glad the lovers of Obamacare took the time to address my point about how Obamacare has helped me by raising my rates and doubling my deductible while I gross less than 20K from my post a couple of pages back now. Oh wait. They didn't.

I feel your pain, i share your pain.
With employment being iffy - and our rates almost $1000.00 a month with the impending Jan increase - the middle and lower class will feel this.

I said from the start - Obamacare would NOT be free. Someone always has to pay for it. And i said it would hurt us all. And it does.

This whole thread reminds me of an old cartoon from the Cold War:

A bunch of diplomats from various countries are sitting at a table on top of a globe of the world; they've obviously been arguing, but now they have stopped and are all staring at a huge hydrogen bomb, which is standing next to the globe, measuring it up with a tape measure.

"Oh, don't mind me," the Bomb says, "go right on talking."

Message? Doom is hanging right over your heads, and yet rather than facing the doom, we all stand around and squabble about it.

:o True.
But i have been staring at the bomb - my legs have been shaking as i know it is about to go off and we are all sealed in the room. The doors to escape were removed - the heating duct and windows - since the election.

 

[Wolseley]

God is still in charge, WA. I share your frustration, but there's not much we can do about it.

I look at it this way: I am literally dependant on prescription drugs in order to live; deprived of my medication, I will have a stroke, a heart attack, or a brain embolism within two weeks or less. If this country goes south, and the flow of those drugs is interrupted, then it won't make much difference for me anyway, because I'll be a dead duck.

So all I can do is tend my own life, and try to do what I can to follow Christ as best I know how. Nothing that happens down here really matters much, anyway. Only what you do to prepare yourself for the next world.

A good many of us may be entering it a lot sooner than we expect.

 

[Michie]

Wow, that's sad.
We knew the elderly would get treated bad... and it bothers e - even tho my parents and grandparents are gone now - we will all become elderly soon enough.

It is sad. Everyone is frustrated & the patients are paying for it because they are elderly.

Prayers appreciated.

 

[WarriorAngel]

God is still in charge, WA. I share your frustration, but there's not much we can do about it.

I look at it this way: I am literally dependant on prescription drugs in order to live; deprived of my medication, I will have a stroke, a heart attack, or a brain embolism within two weeks or less. If this country goes south, and the flow of those drugs is interrupted, then it won't make much difference for me anyway, because I'll be a dead duck.

So all I can do is tend my own life, and try to do what I can to follow Christ as best I know how. Nothing that happens down here really matters much, anyway. Only what you do to prepare yourself for the next world.

A good many of us may be entering it a lot sooner than we expect.

Nothing in this life is worth staying - i grant you.
Not that we should try to end it... but hopefully we make it in right away rather than sitting in the waiting room for years...in the next life.

But having a dictator hurry the course is nothing short of 'slow' genocide.

It is sad. Everyone is frustrated & the patients are paying for it because they are elderly.

Prayers appreciated.

Did the poor guy have tears?
He must have.

And there goes - human dignity.

 

[Davidnic]

Snipped to portion being addressed. Longer post above.

I said that doctors have had to change their way of office procedures because of the law. (I have no idea why you don't want to believe.) It's there. Not one bit questionable. I know my doctor now uses computerized records--we need to sign in on computers so that we can be tracked. Notes are taken on IPADs--to be spread among the office. It is widely known that almost all elderly patients are not happy about this invasion of privacy and have been *very* vocal about it. (Some have even refused.) Staff at my doctor's office regularly apologize and refer us to Obamacare rules.

There are real problems with this flawed law--it does not bend the cost-curve down like was promised. (Don't know why you suddenly don't want to see. One minute you say, like the rest of us, that premiums are skyrocketing and services are decreasing, and the next you act like things are hunky-dorey.) Anyone can see that this bad law is causing businesses to lay-off people and I'm sure that even you know that some states arent going to set up exchanges--the Supreme Court says that they don't have to. Medicare *has* been looted. (Sebelius went before Congress over it--turned out she was double accounting, claiming to pay for Obamacare *and* make a savings for Medicare. Congress told her that it can't be both, so the fact is the Medicare money goes for Obamacare, but somehow there are folks that still believe that the same money can be used twice for two different purposes.) We have a doctor shortage as it is and this bill will only make that worse..

Look the law was passed. That's what was wanted. For people to be hurt, for our medical system to be dismantled, for the country's debt to be increased to insane amounts that can never be paid off, and for people to lose jobs. It's survival of the young adults and the strongest--I get it. Certainly if there is a book available to help the rest of us who will be negatively effected, that should be thought of as a kindness--unlike the unkindness of allowing us to be "sitting ducks". (Heck we might need books on Home Remedies too at the rate things are going.) It's certainly not hurting any of you and who knows you just might be glad of the information someday.

I read the law as passed multiple times, adjusted the budget and we are suffering because of the law. I adjusted my budget and so far have been spot on with how I am being hurt. I would be for repeal and replace in a heartbeat. But that is because I know what was passed.

