FTS Scientific Calculator

[Elendur]

Can anyone tell me if there is a feed-the-starving conversion calculator that calculates how many in India (or elsewhere) that could have been fed by the monies invested in tithing? building bigger church buildings? producing and buying Bibles? supporting the salaries of pastors across America? building large statues of Jesus by the interstate? etc.?

At least scientific research grows the economy. NASA is responsible for a lot of technological advances.

Zing!
( )

 

[AV1611VET]

So it's not really equality and lessening of suffering that is your goal, interesting.

I'm just tired of seeing people walk on the moon, while others starve elsewhere.

Especially when ... in the rare times you can get an educatee to consider the plight of others ... their "remedy" is: "Get an education."

It's easy to turn away from your monitor at Mission Control for a moment and say, "Oh ... them ... ya, get them an education and they'll work out their own problems."

Well, you can still die of starvation, knowing E=MC[sup]2[/sup].

 

[AV1611VET]

At least scientific research grows the economy.

It does, huh?

What is the national debt of India?

(Please answer this.)

 

[thaumaturgy]

Okay.

No.

No.

No.

I have a feeling India's problems are such, that financial rescue would not be sufficient.

India has, in my opinion, a spiritual problem.

No -- socialism is not the solution.

Unfortunately you just shot your own potential debate point in the heart.

You cannot debate against the utility of public expenditures like Apollo etc. by counterpoint as to how much more good that money could do unless you agree that this would expand to everything.

By definition your original point directs toward socialism.

Why else would you ask the question?

 

[thaumaturgy]

So it's not really equality and lessening of suffering that is your goal, interesting.

That's why I put it in those terms to AV. I kind of knew he had a limit to his point and we found that limit very quickly. Indeed I think he tripped up here in that he thought he was making one point but he forgot to cover his backside and wound up with an indefensible point.

Took less time than I figured it would.

 

[Skavau]

I'm just tired of seeing people walk on the moon, while others starve elsewhere.

Obviously not that upset if you think India's problem is "spiritual" based and won't entertain much of anything of what thaumaturgy says.

Especially when ... in the rare times you can get an educatee to consider the plight of others ... their "remedy" is: "Get an education."

What's your remedy sir? You were offered the abandonment of a consumer culture and pure communism by thaumuturgy. That might be extreme, but surely some of his options in some circumstances could be applied?

It's easy to turn away from your monitor at Mission Control for a moment and say, "Oh ... them ... ya, get them an education and they'll work out their own problems."

Well, you can still die of starvation, knowing E=MC[sup]2[/sup].

I'm not sure anyone at Mission Control actually thinks this, you know.

Poverty has many causes and it differs depending on where you are in the world.

 

[Elendur]

I'm just tired of seeing people walk on the moon, while others starve elsewhere.

Especially when ... in the rare times you can get an educatee to consider the plight of others ... their "remedy" is: "Get an education."

It's easy to turn away from your monitor at Mission Control for a moment and say, "Oh ... them ... ya, get them an education and they'll work out their own problems."

Well, you can still die of starvation, knowing E=MC[sup]2[/sup].

But of course, you don't want to be a little less comfortable yourself while you preach like this.
I'll bet that there's at least 10% of your daily costs that is easy to save, and perhaps donate to those in need.

 

[Elendur]

Obviously not that upset if you think India's problem is "spiritual" based and won't entertain much of anything of what thaumaturgy says.


What's your remedy sir? You were offered the abandonment of a consumer culture and pure communism by thaumuturgy. That might be extreme, but surely some of his options in some circumstances could be applied?


I'm not sure anyone at Mission Control actually thinks this, you know.

Poverty has many causes and it differs depending on where you are in the world.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I'm just tired of seeing people walk on the moon, while others starve elsewhere.

Especially when ... in the rare times you can get an educatee to consider the plight of others ... their "remedy" is: "Get an education."

It's easy to turn away from your monitor at Mission Control for a moment and say, "Oh ... them ... ya, get them an education and they'll work out their own problems."

Well, you can still die of starvation, knowing E=MC[sup]2[/sup].

