Questions

[InThePinc]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm always been athiest. I don't know anything about religion so I hope I don't offend anyone with my questions or ignorance. I want to believe in god and I do in a way but there's things that I can't not believe in order to believe god exists.

1. Why are gay people not accepted in most religions? I'm not gay but I have a lot of friends that are. Why are they told that they are sinners and horrible people and unworthy because they love someone who is the same sex. If god created man in the image of himself then surely he made gay people too.

2. Why do new born babies and innocent children die when they haven't even had chance to sin?

3. Why if god created the world did he create Africa and Ethiopia the way it is? Why is that part of the world so badly designed that it can't sustain life and so many people and children are dying from starvation! No child deserves that!

4. I believe in evolution and that is one thing that I can't not believe and I guess that's the one thing that is stopping me believing in god. I can believe that god created everything but I can't ignore that there were dinosaurs roaming the earth before Adam and eve and of course the prehistoric people that evolved from apes. They have skeletons of dinosaurs and of homoerrectus and so on. How can I fit that in with believing in god? Is there a way I can believe both?

There's lots more I have to ask about the bible as I am reading it and intend to read every word of it.[bless and do not curse]

Thanks for your time!

 

[InThePinc]

My name is Chrissy btw and I am 30 and live in Swansea, Wales, uk.

 

[Chilaha]

1. Gay people are not usually accepted because although Christians are not told to judge others, many times we do. I feel that hypocrisy is usually the reason gay people are not invited to religion. But, at the same time I VERY STRONGLY do not approve of being gay. God DID NOT make anyone gay, instead people chose to not have natural sex with women and started wanting each other. (There is a verse above these lines if you search) Also, being gay really makes your relationship with God difficult which is why people do not usually accept Christians.

2. Yes, sometimes I don't understand either. But, here are a few possible explanations:
A. Death of innocent or young kids may just be the result of a broken world. Maybe some child was killed from the result of someone's evil actions

B. The death is used by God to do something big. Many times God will use even the worse situations of life for His purposes.

C. Maybe there is no explanation. It could just be a 100% sad event and there seems to be no positive part about it. But, God has a plan and everything that happens is for a reason. Until we see Him again we will not know the answer.

3. God didn't create those countries that way. Those countries became that way due to the error and mistakes of humans.

4. Evolution = false
We did not come from apes, in the Bible we see that God created man and woman. Not, male and female apes who eventually became people. Evolution is also not a proven fact, therefore there ii is not an 100% truth.

I hope this helps!
Chilaha

 

[ebia]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm always been athiest. I don't know anything about religion so I hope I don't offend anyone with my questions or ignorance. I want to believe in god and I do in a way but there's things that I can't not believe in order to believe god exists.

1. Why are gay people not accepted in most religions? I'm not gay but I have a lot of friends that are. Why are they told that they are sinners and horrible people and unworthy because they love someone who is the same sex. If god created man in the image of himself then surely he made gay people too.

People always tend to distrust difference and find minorities to demonise.
But on the other hand Christianity doesn't say we are perfectly in God's image. We are marred by the effects of a creation we have messed up by our own idolatory - each of us in different ways.

2. Why do new born babies and innocent children die when they haven't even had chance to sin?

The world is less individualistic than your question allows for - my failure has consequences far beyond myself. Our collective failure effects everything.

3. Why if god created the world did he create Africa and Ethiopia the way it is? Why is that part of the world so badly designed that it can't sustain life and so many people and children are dying from starvation! No child deserves that!

Most of the world could sustain life, and people don't live in the bits that can't. It's human failure that makes much of the world a disaster more than physical geography.

4. I believe in evolution and that is one thing that I can't not believe and I guess that's the one thing that is stopping me believing in god. I can believe that god created everything but I can't ignore that there were dinosaurs roaming the earth before Adam and eve and of course the prehistoric people that evolved from apes. They have skeletons of dinosaurs and of homoerrectus and so on. How can I fit that in with believing in god? Is there a way I can believe both?

Most Christians do believe both.

