Is Homosexuality a Choice?

[Grace51]

Well, no one actually said anyone was "stuck in sin". That's something you came up with.

Regardless, we sin all the time, all our lives. I could easily define that as "stuck in sin."

Sin is a condition we're born into. It's the reason we die.

Is it always love to "rebuke" homosexuals? Could there sometimes be other motivators?

listen you are wasting you time, you know that? if you look back through the posts. you'd realize not only they are doing EVERYTHING they can to make it ALL about rebuking. but they keep twisting words to make it sounds like it is not ok to do lovingly or compassionately or christlikely.

All at the same time keep using the vague words i treat them rather nicely etc etc

only now that woman is back tracking a bit by saying you dont rebuke all the time
'

 

[Blessedj01]

listen you are wasting you time, you know that? if you look back through the posts. you'd realize not only they are doing EVERYTHING they can to make it ALL about rebuking. but they keep twisting words to make it sounds like it is not ok to do lovingly or compassionately or christlikely.

All at the same time keep using the vague words i treat them rather nicely etc etc

only now that woman is back tracking a bit by saying you dont rebuke all the time
'

The only point I'm trying to make is that we focus too much on homosexuality, when it's just one form of sin. Anyway, everyone carry on.

 

[ivanthegood]

i am not under the impression every word Jesus said are kind and loving.

i am under the impression many of you just want to use various excuses to point your fingers at the gays. not because you really have their best interest at heart

i myself has been confronted by my Christian friends before in a harsh manner. but that never had any negative effect on me, i know they did it out of love.

yes it is true, God is ultimately the one will bring them to salvation.

but doesnt mean our behaviours cant make it harder for them

we are suppose to be ambassadors for Christ.

if you want to point fingers, take it somewhere else. esp if your behaviours will turn them away from Christ. in those situations. keep those behaviours to yourself. God word are not meant to be used to turn people away from His salvation.

but do not hide it behide the facade of caring about gays.

it is your inner homophobia that you are really serving, you just want to use God word to justify it.

as I said you would not know how to deal with a prophet sent by God, their message would come across harsh to you and lacking in the love and gentleness you feel is the only way God communicates, yet would they not still be sent from God, would you rebuke one of Gods prophets today if he came calling? (demanding) that homosexuals repent for the end is near!

The voice of a prophet is historically always rejected by those who think they know the will of God, when i hear someone saying leave the homosexual life, turn from sin and follow Jesus, i hear the voice of God behind that statement, whether they feel its a choice or not a choice makes absolutely no difference because the end result will still be the same

 

[medieval_lady83]

listen you are wasting you time, you know that? if you look back through the posts. you'd realize not only they are doing EVERYTHING they can to make it ALL about rebuking. but they keep twisting words to make it sounds like it is not ok to do lovingly or compassionately or christlikely.

All at the same time keep using the vague words i treat them rather nicely etc etc

only now that woman is back tracking a bit by saying you dont rebuke all the time
'

I think talking to you is pointless. If not for my love of debating important topics in general, I would have stopped responding to your foolishness and lack of discernment long ago.

You say that people who sin have no right to preach the gospel to homosexuals. Does that mean you do not sin ever? We already know the answer to that, so you're being a hypocrite. By your own standard, you are not fit to preach the gospel to them.

You say that you and others have a right to preach the gospel to them because you truly do it out of love, where as others on this thread do it out of hatred. We do not hate gay people. Just because we don't evangelize exactly the way you do it, doesn't mean we hate them. How prideful of you to think that only you and those that evangelize like you are truly loving homosexuals. Can you look into our hearts, and see our motives, and whether or not we truly love someone? No. Do you know us? Have you ever seen the way we interact with homosexuals in person? Have you ever seen the way I treat them, heard the way I talk to them? No. No. and No. Have you ever seen anyone on this thread say that we should share the gospel in an unloving or unChristlike way? NO. If so, please copy and paste their comment, so I can see this hatred of which you speak.

