God does not know the future

[Aijalon]

Most people seem to think of an omniscient God as one that knows what will happen before it happens, as though seeing into the future. Of course that would mean that God cannot change the future or else he didn't know it.

So then we must grasp that God has planned the future, and actively works to make sure his planned future happens. But how much does he plan, and how much is up to us? In other words, to what level of detail is everything planned?

Is who we marry planned in advance?

Is what we eat for breakfast planned in advance?

Is where we live planned?

How about what we say?

How about our thoughts?

If every little detail was planned, what would be the point of that? And if every little detail is not planned, isn't it fair to say that God does not know the future?

What are the details God is concerned with and what makes him reach down and respond?

Get on your knees and pray.

 

[Skala]

Most people seem to think of an omniscient God as one that knows what will happen before it happens, as though seeing into the future. Of course that would mean that God cannot change the future or else he didn't know it.

So then we must grasp that God has planned the future, and actively works to make sure his planned future happens. But how much does he plan, and how much is up to us? In other words, to what level of detail is everything planned?

Is who we marry planned in advance?

Is what we eat for breakfast planned in advance?

Is where we live planned?

How about what we say?

How about our thoughts?

If every little detail was planned, what would be the point of that? And if every little detail is not planned, isn't it fair to say that God does not know the future?

What are the details God is concerned with and what makes him reach down and respond?

Get on your knees and pray.

You urge us to pray. Doesn't that mean we are asking God to take control?

I'd rather a Holy, inerrant, righteous being determine what happens in this universe, rather than sinful, evil, wicked creatures.

 

[Hammster]

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Discussions about Nicene and Trinitarian beliefs may take place in the Christian-Only forums, all discussions regarding non-Nicene and non-Trinitarian topics will take place in Unorthodox Theology. Those topics include (but are not limited to)
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[Hammster]

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Moved from Christian Apologetics.


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[interpreter]

Most people seem to think of an omniscient God as one that knows what will happen before it happens, as though seeing into the future. Of course that would mean that God cannot change the future or else he didn't know it.

So then we must grasp that God has planned the future, and actively works to make sure his planned future happens. But how much does he plan, and how much is up to us? In other words, to what level of detail is everything planned?

Is who we marry planned in advance?

Is what we eat for breakfast planned in advance?

Is where we live planned?

How about what we say?

How about our thoughts?

If every little detail was planned, what would be the point of that? And if every little detail is not planned, isn't it fair to say that God does not know the future?

What are the details God is concerned with and what makes him reach down and respond?

Get on your knees and pray.

The Revelation is proof that there is a God, and that he knows the future. He predicted today's plagues of skin cancer, red tides and global warming.

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Most people seem to think of an omniscient God as one that knows what will happen before it happens, as though seeing into the future. Of course that would mean that God cannot change the future or else he didn't know it.

So then we must grasp that God has planned the future, and actively works to make sure his planned future happens. But how much does he plan, and how much is up to us? In other words, to what level of detail is everything planned?

Is who we marry planned in advance?

Is what we eat for breakfast planned in advance?

Is where we live planned?

How about what we say?

How about our thoughts?

If every little detail was planned, what would be the point of that? And if every little detail is not planned, isn't it fair to say that God does not know the future?

What are the details God is concerned with and what makes him reach down and respond?

Get on your knees and pray.

If God "planned" everything, He would contradict Himself. He has given us free will. We have to make sure His "planned future" happens? Is He not God?

In Christ,

Michael

 

[Ran77]

My thought on the subject is that God existed before this particular space-time structure and therefore exists outside of time itself. I believe this allows Him to observe / see all points in time as if they are the present.

 

[elopez]

Most people seem to think of an omniscient God as one that knows what will happen before it happens, as though seeing into the future. Of course that would mean that God cannot change the future or else he didn't know it.

Omniscient means all - knowing. The future is an aspect of that quantifier "all." Thus, to say God lacks knowledge of the future would be to say He is not all - knowing or omniscient. So yes, God has known the future from eternity, and yes, that means there is only one future possible.