But the law is 906 pages. Are you ready to admit that so people can take your other points seriously. You claimed it was larger than that...if you can not get the size of the law right then other claims are just going to be ignored...even by those who agree with you that this is a bad law.

I am not arguing that doctors have to change their practices...but you quoted from a bill that died, not one that was made into law.

Why can you not admit that when the evidence is so clear?

Why can you not admit that your previous claims of an actual law larger then 906 pages are incorrect?

I agree with much of why you think the law is bad. But your insistence to hold on to the myths of some clandestine larger bill and you quoting the text from a bill that died and not the actual law is puzzling.

And you did not answer the question...do you realize you are quoting from HR 3200 a bill that died in committee and not HR 3590...the actual ACA?

Real easy question if you want to answer it.

If you are going to quote find the relevant section in the law that actually passed. How hard is that?

I am against this law, it is costing us over 20% more of our income with a baby on the way...but you need to make your arguments tight and correct.

 

[Michie]

Nothing in this life is worth staying - i grant you.
Not that we should try to end it... but hopefully we make it in right away rather than sitting in the waiting room for years...in the next life.

But having a dictator hurry the course is nothing short of 'slow' genocide.



Did the poor guy have tears?
He must have.

And there goes - human dignity.

Tears. Trembling & a mouthful of blood filled gauze. He was in lot of pain. Aides were scurrying about getting ready to feed the residents right in front of him while blood was literally coming out of his mouth like a faucet & pooling on is lap. It was heartbreaking. I grabbed a nurse & that where the Obamacare convo took place. He was sitting there in the lobby all by himself going through this & people were just whizzing past him. It was horrible.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Maybe Dr's got a different thing to read - that was longer.
I dont want involved in the debate.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Tears. Trembling & a mouthful of blood filled gauze. He was in lot of pain. Aides were scurrying about getting ready to feed the residents right in front of him while blood was literally coming out of his mouth like a faucet & pooling on is ap. It was heartbreaking. I grabbed a nurse & that where the Obamacare convo took place. He was sitting there in the lobby all by himself going through this & people were just whizzing past him. It was horrible.

O that poor thing. Seriously, i hate to hear this. I knew - just knew the elderly would be given the old 'you are no longer viable - so we dont have money for you' thing.

I dont know - this is making me rethink medical Asst - i know i couldnt handle seeing that.

 

[Michie]

O that poor thing. Seriously, i hate to hear this. I knew - just knew the elderly would be given the old 'you are no longer viable - so we dont have money for you' thing.

I dont know - this is making me rethink medical Asst - i know i couldnt handle seeing that.

I hate it at times. It affects my daily life when these things happen. But somebody has to do it. What is frightening is seeing the frustration from doctors & the medical staff. I have some real anxiety about how this is going to affect people.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I hate it at times. It affects my daily life when these things happen. But somebody has to do it. What is frightening is seeing the frustration from doctors & the medical staff. I have some real anxiety about how this is going to affect people.

Then we are in agreement. I have been stressing since the campaign 2008 if he got in.

And mainly due to the honest ppl [elderly] of other countries who are denied prime care. I was worried then, and worried now.
This is but part of 'compassion running cold due to gross sins' that Jesus referred to.

So long as the youth arent affected - they dont care. But when their parents come of age and left to suffer - it will be a new tune [for those that care]. Outrage that will be like spitting in the wind - screamed out in a vacuum.

I dont think i would last too long. I couldnt sit there - and let someone hurt. Or go past them without being affected.
I might make the freaking news.

 

[Fish and Bread]

I simply don't believe these stories being told. If the posters are being honest, then they either misunderstood the situation, the medical workers were being dishonest, or the medical workers misunderstood the situation. The Affordable Care Act is about protecting the vulnerable. It doesn't mandate hospital workers sit back and watch them die. It simply doesn't. What people are saying is not accurate. Someone somewhere is misinformed or misunderstanding something.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Also, when Kennedy was running for President in 1960, the upper bracket tax rate was 91%. That was likely the context in which he was calling for lower taxes in. I think it's misleading for someone to post a signature file in which Kennedy calls for lower taxes as if he would be against letting a temporary tax cut expire and allowing the upper bracket tax rate to move from 35% back to 39%. If anyone had told Kennedy taxes would get this low for the wealthy, he'd likely not have believed them, and probably would today support much bigger tax hikes in this type of situation than what even the most liberal of liberals is calling for today. The current upper tax bracket is barely more than a third of what it was in Kennedy's time.

 

[MKJ]

I'm a bit tired of the blindness. It's starting to play out in ways that seems horrific to me. Two men in the nursing home had their teeth pulled by decision of cutting costs by not treating their condition to save what appeared to be good teeth but no dentures will be made for them as well. When I asked why as this poor man was dripping blood on his lap & in pain? Obamacare. People don't realize that the powers that be get to decide who is & is not worthy of care. Given my work in the nursing home I'm frightened of how this is all going to come into play.