 

[ChristianT]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm always been athiest. I don't know anything about religion so I hope I don't offend anyone with my questions or ignorance. I want to believe in god and I do in a way but there's things that I can't not believe in order to believe god exists.

1. Why are gay people not accepted in most religions? I'm not gay but I have a lot of friends that are. Why are they told that they are sinners and horrible people and unworthy because they love someone who is the same sex. If god created man in the image of himself then surely he made gay people too.

Chilaha's answer.

2. Why do new born babies and innocent children die when they haven't even had chance to sin?

Chilaha's answer.

3. Why if god created the world did he create Africa and Ethiopia the way it is? Why is that part of the world so badly designed that it can't sustain life and so many people and children are dying from starvation! No child deserves that!

He created those continents long before people lived on them! The people, out of human choice or human force, live there. I agree, of course, no child deserves to endure the harsh recoils of human sin.

4. I believe in evolution and that is one thing that I can't not believe and I guess that's the one thing that is stopping me believing in god. I can believe that god created everything but I can't ignore that there were dinosaurs roaming the earth before Adam and eve and of course the prehistoric people that evolved from apes. They have skeletons of dinosaurs and of homoerrectus and so on. How can I fit that in with believing in god? Is there a way I can believe both?

Yes, you can believe both. Christianity =/= anti_science. So long as your "belief" in the scientific "fact" of evolution doesn't cause a brother or sister in the faith to lose faith by your actions, it is permissible. One way to fit it in is to realize the absence of dinosaurs in the creation account. Yes, they may be considered a beast that roams the planet, but it's scientifically proven something about the Genesis account is not literal, be it the 24-hour days, or the 6000-year old earth. Of course, I can also see YEC's claims about embedded age, distance, and history; but that's more of a philosophical issue where God apparently went to such great measures to test scientists' faith.

There's lots more I have to ask about the bible as I am reading it and intend to read every word of it.
Thanks for your time!

That's wonderful! I want you to know you'll be in my prayers!

 

[FundiMentalist]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm always been athiest. I don't know anything about religion so I hope I don't offend anyone with my questions or ignorance. I want to believe in god and I do in a way but there's things that I can't not believe in order to believe god exists.

Hi. I believe it's spelled "atheist."

1. Why are gay people not accepted in most religions? I'm not gay but I have a lot of friends that are. Why are they told that they are sinners and horrible people and unworthy because they love someone who is the same sex. If god created man in the image of himself then surely he made gay people too.

Probably because prior to the last few centuries there weren't enough excess calories to go to things not directly related to propagation of the genes. Hard to say. I've read a number of "just so" stories.

2. Why do new born babies and innocent children die when they haven't even had chance to sin?

They die because their hearts stop beating and brains stop working for a variety of reasons.

3. Why if god created the world did he create Africa and Ethiopia the way it is? Why is that part of the world so badly designed that it can't sustain life and so many people and children are dying from starvation! No child deserves that!

Meh. Antarctica's even worse. I'm not sure you understand how evolution works. These "hardships" contribute to natural selection and "strengthen" the genetic composition.

If these children don't deserve that, then there's something you and I can do about it and I'd invite you in helping out. I wish I could do more.

4. I believe in evolution and that is one thing that I can't not believe and I guess that's the one thing that is stopping me believing in god. I can believe that god created everything but I can't ignore that there were dinosaurs roaming the earth before Adam and eve and of course the prehistoric people that evolved from apes. They have skeletons of dinosaurs and of homoerrectus and so on. How can I fit that in with believing in god? Is there a way I can believe both?

Expand your imagination. You could believe in the God of Einstein, Spinoza, Tillich, even the Roman Catholic Church and still believe in evolution.

There's lots more I have to ask about the bible as I am reading it and intend to read every word of it.[bless and do not curse]

Thanks for your time!

Enjoy.