So then we must grasp that God has planned the future, and actively works to make sure his planned future happens. But how much does he plan, and how much is up to us? In other words, to what level of detail is everything planned?

A common misconception arises within the discussion of omniscience/foreknowledge, and I believe it has occurred here as well. God knows all of the future, but that does not necessarily mean that God causes all of the future to happen. In other words, foreknowledge does not equate to causality from God as knowledge itself is not a causal relation that could make some event happen. God must only cause what He plans in the future, which is different from what God knows of the future.

When we speak of "plan" what comes to mind are such things like the creation of the universe, the death of Christ, the resurrection of Christ, and our personal salvation, to name a few. Matters of our salvation are predestined, while not everything in our life is a matter of salvation, not everything is therefore predestined. Other things are determined to happen, that is, a natural event or a human action without divine intervention, whereas I believe other things are predetermined, which is a natural event or human action that is entailed by divine intervention.

So, who we marry could be an instance of determination or predetermination, or it could be a matter of predestination if that marriage somehow is relevant to our salvation. What we eat for breakfast I would assume has no divine intervention at all, so it would be merely determined to happen. I think you get the idea...

If every little detail was planned, what would be the point of that? And if every little detail is not planned, isn't it fair to say that God does not know the future?

Who knows, there still may be a point even if everything is planned, as I would assume the 'plan' would be the point. Yet I do not think that. I think that not everything is planned by God in a direct, causal way, and I cannot reason how that would suggest He does not know the future.

 

[Senecharnix]

The Great Tribulation is not unfolding. None of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse are riding. God most certainly knows the future. But He is no cosmic Machiavellian making a mockery of free will by playing us mortal as if we were just a horde of puppets. Prophecy is about the consequences of actions that we mortals do of our own volition. God knows how we are going to act and where our collective folly will lead. And so, He warned us to be more righteous and far wiser than we have been.

 

[interpreter]

The Great Tribulation is not unfolding. None of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse are riding. God most certainly knows the future. But He is no cosmic Machiavellian making a mockery of free will by playing us mortal as if we were just a horde of puppets. Prophecy is about the consequences of actions that we mortals do of our own volition. God knows how we are going to act and where our collective folly will lead. And so, He warned us to be more righteous and far wiser than we have been.

The great tribulation of WW II has already unfolded, and the four horsemen have long ago appeared. The 4th horsemen, the USA, still rides. We are now experiencing the 7 last plagues.

 

[wordsoflife]

God knows everything that is going to happen. That is how the Old Testament is full of prophecies that Jesus fulfilled.

 

[eachallberg]

Most people seem to think of an omniscient God as one that knows what will happen before it happens, as though seeing into the future. Of course that would mean that God cannot change the future or else he didn't know it.

So then we must grasp that God has planned the future, and actively works to make sure his planned future happens. But how much does he plan, and how much is up to us? In other words, to what level of detail is everything planned?

Is who we marry planned in advance?

Is what we eat for breakfast planned in advance?

Is where we live planned?

How about what we say?

How about our thoughts?

If every little detail was planned, what would be the point of that? And if every little detail is not planned, isn't it fair to say that God does not know the future?

What are the details God is concerned with and what makes him reach down and respond?

Get on your knees and pray.

God's plans are the future. God knows His plans.
Other things happen around the centered plan (Christ), but the question is...
Is it chance or fate? Freewill or destiny?

Neither of any.
What goes on is beyond are comprehension.

Peace.

 

[Exjunkman]

Just bringing this topic up once again opens the Hell can of worms.

If God knows everything that will happen then He MUST have planned it. Otherwise, He would not be in control.

So If God knew ahead of time that the vast majority of His creation would suffer in this life and then suffer for all of eternity, then He would have to be a sadistic God for planning it that way.
I can hear you now about the whole free will thing. Yes there is free will, but given this sin nature we all have, its not really all that free now, is it?

The Word says God IS love. Now those two ideas are a contradiction.

