If being in Heaven is being at peace then how do you explain.

revrobor

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Further: We should be careful not to speculate too much or speak beyond what Scripture says about things such as this. It is far too easy to become dogmatic about a subject where Scripture isn't, or where the broad witness of the Church has been all but silent.

-CryptoLutheran

You might keep that in mind when you try to say we will grieve for our lost loved ones. There is no Scripture that says we will even know what they are doing.
 
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RBarnes

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Maybe you should begin viewing them as hardened criminals who have been tried righteously in judgment, instead of accidental victims.

And remember, if you are in Christ your beloved family (your mother, your brothers, etc Mt 12:48) will be right alongside you on earth in Heaven - not burning in the lake of fire.

If you are so concerned about your unbelieving relatives (as Christians ought to be) then take advantage of this age of grace and convince them to repent and draw near to God through the sacrifice of his beloved Son.

You ARE asking a fair question which deserves fair response. Don't be dissuaded by the replies of those who accuse you for even asking the question, especially when their only answer is "oh well, blind faith, and the rest, etc"...
 
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ViaCrucis

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You might keep that in mind when you try to say we will grieve for our lost loved ones. There is no Scripture that says we will even know what they are doing.

I don't think I've claimed that, least of all dogmatically.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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seeingeyes

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You might keep that in mind when you try to say we will grieve for our lost loved ones. There is no Scripture that says we will even know what they are doing.

Why should we assume that we will have no memory of this life? God has always been asking his people to remember what He has done from them. From Passover to Communion, God is constantly reminding His people to remember, remember, don't forget, and remember some more.

Why would this God suddenly purge our memories? There certainly is no hint of this idea in the Bible. When Samuel's ghost was conjured up, he knew very well who Saul was. When Lazarus was raised from the dead, he didn't seem to have any trouble recognizing his sisters. After Jesus's resurrection, he not only remembered why he had died, but his new body still bore the scars of his death. What is the point of that constant eternal reminder of sin and death if we are just gonna forget what he did for us anyway?
 
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revrobor

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Why should we assume that we will have no memory of this life? God has always been asking his people to remember what He has done from them. From Passover to Communion, God is constantly reminding His people to remember, remember, don't forget, and remember some more.

Why would this God suddenly purge our memories? There certainly is no hint of this idea in the Bible. When Samuel's ghost was conjured up, he knew very well who Saul was. When Lazarus was raised from the dead, he didn't seem to have any trouble recognizing his sisters. After Jesus's resurrection, he not only remembered why he had died, but his new body still bore the scars of his death. What is the point of that constant eternal reminder of sin and death if we are just gonna forget what he did for us anyway?

Those examples you give are special cases for whatever reason God had. You still cannot conjure up from Scripture evidence that says we will remember anything from our Earthly life. It is unthinkable that God would allow us to see or remember tragic things that happened in our Earthly life or what has happened with our lost loved ones. I believe the Rev. Scripture I quoted is proof of that.
 
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Armistead14

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Those examples you give are special cases for whatever reason God had. You still cannot conjure up from Scripture evidence that says we will remember anything from our Earthly life. It is unthinkable that God would allow us to see or remember tragic things that happened in our Earthly life or what has happened with our lost loved ones. I believe the Rev. Scripture I quoted is proof of that.

Nor can you conjure up evidence that we won't. It seems either God erases our past from our mind, well, just the bad past or both bad and good? If God erases our good memories, such as those of loved ones, seems were nothing more than robots that won't even know who we were on earth. It is because we accept a place of eternal torture that we have all this confusion. If hell exist few people will go there out of choice, more of culture, if you or I were born in Iran, China, etc, there is a 80% chance we would follow cultural beliefs indoctrinated into us from birth, in fact if you compare population ratios with cultural beliefs, the majority of mankind will be in hell.

Man is failed at birth to make perfect decisions, the fact we have so many religions and denominations proves that. Most decision processes are not ours, but based on culture, genetics, enviroment, etc...Compare a child born in poverty in the ghetto, no father, no love, to a child born with means, love, in church, etc....one is most likely to join a gang to survive, the other more likely to learn and accept Christ. Then compare that to about 80% of the jews in WW2 that loved God, but refused Christ because of cultural beliefs, God will become worse than Hitler to them, even though they loved and prayed to God.