Preaching the gospel is not just about homosexuality. No one ever said it was. But this thread is about homosexuality, so the comments are on that subject. Just because someone preaches the gospel to homosexuals doesn't mean they are unwilling to acknowledge their own sins before God, and repent. You and many others are making all kinds of judgments about your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that are totally without proof. Most likely you are attributing the bad behavior of some Christians to the people on this thread who have not done or said the same things.

Really. I want to see some clear examples of hatred that we are being accused of. Show me the video clip where I beat up a gay teenager. Show me the transcript of the conversation I had with the lesbian woman, where I was unkind to her. Put my heart on display on a big monitor and point out all of my motives, intentions, loves, hates, etc. Look for proof of my hatred of homosexuality, and what it does to people, and you will find plenty. Just like you will find proof that I hate murder, rape, domestic violence, etc. But if you are looking for proof that I hate the person who experiences same sex attraction, you will not find it. It does not exist.

In high school and college, I remember having 2 guy friends who were gay, and one friend who was bisexual. But I did not mistreat them in any way. In recent years the only homosexuals that I encounter that I have actually had a chance to get to know, have been coworkers, and not only was I not hateful towards them, but they liked me, and enjoyed talking with me. There have even been gay men that I have had a crush on. Thinking, if he wasn't gay, I would have no reservations about being in a relationship with him, because in other ways, they were great guys.

Again, as I stated before, God has not given me the gift of evangelism. I am comfortable speaking with other believers about these issues, and if religion comes up in conversation with non-believers, then I do share what the bible teaches. But I am not going around preaching the gospel, because that is not personally what I have been called and equipped to do. (Though I do pray that unbelievers of all kinds come to know the Lord.) Even though I know I'm not gifted to be an evangelist, I still feel disappointed sometimes, thinking that I missed opportunities to share the gospel with them. Yes, I was nice to them, and yes, they will remember me as a nice Christian. But I didn't present the gospel with them. Being nice is great. It is a way to love your neighbor as yourself. But it is no substitute for sharing the message of salvation. So I feel like I should be doing more. It would be interesting to see how many of those people would have liked me if I had presented the gospel to them. If I had told them that they were born sinful, that their lifestyle was sinful, and that they like me needed Jesus, or they would go to hell. I wonder if they would have thought I was still a nice Christian girl. My guess is they would have been offended, no matter how I worded it or timed it. I wonder how many of my friends on facebook would still be my friends if they understood all that I believe. I bet you, if I went on my wall, and did a post saying, just for the record, these are my beliefs as a Christian, and I just laid them all out, I'm sure the numbers would decrease drastically.

I say all of that to say, anyone accusing me of hating or mistreating gays is so wrong, it's not even funny. My guess is that God would want me to be more bold and confident, not "mind my own business" as some have suggested that I do. Seeing the lost saved is everyone's business, even if evangelism isn't our calling.

Stop beating up your brothers and sisters for simply agreeing with God and his word. That too is sin. And stop verbally attacking us for things we haven't even done or said. It's getting old.

 

[Zanting]

Christians here that have answered this question based on scripture...Gods natural order...Gods Holy word have been accused of hatred, being homophobes, being judgemental, and the argument continues on and on and on... If Christians answer a question based on scripture like they would for any other sin that may be questioned, do you really believe they are judging or hating anyone. How can anyone here who continues to make those accusations know the heart of the person who is posting. They certainly don't know mine. The only thing that making accusations against other Christians accomplishes is anger, resentment and defensive behaviours as has been evidenced throughout this entire forum.

Again then, desention among Christians is not Gods way...understanding Gods law is, but it doesn't appear that many here want to allow that to happen. Instead they take apart what others are saying, split hairs, take things out of context, read between the lines and make one accusation after the other. Why? This posting should have ended a long time ago, because there really is not a whole lot that can be said about it that wasn't covered in the first few posts.

You do know that...

Israeal is poised for war against Iran...gas and food prices are rising at an alarming rate. Our American economy is a mess, the dollar is losing its status and value around the world, with some countries not even accepting it anymore. America has lost face world wide and is not immune to war happening right here.