These people have worked their whole lives & now this? It's heartbreaking.

I am not sure how this could be related to the affordable health care act?

 

[SharonL]

I simply don't believe these stories being told. If the posters are being honest, then they either misunderstood the situation, the medical workers were being dishonest, or the medical workers misunderstood the situation. The Affordable Care Act is about protecting the vulnerable. It doesn't mandate hospital workers sit back and watch them die. It simply doesn't. What people are saying is not accurate. Someone somewhere is misinformed or misunderstanding something.

You are believing the lies that are being spoon fed to the American people. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg from the damage this administration is causing. Our country will never be the same - these stories are true and will get worse.

I've heard it from the doctor's mouths - I've lost 5 doctors in 2-1/2 years - getting out of the system because they are unable to treat their patients the way they should and many have quit taking Medicare patients because of it. It is the worst thing that has hit our country.

 

[good brother]

I'm still waiting for one of the lovers of Obamacare to explain to me the affordable part of the Affordable Care Act for me. Since it passed, my rates have gone up and my deductible has doubled. Did I say that I make a whopping 20K gross amually? So whats so affordable about it for me?

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

I'm still waiting for one of the lovers of Obamacare to explain to me the affordable part of the Affordable Care Act for me. Since it passed, my rates have gone up and my deductible has doubled. Did I say that I make a whopping 20K gross amually? So whats so affordable about it for me?

Problem is, there are few if any lovers of Obamacare here. I think the whole system of for profit insurance companies is flawed, and Obamacare would be better off replaced with single payer. Others may think it was a step in the right direction, but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who 'loves' the ACA.

 

[LoAmmi]

Problem is, there are few if any lovers of Obamacare here. I think the whole system of for profit insurance companies is flawed, and Obamacare would be better off replaced with single payer. Others may think it was a step in the right direction, but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who 'loves' the ACA.

I can tell you that the insurance companies love it.

 

[AMDG]

Why can you not admit that your previous claims of an actual law larger then 906 pages are incorrect?

Snipped to portion addressed. Longer post above.

I have said that we *all* know how to pad and also decrease pages of any document--elite or pica font--single space or space and a half--single side of paper or on both sides--and don't forget to add on the numerous regulations (or even the fact that the bill is in legalese and must be explained.) I have also noted the number of pages is from books and from www.americandoctors4truth.org (something you would readily see if you went to either of those sites.

As I have said the dang bill is passed. Y'all have what you want. You say that you have seen your premiums skyrocket and therefore know what how you will be effected. Well, why do you think I haven't?

My premiums have skyrocketed. As I said, my co-pays are more than an office visit. (Want to speak to my doctor's receptionist? She was really surprised.) Perhaps you'll also believe her when she tells you that my doctor's office hours have been cut so he can help out at the hospital. Want to talk about a doctor shortage? My own doctor told me that about 40% of the doctors are planning to leave the medical profession. Adding 30 million more patients without adding *one single doctor* to help out simply makes that worse and you know yourself that if forced to provide abortifacients, we can say "bye" to the Catholic or Christian pro-life ones. And I know that for several years, I've been saying that I see signs outside of doctors clinics around here that indicate that they are not taking any new patients. And yes, I can believe it because my husband no longer gets to see a doctor. He can only see a nurse. And since he's on Medicare, I can say that there aren't many doctors around that are willing to take the low payments of Obamacare (more properly a tax according to the Supreme Court there is a list of twenty taxes--and yes, a newpaper article had the list.) Since daughter is on Medicaid, I know that there aren't many doctors that will take those medical coupons either, so the low reimbursements of Obamacare won't help any. ERs are about the only place--but I posted a local newspaper article from here that limit those ER visits. And since it is "open season" for insurance, I found out that my own insurance is now limiting ER visits to 5. And according to Obamacare rules, the doctors *must* change office procedures to computer. (Now why do you think I haven't had personal experience here--afterall, I am under care for a chronic condition. Do you really need to talk to office staff that realize that the elderly patients don't like it and have been complaining?)

And for Pete's sake, don't put it on me that there has been a list of businesses that are laying off because of Obamacare. Even Dem. Stryker Corporation that makes those medical devices Obamacare will tax is having to do so. And I'm not to blame when Darden Restaurants (Olive Garden, Red Lobster, and--I think--Longhorn BBQ) have cut workers hours to part-time because of Obamacare. And don't blame me when places like MacDonalds simply have chosen to drop insurance for their people. And it's certainly not my fault that there *are* states that have chosen not to set up the exhanges--the Supreme Court said that the government cannot pull the Medicare money from them should they not do it. Heard some colleges have had to drop low-cost insurance too.

But you know what? Although I haven't reported anything that hasn't already happened, isn't in the news--sources like Washington Journal, the NY Times, the Olympian, the LA Times, the Cato Institute, Forbes, Heritage, Red State, National Center Policy Analysis--or hasn't already happened to me) concerning Obamacare, you don't have to believe me on anything. Why not just wait until the truth catches up with you.