I ask you to take a hard look at this issue and consider if perhaps the church has given us a false premise in the meaning of life and salvation.
I believe we are saved from the results of sin & death in this life.

In the next one...I go with either Universal Restoration or Annihilism.
I just can't buy the one that most believe.

It should matter a lot when we try to reach others with the gospel.
"Join us or else be tortured forever" is not a palatable message to unbelievers.
Just what kind of a God are we peddling anyway?

 

[strangertoo]

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God is time-less my friend ... things only appear to change in created worlds... worlds appear from nothing and return to nothing and nothing has changed with God...

prophecy is easy for God , nothing ever changes for God...

the spirit is NOT like the physical, to be perfect the endless has to ne unchanging. no time...

Matthew 6:20 ... heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

as for praying , no prayer can be answered until one's heart turns from desiring sin to desiring Love and one stops sinning, the first step is ours and it is not prayer... praying is for the righteous, the Loving man, no use praying as a sinner ... rather listen to God and Jesus, that they command Love and realise sin is not Loving, it is abusing folks...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[DennisTate]

Most people seem to think of an omniscient God as one that knows what will happen before it happens, as though seeing into the future. Of course that would mean that God cannot change the future or else he didn't know it.

So then we must grasp that God has planned the future, and actively works to make sure his planned future happens. But how much does he plan, and how much is up to us? In other words, to what level of detail is everything planned?

Is who we marry planned in advance?

Is what we eat for breakfast planned in advance?

Is where we live planned?

How about what we say?

How about our thoughts?

If every little detail was planned, what would be the point of that? And if every little detail is not planned, isn't it fair to say that God does not know the future?

What are the details God is concerned with and what makes him reach down and respond?

Get on your knees and pray.

Wow!!!!!!

What an astonishingly insightful bunch of questions!!!!!

How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

Psalms 139:18 [If] I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

At this time I am of the opinion that God's thoughts toward King David were so numerous because each and every minute detail of decisions that King David made affected not only Israel during his time period but had astonishing implications right down to our era!!!!!!

For instance....the sin of King David with Bathsheba may be one of the greatest causes of the clan warfare between the tribes of Ireland, Scotland and England and all of Europe if some of the theories of Orthodox Jewish scholar Yair Davidiy are correct that descendants of the lost tribes, and of David himself migrated into the British Isles...among many other areas.

Do a search for this PDF file to get a better idea of what I mean:

Jeremiah, Ireland, and the Dynasty of King David

Astonishing as it may seem, the British Monarchy is descended from the lineage of ancient king David of Israel. British-Israel people say that the prophet Jeremiah transferred the royal line via king Zede- kiah’s daughters, but no evidence has substantiated this theory. However, there IS a connection – even more mysterious and phenomenal – involving a daughter of king David himself.

William F. Dankenbring Does the royal line of Great Britain go back in history to the ancient Hebrew tribe of Judah, and also to the ancient king of Israel, David, the beloved of God? There is much evidence to show that this conclusion is true, but not in the way that some believe!

 

[DennisTate]

Just bringing this topic up once again opens the Hell can of worms.

If God knows everything that will happen then He MUST have planned it. Otherwise, He would not be in control.

So If God knew ahead of time that the vast majority of His creation would suffer in this life and then suffer for all of eternity, then He would have to be a sadistic God for planning it that way.
I can hear you now about the whole free will thing. Yes there is free will, but given this sin nature we all have, its not really all that free now, is it?

The Word says God IS love. Now those two ideas are a contradiction.

I ask you to take a hard look at this issue and consider if perhaps the church has given us a false premise in the meaning of life and salvation.
I believe we are saved from the results of sin & death in this life.

In the next one...I go with either Universal Restoration or Annihilism.
I just can't buy the one that most believe.

It should matter a lot when we try to reach others with the gospel.
"Join us or else be tortured forever" is not a palatable message to unbelievers.
Just what kind of a God are we peddling anyway?

I am firmly in the Universal Restoration camp!

All of this actually fits amazingly well with theoretical physics:

www.carbonbias.blogspot.ca/

 

[JoJo50]

.