Talking to, and praying with others about Gods salvation should be the most important thing on Christians minds. Let God deal with the sinner and whatever their sin may be. God works with the mind and heart of those who are truly seeking Him and will show them sin. We should only be concerned with spreading Jesus sacrifice on the cross and salvations eternal blessing in order to bring Gods children home.

And I know that there are many views regarding prophecy and scripture and Christians everywhere have been saying Jesus is coming soon for years, but look around at the world and what is happening, it is esay to see just how unstable the world is. Prophecy or no prophecy, peolpe around the world are afraid of the instability in the world right now. Why is so much time being wasted here when we should be carrying out our duty to spread Gods message?

 

[Neogaia777]

That depends upon whether you believe in choices or not, if your a Christian you probably do believe in choices.

I think for most it's probably a choice they choose later on in life, I do not know whether or not one can be born that way or not. I don't even know if defining our sexuality comes into play in our lives until after one hits puberty.

"Children" seem to have absolutely no knowledge of sex or anything to do with it until after this stage of "puberty". Sexual sin is the worst to try and define, and I think we know very little about it

God does not approve of homosexuals, but the world does and who can say anything against them, really. I feel I have to have some kind of justification to be able to discriminate against homosexuals, and so far, I don't have it so I can't and I won't, until I do.

 

[Kensington7]

The only point I'm trying to make is that we focus too much on homosexuality, when it's just one form of sin. Anyway, everyone carry on.

I hate to point out the very obvious, that this topic is about Homosexuality. So here, it would be predominate in the discussion to discuss the issue of it being sin and the need to witness, tell them, preach or teach them about God and his judgments on the whole thing.

I don't focus on it really, I live my life, going about my business, Worshipping God, raising 7 kids and being a gramma, loving my husband, being good to my neighbors.

But, yeah when the subject comes up, I call it sin, I stand my ground, I trust God and the Word given to us for the teaching and admonishment of the body of Christ. I can't allow myself to get all spun up in "you" may think it's OK, or not a sin, so I should be silent.

I was not called to that by God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth, Author of my salvation. Not even close.

 

[Grace51]

I think talking to you is pointless. If not for my love of debating important topics in general, I would have stopped responding to your foolishness and lack of discernment long ago.

You say that people who sin have no right to preach the gospel to homosexuals. Does that mean you do not sin ever? We already know the answer to that, so you're being a hypocrite. By your own standard, you are not fit to preach the gospel to them.

You say that you and others have a right to preach the gospel to them because you truly do it out of love, where as others on this thread do it out of hatred. We do not hate gay people. Just because we don't evangelize exactly the way you do it, doesn't mean we hate them. How prideful of you to think that only you and those that evangelize like you are truly loving homosexuals. Can you look into our hearts, and see our motives, and whether or not we truly love someone? No. Do you know us? Have you ever seen the way we interact with homosexuals in person? Have you ever seen the way I treat them, heard the way I talk to them? No. No. and No. Have you ever seen anyone on this thread say that we should share the gospel in an unloving or unChristlike way? NO. If so, please copy and paste their comment, so I can see this hatred of which you speak.

Preaching the gospel is not just about homosexuality. No one ever said it was. But this thread is about homosexuality, so the comments are on that subject. Just because someone preaches the gospel to homosexuals doesn't mean they are unwilling to acknowledge their own sins before God, and repent. You and many others are making all kinds of judgments about your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that are totally without proof. Most likely you are attributing the bad behavior of some Christians to the people on this thread who have not done or said the same things.

Really. I want to see some clear examples of hatred that we are being accused of. Show me the video clip where I beat up a gay teenager. Show me the transcript of the conversation I had with the lesbian woman, where I was unkind to her. Put my heart on display on a big monitor and point out all of my motives, intentions, loves, hates, etc. Look for proof of my hatred of homosexuality, and what it does to people, and you will find plenty. Just like you will find proof that I hate murder, rape, domestic violence, etc. But if you are looking for proof that I hate the person who experiences same sex attraction, you will not find it. It does not exist.