 

[InThePinc]

Thank you everyone who has messaged me! I really appreciate it. I understand a lot of the answers and I'm glad I can believe in evolution and still believe in god. The one thing I can't believe though that it is wrong to love someone and be with some of the same sex. And I don't believe for one second that someone would choose to be gay. I have a lot of gay friends and it's never been "Ive decided to be gay!". When they first realise that they have different feelings than is perceived to be normal in society, feelings for the someone of the same sex it freaks them out. They don't want to be different to their peers and they are afraid of being bullied, ridiculed and rejected by people who are homophobic. Some go through the process of telling their friends and family, others bury their feelings and live a life that makes them miserable. And even if they are able to be themselves they have to face prejudice, judgement and homophobia every day of their lives. Nobody would ever choose to put themselves through that if they didn't have to. I just can't believe that it's wrong! I've read up to exodus 20 of the bible - gen 19:36 - "Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father" surely having sex with your own daughters/father is just as sinful if not more so and yet it's in the bible and god did not punish them for it!

 

[ebia]

Thank you everyone who has messaged me! I really appreciate it. I understand a lot of the answers and I'm glad I can believe in evolution and still believe in god. The one thing I can't believe though that it is wrong to love someone and be with some of the same sex. And I don't believe for one second that someone would choose to be gay. I have a lot of gay friends and it's never been "Ive decided to be gay!". When they first realise that they have different feelings than is perceived to be normal in society, feelings for the someone of the same sex it freaks them out. They don't want to be different to their peers and they are afraid of being bullied, ridiculed and rejected by people who are homophobic. Some go through the process of telling their friends and family, others bury their feelings and live a life that makes them miserable. And even if they are able to be themselves they have to face prejudice, judgement and homophobia every day of their lives. Nobody would ever choose to put themselves through that if they didn't have to. I just can't believe that it's wrong! I've read up to exodus 20 of the bible - gen 19:36 - "Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father" surely having sex with your own daughters/father is just as sinful if not more so and yet it's in the bible and god did not punish them for it!

God didn't say it was okay either. The Old Testament narratives don't work as an example of good behavior.

Most (all) of us desire things that contrary to God's purposes. On the other hand there are a range of Christian views on homosexuality - its just that the CF forum rules don't allow half of that range to be expressed here.

Unless its a decision you have to make because you are gay why do you need to resolve this one?

 

[Publius]

1. Why are gay people not accepted in most religions?

In Christianity, we have the Bible, which teaches us that no unrepentent sinner is accepted by Christ.

Why are they told that they are sinners

Because they're sinners.

If god created man in the image of himself then surely he made gay people too.

He did. He made all sinners. That doesn't mean He turns a blind eye to sin.

2. Why do new born babies and innocent children die when they haven't even had chance to sin?

Who says they haven't had a chance to sin? If you don't believe little children can sin, go to a playground sometime. You'll see as much sin there as you will in any honky tonk on Saturday night.

For instance, you'll see the dishonoring of parents: "No! I don't wanna go!"
You'll see lying: "I didn't do it!"
You'll see coveting: "I wanna play with it!"
You'll see stealing: "Get lost, shrimp! It's my turn now!"
You'll see murder: "You dummy!" (Remember, Jesus said you only have to be unjustly angry with someone in order to be guilty of murder in the heart.)

3. Why if god created the world did he create Africa and Ethiopia the way it is? Why is that part of the world so badly designed that it can't sustain life and so many people and children are dying from starvation! No child deserves that!

First, who says God created them to be that way? The Bible describes parts of Africa as being lush and fertile before the Fall.

Second, why don't children deserve that?

4. I believe in evolution and that is one thing that I can't not believe and I guess that's the one thing that is stopping me believing in god.

No it's not. It's just a convenient excuse. The real reason you "can't believe in God" is that you love your sin too much. And it isn't even that you don't believe in God, but that you don't want to submit to God.

I can believe that god created everything but I can't ignore that there were dinosaurs roaming the earth before Adam and eve and of course the prehistoric people that evolved from apes.

How do you know this? Where is the evidence of these "pre-historic people that (sic) evolved from apes"?

They have skeletons of dinosaurs and of homoerrectus and so on. How can I fit that in with believing in god? Is there a way I can believe both?