Ironically enough the Indian Institute of Technology pumps out some extremely well educated scientists and technologists! That's kind of why India has a good strong tech sector. They even have a big satellite industry as well if I recall correctly (speaking of space stuff).

So indeed India is getting ready to eat our lunch, economically speaking. Where I work every 6 months we host a different contractor technician from an Indian tech company who is contracted to our company. They come over and work with out tech folks and then go back so they can, as I understand it, work better with us when they are back in India.

We are doing quite a lot to help out India in this area and Indian poverty is being attacked. Which is good. Yes there are social issues, but destroying SETI isn't really going to do more for India than we are already doing for India.

I wouldn't worry too much about this. In the long run India will get it's stuff together (as will China) and they will dominate the world economies and we will fade into obsolesence and the teeter-totter will flip. India's poverty level apparently is falling! (BBC) So that's good news!

And maybe in a few decades the Indians can ask themselves if they should do more for the poor of the world instead of investing in computers and space stuff.

As JC said the poor will always be with us.

But of course that doesn't mean it can't be Americans!

 

[thaumaturgy]

Well, you can still die of starvation, knowing E=MC[sup]2[/sup].

That's actually a great point! Honestly! E=mc^2 underlies things like atomic bombs! And India has certainly not been a slouch in applying some of its money to make those! As have we!

I wonder how much money could have been spent to help the poor by not developing the atomic bomb? (We can subtract out the countless dead American GI's in the Japanese homeland invasion of WWII which would have probably been necessary without the Bomb, but I'm not overly fond of the Bomb anyway, and since my dad had a bad eye he was probably only going to see some action in the Phillipines when he shipped over near the end of WWII, probably only as a support guy and not and infantryman storming Japanese beaches...but guess we'll never know since they dropped the bomb as he was on his way over to the Phillipines. He used to tell me that once the Japanese heard that he was coming over to that side of the Pacific they knew the game was up so they surrendered.)

 

[CabVet]

Can anyone tell me if there is a feed-the-starving conversion calculator that calculates how many in India (or elsewhere) that could have been fed by the monies invested in the Apollo program? S.E.T.I.? LHC? studies on armpit odor? etc.?

I'm not asking for a lecture on what good came out of the above,* I'm just asking if there's a scientific calculator that converts these numbers?

* Which I'm sure would be a short one.

I can certainly tell you how many in India could have been fed by these values:

Joel Osteen - $40 million (he has a $10.5 million home)
Billy Graham - $25 million
Paul and Jan Crouch - $200 million
Kenneth Copeland -$30 million (including a $6.3 million home and a private jet)

Should I keep going? SETI costs $2.5 million a year, just to put you in perspective:

 

[CabVet]

I'm just tired of seeing people walk on the moon, while others starve elsewhere.

I am too tired of seeing ministers receive millions in salary, while others starve elsewhere.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Yes, I did [reluctantly] read it.

I usually address only one or two points, when someone responds with multiple points.

I don't like to get bogged down and let one person monopolize my time, as my style is more rapid-fire.

Kind of like a simultaneous [Chess] exhibition, versus a single match.

Lol, the difference between you and someone giving a simultaneous chess exhibition is that the person giving the exhibition doesn't usually get hideously slaughtered like a patzer in every game.

Although here is an amusingly apt example from wiki:

The absolute worst result in a simultaneous exhibition was two wins and 18 losses (10%) by Joe Hayden, aged 17, in August 1977. Hayden wanted to set an American record by playing 180 people simultaneously at a shopping center in Cardiff, NJ, but only 20 showed up to play. Hayden lost 18 of the games (including one to a seven-year-old). His two wins were scored against his mother and a player who got tired of waiting and left in mid-game, thus forfeiting the game (Fox & James 1993, pp. 190–91).

 

[sandwiches]

I'm just tired of seeing people walk on the moon, while others starve elsewhere.

Especially when ... in the rare times you can get an educatee to consider the plight of others ... their "remedy" is: "Get an education."

It's easy to turn away from your monitor at Mission Control for a moment and say, "Oh ... them ... ya, get them an education and they'll work out their own problems."