Jehovah God does really know everything, but unlike satan, he doesn’t MAKE us do things. Why do many believe Jehovah God, (thought that’s not who they’re referring to), can create, but not know or able to control to a certain point? He not a human, we as humans can only do certain things. Or know, and understand certain things, (Isa.55:8,9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts). So ANYTHING, Jehovah God said he’s going to do, EVEN if it seem to humans, it won’t happen, it will , (Isa. 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it).

Jehovah God doesn’t always match make, in other words, he will not send a servant of his to an unbeliever. That would make them unequally yoked, (2Cor. 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness)? Many “believers” also need to understand, God didn’t just mean those who don’t believe in him or his words. He also mean those who claim to be a Christian, spiritual siblings, yet they follows the world, (1John 2:15). These also, a true servant of Jehovah God, can’t deal with ,( 1Cor. 5:9-13).

Again God unlike satan, doesn’t try to control mankind, He gives us free will. He does give us to knowledge to know when something isn’t good or right for us. we just at times choose NOT to follow it. Exam., women especially, many want a certain man, even if there are sign to run the other way. Once in that relationship many regret it, God can’t be blamed for that. Sometimes many choose a place they want to live, KNOWING it’s well out of their means. Later regretting it, God isn’t to blame for that. Many do stupid things without thinking about the outcome. When things turn out bad, they blame God, (Pro. 19:3 The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the LORD).

Jehovah God is more concern with saving our once lost life. This is why he sent his son Jesus, to die in our behave, (John 3:16,17). He sent Jesus also to teach us the ways in which to walk. And who’s will we NEED to do, so that we might NOT be destroyed ,( John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent , John 17:6-8 , John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day ,and Matt. 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother).

Jehovah/Yahweh, the God of Israel, wants ALL to worship him , (Isa. 45:5 , Psa. 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. And Malachi- 1:6). Though he knows that’s NOT going to happen , (Pro. 1:28-32),… for now! He wants us to follow Jesus teachings TOTALLY, NOT just the ones we WANT to follow. He want us to NOT follow the world, knowing satan is leading many to destruction, (2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

And 1Pet.5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour). Including many ministers, (2Cor. 11:13-15). He doesn’t ask for much, unlike Satan’s world. Yet many…”believers”, would STILL refuse him. As I tell many, it’s your world! peace

 

[elopez]

If God knows everything that will happen then He MUST have planned it.

This statement simply does not logically follow. Knowledge does not equal causation. See, "plan" requires that one actually execute what what they mentally plan. As foreknowledge does not equal causation, and God foreknows everything, not everything God foreknows of He causes. To assume otherwise would be to commit the fallacy of Post Hoc, which is to falsely assume that as something happened after something else, that something else must have caused what happened. So, it's not about the whole free will thing rather what has been mentioned above, yet free will is a relevant factor of why God is not accountable for what happens on earth.

God is not all - controlling. God's Sovereign will only pertains to that which God directly causes Himself. In such an instance, whatever God wills to happen is going to happen and nothing else will or can. There is also the revealed will of God which is where free will comes in. The revealed will of God is that which God reveals to humanity in a known way. An example would be in the Garden with Adam and Eve with the command to not eat from the tree.

 

[Exjunkman]

God is not all - controlling. God's Sovereign will only pertains to that which God directly causes Himself. In such an instance, whatever God wills to happen is going to happen and nothing else will or can. There is also the revealed will of God which is where free will comes in. The revealed will of God is that which God reveals to humanity in a known way. An example would be in the Garden with Adam and Eve with the command to not eat from the tree.

Are you implying that God knew Adam and Eve would fall before He made them, but He is completely without any responsibility?
Since He knew they would sin and created them anyway isn't that really the same thing as INTENDING for them to sin?

 

[elopez]

Are you implying that God knew Adam and Eve would fall before He made them, but He is completely without any responsibility?

Yes.

Since He knew they would sin and created them anyway isn't that really the same thing as INTENDING for them to sin?

No. That was my whole point with my last post.