No. Evolution is at odds with the Gospel.

 

[InThePinc]

Because I'm trying to figure out wether I can believe there is a god or not. I have certain beliefs and I'm trying to figure out where they fit in to a religion I may follow. I don't know if there is one that is gay friendly or not. The gay thing is just one of the things that I have an issue with.

Is there a religion where you can believe that being gay is fine and not a sin? I have a homophobic and racist father and I guess I've grown up listening to some disgusting comments about people just because they love someone who is of the same sex or because of the colour of their skin. I'm not ok with that and will bring any children I have up in the future to know that it is wrong to judge someone because of these things. I want to introduce them to religion however I don't want to expose them to the belief that it is not ok to be themselves if they don't have any desire to be with someone of the opposite sex. Is there a religion that doesn't judge like this? My dad was brought up catholic and he's told me how judgemental the catholic religion is and this is the only thing I rally know about religion.

Thanks for your time x

 

[InThePinc]

In Christianity, we have the Bible, which teaches us that no unrepentent sinner is accepted by Christ.



Because they're sinners.



He did. He made all sinners. That doesn't mean He turns a blind eye to sin.



Who says they haven't had a chance to sin? If you don't believe little children can sin, go to a playground sometime. You'll see as much sin there as you will in any honky tonk on Saturday night.

For instance, you'll see the dishonoring of parents: "No! I don't wanna go!"
You'll see lying: "I didn't do it!"
You'll see coveting: "I wanna play with it!"
You'll see stealing: "Get lost, shrimp! It's my turn now!"
You'll see murder: "You dummy!" (Remember, Jesus said you only have to be unjustly angry with someone in order to be guilty of murder in the heart.)



First, who says God created them to be that way? The Bible describes parts of Africa as being lush and fertile before the Fall.

Second, why don't children deserve that?



No it's not. It's just a convenient excuse. The real reason you "can't believe in God" is that you love your sin too much. And it isn't even that you don't believe in God, but that you don't want to submit to God.



How do you know this? Where is the evidence of these "pre-historic people that (sic) evolved from apes"?



No. Evolution is at odds with the Gospel.

This is exactly why I don't submit to god because i could never follow a religion that has these beliefs! Some babies are still born they had no chance to sin! Children are children and yes they can sin but come on you can't honestly believe a child or anyone for that matter deserves to die for a sin can you? People like that don't really exist do they?

And as for telling me I won't submit or I believe in evolution because I like my sin too much HOW DARE YOU!! You judged me straight away! This is what I know of religion! Judgemental [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s like this!! Well thank you very much for confirming what I was expecting!! Religion = judgement and that you can stick up your judgemental [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!!

 

[Publius]

This is exactly why I don't submit to god because i could never follow a religion that has these beliefs! Some babies are still born they had no chance to sin! Children are children and yes they can sin but come on you can't honestly believe a child or anyone for that matter deserves to die for a sin can you? People like that don't really exist do they?

Yes, I do believe the Bible when it says we're all deserving of death.

And as for telling me I won't submit or I believe in evolution because I like my sin too much HOW DARE YOU!!

I dare because you brought it up and because the very first words out of your mouth were about how you wanted to reconcile your support for the sin of homosexuality with belief in God.

You judged me straight away!

I didn't so much judge you as much as I applied what the Bible says about the unegenerate to you.

Religion = judgement and that you can stick up your judgemental [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!!

So is that what you're going to say when you stand before God and fac judgement?

Because I'm trying to figure out wether I can believe there is a god or not. I have certain beliefs and I'm trying to figure out where they fit in to a religion I may follow. I don't know if there is one that is gay friendly or not. The gay thing is just one of the things that I have an issue with.