Well, you can still die of starvation, knowing E=MC[sup]2[/sup].

Speak with your wallet, AV, if you're such a concerned citizen. Instead of wasting money for trolling on internet forums, why not donate that to poor families? And it's irrelevant if and how much you donate now. The point is, you can obviously donate more.

So, internet activist, put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

It does, huh?

What is the national debt of India?

(Please answer this.)

Are you arguing that scientific research doesn't grow economies? That would be quite ludicrous. Or are you just trying to deflect the rest of my post?

3 cents a day to feed a child, eh? Well, Touchdown Jesus cost 25,000,000 cents. Doesn't take much math to figure out that this monument to religious affluence and arrogance could have fed a lot of children. And it's not like this statue did anything other than sit on the side of the interstate until it burned down.

I'm just tired of seeing people walk on the moon, while others starve elsewhere.

When was the last time you saw someone walk on the moon?

Especially when ... in the rare times you can get an educatee to consider the plight of others ... their "remedy" is: "Get an education."

It's easy to turn away from your monitor at Mission Control for a moment and say, "Oh ... them ... ya, get them an education and they'll work out their own problems."

Well, you can still die of starvation, knowing E=MC[sup]2[/sup].

Advancing scientific research (which creates jobs and improves health) is far more productive than sitting around and posting in counting threads. Investing in technology and science is important. It leads to discoveries that can alleviate the suffering of people worldwide.

If you actually cared about the poor and starving rather than to use them as an anti-"educatee" talking point, you'd be spending more time helping them out. I really think this all boils down to your dislike of people who have an education. What is it? An inferiority complex? It's not even about Creation vs. Evolution or Bible vs. Science anymore, is it?

 

[Nabobalis]

It is one more of these, why do we spend so much money on research when we could be using it for other things such as feeding the poor. The simple answer is, this money goes to fund projects that improve lives, cleaner production of products and of energy etc. Without it, you would have no money being invested in projects that look at improving crop yields and curing disease. If you care so much about the poor (which you clearly don't), you'd have no problem with people trying to come up with solutions to certain problems.

If you don't have an issue with the money spent on wars, collected by churches and the like, then you can not complain about this without being a hypocrite.

Secondly, when offered the some solutions you decry it as socialism. Not only demonstrating the fact you don't know what socialism is. But any genuine solution that helps the poor, you don't care about.

I wonder when you'll bring up the Challenger crash. Bet you have an angle for that.

 

[Elias526]

Instead of wasting money for trolling on internet forums, why not donate that to poor families?

How do you know he is wasting money? Just about any old junk computer will get you on this forum.

 

[Elendur]

How do you know he is wasting money? Just about any old junk computer will get you on this forum.

Trolling wastes time of himself and others, electricity, bandwidth and storage capacity. It's not just related to his equipment.
(And all those things cost money)

 

[thaumaturgy]

It is one more of these, why do we spend so much money on research when we could be using it for other things such as feeding the poor. The simple answer is, this money goes to fund projects that improve lives, cleaner production of products and of energy etc. Without it, you would have no money being invested in projects that look at improving crop yields and curing disease. If you care so much about the poor (which you clearly don't), you'd have no problem with people trying to come up with solutions to certain problems.

If you don't have an issue with the money spent on wars, collected by churches and the like, then you can not complain about this without being a hypocrite.

Secondly, when offered the some solutions you decry it as socialism. Not only demonstrating the fact you don't know what socialism is. But any genuine solution that helps the poor, you don't care about.

That's a key aspect AV overlooked. The people who worked on Apollo etc. all got paid for their work thus keeping them and their families from starving.

IF AV wishes to point out that they got paid a lot of money to do this work that could have been parsed out more to help the poor, then he is implicitly supporting "social engineering" or socialism on an economic scale where something other than the "market" decides the value of labor.

Again, AV keeps running up against the implication of socialism in his own point while later disavowing socialism.

 

[CabVet]

How do you know he is wasting money? Just about any old junk computer will get you on this forum.

Cheapest internet is $20 per month, cable is much more. With that you can feed a family in India.