Man being born flawed in nature must somehow make a perfect one decision or he goes o hell regardless of culture born into, the way he was raised, etc. Science has proven most of our emotions,personality and thought patterns are fixed before age 12, but still somehow God is just and perfect love even though he will send the majority of his creation to eternal torture?

I as a parent would take the place of any of my children in hell, love would demand it.

If God erases our memories of loved ones, he would have to erase all our memories. For instance, say my mom was in hell, yet I see others with their mothers in heaven, wouldn't I wonder if I had a mom, where she was, etc. Would heaven be as joyful for me to see others with family in heaven and my family was just absent from my memories? Would'nt I question God what is a mother, did I one and where is she now......what would God say?
 
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seeingeyes

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Nor can you conjure up evidence that we won't. It seems either God erases our past from our mind, well, just the bad past or both bad and good? If God erases our good memories, such as those of loved ones, seems were nothing more than robots that won't even know who we were on earth. It is because we accept a place of eternal torture that we have all this confusion. If hell exist few people will go there out of choice, more of culture, if you or I were born in Iran, China, etc, there is a 80% chance we would follow cultural beliefs indoctrinated into us from birth, in fact if you compare population ratios with cultural beliefs, the majority of mankind will be in hell.

Man is failed at birth to make perfect decisions, the fact we have so many religions and denominations proves that. Most decision processes are not ours, but based on culture, genetics, enviroment, etc...Compare a child born in poverty in the ghetto, no father, no love, to a child born with means, love, in church, etc....one is most likely to join a gang to survive, the other more likely to learn and accept Christ. Then compare that to about 80% of the jews in WW2 that loved God, but refused Christ because of cultural beliefs, God will become worse than Hitler to them, even though they loved and prayed to God.

Man being born flawed in nature must somehow make a perfect one decision or he goes o hell regardless of culture born into, the way he was raised, etc. Science has proven most of our emotions,personality and thought patterns are fixed before age 12, but still somehow God is just and perfect love even though he will send the majority of his creation to eternal torture?

I as a parent would take the place of any of my children in hell, love would demand it.

If God erases our memories of loved ones, he would have to erase all our memories. For instance, say my mom was in hell, yet I see others with their mothers in heaven, wouldn't I wonder if I had a mom, where she was, etc. Would heaven be as joyful for me to see others with family in heaven and my family was just absent from my memories? Would'nt I question God what is a mother, did I one and where is she now......what would God say?

Amen! We are not doing all of this for nothing. God doesn't want us to revert back to an Adam-like status of knowing nothing. Perfection is redemption. Righteousness is rescue.

We who have been forgiven much will love much. Why would the God who is love want to take that away from us?
 
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IisJustMe

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Those examples you give are special cases for whatever reason God had. You still cannot conjure up from Scripture evidence that says we will remember anything from our Earthly life. It is unthinkable that God would allow us to see or remember tragic things that happened in our Earthly life or what has happened with our lost loved ones. I believe the Rev. Scripture I quoted is proof of that.
The Bema Seat is in heaven. Do you think we will see our works tested by fire without remembering them? Nonsense. Read 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 and you will see the evidence you claim can't be "conjured up". In that sense, you're right. It isn't "conjured up" it is there for anyone in tune with the Spirit to read in black and white.
 
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revrobor

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We cannot reason with our human minds God or what He will do in Eternity. Scripture clearly states "there will be no more sorrow or tears". I find it almost silly to say, in effect, "this is what God will do in eternity because this is the way things are here on Earth now". We will be given new bodies. It could be that we will be given new brains (if that's what we use as a control mechanism in eternity). We do not know and we cannot assume what it will be like in eternity based on our experience in this life. There are a few specifics God mentions in Scripture but beyond that it's anybody's guess.
 
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seeingeyes

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We cannot reason with our human minds God or what He will do in Eternity. Scripture clearly states "there will be no more sorrow or tears". I find it almost silly to say, in effect, "this is what God will do in eternity because this is the way things are here on Earth now". We will be given new bodies. It could be that we will be given new brains (if that's what we use as a control mechanism in eternity). We do not know and we cannot assume what it will be like in eternity based on our experience in this life. There are a few specifics God mentions in Scripture but beyond that it's anybody's guess.