Is there a religion where you can believe that being gay is fine and not a sin? I have a homophobic and racist father and I guess I've grown up listening to some disgusting comments about people just because they love someone who is of the same sex or because of the colour of their skin. I'm not ok with that and will bring any children I have up in the future to know that it is wrong to judge someone because of these things. I want to introduce them to religion however I don't want to expose them to the belief that it is not ok to be themselves if they don't have any desire to be with someone of the opposite sex. Is there a religion that doesn't judge like this? My dad was brought up catholic and he's told me how judgemental the catholic religion is and this is the only thing I rally know about religion.

Thanks for your time x

Therein lies you problem. You're not looking for God. You're looking for a build-it-yourself deity who will agree with you and think like you do.

Can't help you there. I know they have little stores in the mall where you can build your own doll and a place at Citizens Bank Park where you can build your own Phanatic doll. But as far as building your own little god, I'm afraid you're on your own.

Now, if you'd like me to tell you about the One True and Living God, I'll be happy to, but I'll warn you right now that you won't like Him.

 

[FundiMentalist]

It's OK to be Christian and be gay.

There are many such people and I'm sure you could easily find a congregation in which you'd be warmly welcomed.

Have you considered the Episcopal church for instance?

 

[drich0150]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm always been athiest.
I don't know anything about religion so I hope I don't offend anyone with my questions or ignorance. I want to believe in god and I do in a way but there's things that I can't not believe in order to believe god exists.

1. Why are gay people not accepted in most religions?

Because Christianity defines Sex outside the confines of Marriage a sin.

Why are they told that they are sinners

Because the bible/God defines sexual activity outside the sanctity of the marriage covenant a sin.

and horrible people

We are not told this.

and unworthy because they love someone who is the same sex.

Same sex, opposite sex all falls under the same category, if it is outside the confines or parameters that God defines as a Marriage.

If god created man in the image of himself then surely he made gay people too.

We are all born unto sin. The gay man gets no special pass. We must all repent of sin. Not just the homosexual.

2. Why do new born babies and innocent children die when they haven't even had chance to sin?

The death of this body is not the punishment for sin. In God's eyes our death in this life is not a "bad" thing. Just because you see something as a crime against Humanity does not mean God is bound by your judgment.

3. Why if god created the world did he create Africa and Ethiopia the way it is? Why is that part of the world so badly designed that it can't sustain life and so many people and children are dying from starvation! No child deserves that!

Then have them move. This is the natural order of things. If land is not sustainable then we have to move, perish or learn to adapt. (A student of evolution understands this, for it is evolution at work.)

The otherway you can look at it is if you have it on your heart to help those people then it is what you have been called to do. So help, rather than appease your conscious and place blame back on God.

4. I believe in evolution and that is one thing that I can't not believe and I guess that's the one thing that is stopping me believing in god. I can believe that god created everything but I can't ignore that there were dinosaurs roaming the earth before Adam and eve and of course the prehistoric people that evolved from apes. They have skeletons of dinosaurs and of homoerrectus and so on. How can I fit that in with believing in god? Is there a way I can believe both?

Something I wrote a while back:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7643307/

There's lots more I have to ask about the bible as I am reading it and intend to read every word of it.[bless and do not curse]

I look forward your other questions.

 

[GrayAngel]

Hello, Chrissy. I see that others have already answered your questions, so to avoid echoing what has already been said, I'll just answer your objections.

Because I'm trying to figure out wether I can believe there is a god or not. I have certain beliefs and I'm trying to figure out where they fit in to a religion I may follow. I don't know if there is one that is gay friendly or not. The gay thing is just one of the things that I have an issue with.

Religion is about changing people. Don't you think it's problematic choosing a religion that fits the beliefs you already have? What would be the purpose of that?

Is there a religion where you can believe that being gay is fine and not a sin? I have a homophobic and racist father and I guess I've grown up listening to some disgusting comments about people just because they love someone who is of the same sex or because of the colour of their skin. I'm not ok with that and will bring any children I have up in the future to know that it is wrong to judge someone because of these things. I want to introduce them to religion however I don't want to expose them to the belief that it is not ok to be themselves if they don't have any desire to be with someone of the opposite sex. Is there a religion that doesn't judge like this? My dad was brought up catholic and he's told me how judgemental the catholic religion is and this is the only thing I rally know about religion.

