I said: The wages of sin is always death and that goes for all.
That means you're saying that if you sin, your wages won't be death? That happens here as well. When Adam sinned, he fell out of fellwship.
Have you not been listening all these months?? Yes, I am saying that when I sin, I am washed in Jesus blood and am born of God: being born of God I cannot sin in God's eyes. My sins, including my future sins, were IMPUTED to Jesus -- they are assigned to His account and He ALREADY paid the price for them on the cross.
Adam did not have the benefit of Jesus' blood during the fall of man.
I said: That's a big presumption. If they were part of the church, that means they were in the Body of Christ, because that is the church.
The unsaved are NOT the church.
You've already admitted there are tares in the church. Are you waivering now?
Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
So what spot and blemish is being washed from the church? Are the saved spotted and blemished?? In your paradigm the saved are not spotted, and this set of verses should be ripped from the Bible. In my paradigm the saved are being sanctified: this process is removing the spots and blemishes from the church. Jesus will present us whole and clean before the Father. He has sealed us for that hour.
I ask you, if Jesus really did mean that the lukewarm would not be accepted into Heaven, wouldn't you want to know that beforehand? Instead of assuming you're deal was done? Wouldn't you want to know the truth (assuming that is so, and I'm quite sure it is)?
The difference between us is not whether the lukewarm will be accepted into Heaven (they won't: Jesus says He will spit them from His mouth). The difference is in the definition of "lukewarm." Laodicea was a prime example of a group who will say "Lord, Lord." But Jesus never knew them.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 5:18
Are you saying that the enemy has the power to snatch one from God's hand? The enemy is more powerful to take from God what God cannot hold??
No. Keeping yourself that the wicked one toucheth you not is an admonition to resist the devil and he will flee. He comes to steal, kill and destroy. He wants to make your testimony and your works here on earth void. He wants you to be useless to the kingdom, for he has absolutely no sway over whether a saved man will be saved at the Judgement. If he had that power both Paul and Peter were seriously out of line when they turned people over to satan for the saving of their souls.
I said: I think that the meaning of this verse is taken out of context.
There is an understanding of "whatsoever is born of God" that eludes the translation in the King James. If we apply this to simply being born again, then we have a permanent vacation and simply will go to Heaven no matter what (forget the commandments). BUT, if whatsoever is born of God present tense, then you're walking in the divine nature and in the light. You're fullfilling the righteousness, being obedient, abiding in Him.
No, it isn't a permanent vacation. Paul covered that in Romans. We do not have license to sin; nor do we have license to simply sit back and eat bon bons. Sure we will be saved, but our mission is to take the Gospel to the world. A born again believer desires to please God, and doing His commandments is the primary way to love Him the best way we can.
My paradigm is that ALL the Word is true and to say you can't sin, when John clearly states that you can. If we say we don't when we do we become liars (they're on the reject list if they don't repent).
Quit twisting scripture. John did not say that.
1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
John CLEARLY says that if we say "we have no sin." In other words if we declare that we are sinless and have never sinned. v10: "if we say that we have not sinned..." Again, have we ever sinned?
And even in 1 John 3:8-9 " 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
We see that Jesus destoryed the works of the devil. So when we are born of God we cannot sin. Why? I sin daily according to God's perfect judgement. But God does not impute my sin to me; it has been imputed to Christ's account on the cross. Jesus destroyed the works of the devil. Those without Jesus are of the devil when they sin. Those of us who have Jesus have our sins imputed to Him and we cannot sin in God's eyes.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:6
"Lord, Lord" but I did not know you.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10
Covered above.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4
"Lord, Lord" but I did not know you.
Hebrews 8:10-12
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deedsI will remember no more.
You shred the scripture with your paradigm. His commandments are written on my heart and I do them because I have been made righteous and I am being sanctified. As I grow in the Lord the sins that I do He will remember no more: for being born of God "I cannot sin." (1 Jn 3:9)
You really have to try hard not to see this.
WE are told not to love the world because if we do, we aren't "in Him" or walking in the Spirit, or abiding in Him\, or walking in the light.
You will know them by their fruit.
Every word is established. You cannot take isolated verses out of the Bible and make an ironclad doctrine of them. It has to agree with what is already revealed.
Um, yeah. So why do you dimiss so much that I have shown you?
So you're saying that you have no sin?
I don't think you are asking what you mean to ask.
I sin daily. But I have no sin. My sin was paid for at the cross and ALL my sin (past, present and future) is IMPUTED to Jesus. It is NOT imputed to me. I am not charged with my sin because I am born of God and I cannot sin. My sin is IMPUTED to Christ. He carried away our sin to the uninhabitable place as the scapegoat in the sacrifice on the cross.
2 Corinthians 5:18-21
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christs behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
My sin is NOT imputed to me. I cannot sin because I am born of God, even though I sin daily. Jesus paid the price. Jesus took my sin. Jesus continues to take my sin. I have been justified and redeemed.
Here we are "because he is born of God". Jesus said you had to abide in Him. That means dwell and that speaks of a choice. Surely, "he is born of God" means that he is walking in resurrection life (a choice necessary to accomplish).
Surely?? Are you adding an extra-biblical influence?
Look at 1 John 3:9. It doesn't say "surely that is walking in resurrection life." It says "Whoever has been born of God does not sin." Period. "...for His seed remains in him;" THIS is the reason (not walking in resurrection life). It is because of His seed, not because of our actions. "...and he cannot sin," Why? Because he's walking in resurrection life? Or perhaps we should pay attention to scripture when it answers the question: "...because he has been born of God."
It ain't rocket science. The answer is right there. It is not anything that you do and earn: it is because of Him.
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.
1 John 3:24 (KJV)
Back up to v20 at least. This isn't salvific. This is about (v22) "whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love on another, as He gave us commandment."
Stay in context, AA
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:10
"Lord, Lord." But I did not know you.
You're chasing your tail here, AA. You are going to ask if a believer ever acts out of love toward his brother. I'll say sure. Then I'll ask, so does that mean that at the event of that sin we lose salvation. And you, as you've done before, will say no that God knows our heart and it is a repeated acting of such sin that will condemn you....
The believer has God's commandments written on his heart. He may stumble but he will not stay in that sin. He will repent, for he is born of God. His fruit will show. He is being sanctified. He will be drawn toward the righteousness of Christ; he will not stay in sin. Those who embrace sin are not of God, they are of the devil.
Back to your quote above: He who is a child of God is manifest: he will do righteousness. He who is a child of the devil is manifest: he will not do righteousness. This is not an instant of sin; this is a lifestyle, a desire, an ongoing and lasting thing.
I said: There are almost certainly going to be believers deny Christ in the tribulation in an attempt to save their skin. If people are given the impression, because they are "sealed", that the deal is sealed, they will have a rude awakening.
In THE tribulation? Or just in tribulation.
In THE tribulation the saved are raptured and are not there. The remaining people will have some who follow the Beast; and some who will call upon God and repent of their ways and will become saved. When they are saved they are sealed.
Those who are not saved, but are playing church, when asked about the "Lord?" will say "I never knew him," and will take the mark.
The whole "sealed" thing and the translation of impossible for the believer to sin thing are monuments to why you believe that you are no longer accountable to God and have to obey Him to still make Heaven. Your "works" are only saying "yes" to Him, which is all you can do. He gives the grace and ability. You can only choose and you must ALWAYS choose yes.
When did I say that I "believe that [I am] no longer accountable to God"?? Of course I'm accountable. But I am changed, and I have been given the righteousness of Christ. My desires are not the desires of an unsaved world. My desires are for righteousness. This is what a renewed spirit helps one with.