No, we have zero certainty about what eternity will be like in a practical sense. But we can base our speculations on God's character, which is shown to us through the scriptures and through His Son and through His Spirit, and which is unchanging.

And I believe that God wiping out the memories of the people He went to such trouble saving would be outside of His character. He wants us to remember that He is the One who rescued us.
 
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ByGraceOnly

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"You still cannot conjure up from Scripture evidence that says we will remember anything from our Earthly life."

The rich man in torment recalled his father and 5 brothers on Earth and recalled their lost spiritual state. He asked that a messenger be sent to warn them of the realities of hell. (Luke 16)

Since an actual name was used, many feel this wasn't a parable but a true story. But even if it was a parable, what was its point then? It portrayed those in the next world as remembering their Earthly lives.
 
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revrobor

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"You still cannot conjure up from Scripture evidence that says we will remember anything from our Earthly life."

The rich man in torment recalled his father and 5 brothers on Earth and recalled their lost spiritual state. He asked that a messenger be sent to warn them of the realities of hell. (Luke 16)

Since an actual name was used, many feel this wasn't a parable but a true story. But even if it was a parable, what was its point then? It portrayed those in the next world as remembering their Earthly lives.

No judgements have taken place so no one is assigned to Hell or eternity with Jesus yet. It is a parable warning to man.
 
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revrobor

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Well, you are shooting down all these passages as "special cases" or mere parables, and you may be right. But I have yet to see one passage that says that we will have our memories wiped. Care to share?

You cannot attempt to reason God or what our life and body will be like in Eternity with our human minds or based on our experience in this life. But the Bible clearly says there will be no sorrow or tears. Call it whatever you want but we will clearly not see or know anything that would make us sad. I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would try to make the case that we will be able to see our lost loved ones in Hell.
 
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seeingeyes

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You cannot attempt to reason God or what our life and body will be like in Eternity with our human minds or based on our experience in this life. But the Bible clearly says there will be no sorrow or tears. Call it whatever you want but we will clearly not see or know anything that would make us sad. I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would try to make the case that we will be able to see our lost loved ones in Hell.

If we can't accept God's plan for Hell, then we can't accept God either. Should God try to cover His tracks like a fugitive so that we won't be able to accuse Him of wrongdoing? Is He just pretending that He is good and just and merciful, and He will have to wipe our memories so that there will be no witness against Him?

Or is it more likely that our idea of what Hell is for is corrupted by bloodthirsty fiction?
 
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revrobor

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If we can't accept God's plan for Hell, then we can't accept God either. Should God try to cover His tracks like a fugitive so that we won't be able to accuse Him of wrongdoing? Is He just pretending that He is good and just and merciful, and He will have to wipe our memories so that there will be no witness against Him?

Or is it more likely that our idea of what Hell is for is corrupted by bloodthirsty fiction?

I don't have any problem accepting God's plan for anything. Do you?
 
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Armistead14

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If we can't accept God's plan for Hell, then we can't accept God either. Should God try to cover His tracks like a fugitive so that we won't be able to accuse Him of wrongdoing? Is He just pretending that He is good and just and merciful, and He will have to wipe our memories so that there will be no witness against Him?

Or is it more likely that our idea of what Hell is for is corrupted by bloodthirsty fiction?


Exactly, it is the doctrine of hell that leaves us in so much mass confusion about numerous issues such as, millions never hearing, children, etc.. and what of loved ones. Either God would have to change our entire emotions so we don't feel hurt or wipe away the memories, but regardless he would have to disconnect us from our earthly emotions of love so we don't hurt.

What parent could be happy in heaven knowing their children were elsewhere being tortured.
 
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packermann

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I know part of this question has been asked before. Your in heaven....wife/father/mother/family member is burning in hell. I've been told that being with God will make me understand and I won't be sad and miss them yet if that's true then how did Satan come to turn his back on God and bring angels down with him? Either being with God is really being at peace or there's a chance that even in Heaven you'll never be at peace.
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It says in Revelation that God will wipe away all our tears. I think it relates to this experience. God is all powerful. He can take away our memory of them if that is what is needed. The word “hell” is in the Greek is “garbage dump” – something that is thrown away and forgotten about.

And maybe that is a little what purgatory is about. Maybe we still cry in purgatory for those who are lost in hell, but eventually God will wipe away our tears in heaven.
Just a thought. I have no Catholic dogma to back this up.
 
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