Thanks for your time x

Christ loved the outcasts of society, including the prostitutes. He did this, not because He agreed with what they were doing, but because He loves unconditionally. He doesn't expect us to have our lives in order before He will pay attention to us.

Homosexuality is a sin. This does not, however, make it right to judge them. All people have sin in their lives. Homosexual sin isn't any worse than heterosexual sin. The Bible tells us to love everyone, even our enemies. Gay people are generally a lot easier to love than enemies.

 

[GrayAngel]

Okay. I couldn't resist.

1. Why are gay people not accepted in most religions? I'm not gay but I have a lot of friends that are. Why are they told that they are sinners and horrible people and unworthy because they love someone who is the same sex. If god created man in the image of himself then surely he made gay people too.

The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, but it does not say that gay people are "horrible people." They are sinners, just like everyone else. If they should become Christian, then they should want to fight against their natural desire to sin. I don't believe that a homosexual could be taught to become a heterosexual, but they learn to accept their homosexual thoughts and desires and rule over them.

2. Why do new born babies and innocent children die when they haven't even had chance to sin?

This is a controversial issue with Christians. Children do have a sin nature, but this does not necessarily mean they're guilty of sin and don't go to Heaven.

All people must die sometime. If it's Heaven we're destined for, then there's nothing in this life that we're going to miss. Everything is better in the life that comes after. So should I feel sorry for the baby that dies a few days after birth? No. I believe they'd be in Heaven, and they're in a much better situation than what we're in. My sympathy would belong to the family and friends who are still living.

3. Why if god created the world did he create Africa and Ethiopia the way it is? Why is that part of the world so badly designed that it can't sustain life and so many people and children are dying from starvation! No child deserves that!

He didn't create the world from the start with starving children in it. People lived on the earth and they set themselves up into environments that were inhospitable to them. But Jesus gave us a command before going back to Heaven. "If you love me, take care of my sheep."

It's our job to help those in need. Giving to the poor is one of the most heavily stressed acts of faith mentioned in the New Testament.

4. I believe in evolution and that is one thing that I can't not believe and I guess that's the one thing that is stopping me believing in god. I can believe that god created everything but I can't ignore that there were dinosaurs roaming the earth before Adam and eve and of course the prehistoric people that evolved from apes. They have skeletons of dinosaurs and of homoerrectus and so on. How can I fit that in with believing in god? Is there a way I can believe both?

All of us do not believe that the six-day creation story is literal. It doesn't have to be literal to be true.

However, I must say that the evidence for "prehistoric people" is non-existent. It's based on fossils that are nowhere near complete, and on the assumptions of people who think they already know the answers.

There's lots more I have to ask about the bible as I am reading it and intend to read every word of it.[bless and do not curse]

Thanks for your time!

I certainly encourage you to read the Bible yourself and with an open mind. Even most Christians haven't read every word of the Bible, so I would be impressed if you proved to have that kind of discipline. Please do let us know if you have any questions.

 

[InThePinc]

Thank you very much for replying! As I said I don't know anything about religion or god or jesus. All the things I've heard about religion was from my dad who was brought up catholic and hated how he was treated in that faith and turned his back on it as soon as he could. I'm not blaming god for anything I'm simply asking questions in order to learn. I understand that if god exists then he has a plan and we can't even begin to understand it until we get to heaven. I can accept that and do. I don't feel sorry for the babies that die because I know they go to a better place and it's the family thats left behind I feel for. I jjust can't be a part of a religion that judges people for being gay or any other thing they consider a sin. If its just the act of sex before marriage is a sin then that I can accept but not that people love someone of the same sex. I'm getting married in 4 days and we want children and I'd love to bring them up in a faith but I also want to teach them that its ok to be who they are even if they happen to be gay, that it's wrong to judge someone else and to accept people for who they are!

 

[InThePinc]

Is that really so bad?

 

[ebia]

Is that really so bad?

No

 

[InThePinc]

Thank you. What faith are you in? X