In high school and college, I remember having 2 guy friends who were gay, and one friend who was bisexual. But I did not mistreat them in any way. In recent years the only homosexuals that I encounter that I have actually had a chance to get to know, have been coworkers, and not only was I not hateful towards them, but they liked me, and enjoyed talking with me. There have even been gay men that I have had a crush on. Thinking, if he wasn't gay, I would have no reservations about being in a relationship with him, because in other ways, they were great guys.

Again, as I stated before, God has not given me the gift of evangelism. I am comfortable speaking with other believers about these issues, and if religion comes up in conversation with non-believers, then I do share what the bible teaches. But I am not going around preaching the gospel, because that is not personally what I have been called and equipped to do. (Though I do pray that unbelievers of all kinds come to know the Lord.) Even though I know I'm not gifted to be an evangelist, I still feel disappointed sometimes, thinking that I missed opportunities to share the gospel with them. Yes, I was nice to them, and yes, they will remember me as a nice Christian. But I didn't present the gospel with them. Being nice is great. It is a way to love your neighbor as yourself. But it is no substitute for sharing the message of salvation. So I feel like I should be doing more. It would be interesting to see how many of those people would have liked me if I had presented the gospel to them. If I had told them that they were born sinful, that their lifestyle was sinful, and that they like me needed Jesus, or they would go to hell. I wonder if they would have thought I was still a nice Christian girl. My guess is they would have been offended, no matter how I worded it or timed it. I wonder how many of my friends on facebook would still be my friends if they understood all that I believe. I bet you, if I went on my wall, and did a post saying, just for the record, these are my beliefs as a Christian, and I just laid them all out, I'm sure the numbers would decrease drastically.

I say all of that to say, anyone accusing me of hating or mistreating gays is so wrong, it's not even funny. My guess is that God would want me to be more bold and confident, not "mind my own business" as some have suggested that I do. Seeing the lost saved is everyone's business, even if evangelism isn't our calling.

Stop beating up your brothers and sisters for simply agreeing with God and his word. That too is sin. And stop verbally attacking us for things we haven't even done or said. It's getting old.

i dont have time to deal with you right now. i have too many assessments due soon. but you'll definitely hear my response on this one.

 

[Grace51]

I hate to point out the very obvious, that this topic is about Homosexuality. So here, it would be predominate in the discussion to discuss the issue of it being sin and the need to witness, tell them, preach or teach them about God and his judgments on the whole thing.

I don't focus on it really, I live my life, going about my business, Worshipping God, raising 7 kids and being a gramma, loving my husband, being good to my neighbors.

But, yeah when the subject comes up, I call it sin, I stand my ground, I trust God and the Word given to us for the teaching and admonishment of the body of Christ. I can't allow myself to get all spun up in "you" may think it's OK, or not a sin, so I should be silent.

I was not called to that by God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth, Author of my salvation. Not even close.

/

 

[Neogaia777]

I haven't seen one, not one, "logical" argument as to why or not Gays should be denied certain rights. If you really want to discriminate against homosexuals, then your going to have to come up with some logical arguments, such as, maybe some reasons as to why you think they shouldn't raise children, be able to get married, ect. I don't approve of it personally, but I don't know if I could deny someone elses right to be gay.

 

[Kensington7]

I haven't seen one, not one, "logical" argument as to why or not Gays should be denied certain rights. If you really want to discriminate against homosexuals, then your going to have to come up with some logical arguments, such as, maybe some reasons as to why you think they shouldn't raise children, be able to get married, ect. I don't approve of it personally, but I don't know if I could deny someone elses right to be gay.

We are not discussing "right" for anyone. We are discussing as to whether or not God has declared it to be sin and forbid it. And He has. We are discussing as to whether or not God has set down a judgment for eternity for those who practice homosexuality without repentance before he returns. And He has.

Giving them rights? I assume you mean marriage? To that God says this, "What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul". We can all just stop voting and give them marriage as a right, but it won't change that God says they will lose their souls.

BTW... I don't know exactly how you missed seeing that this is EXACTLY what we have been discussing. I can't think of any more of a LOGICAL argument that you ask for other than "God said"...

 

[Kensington7]

a while ago, on a diffirent thread. another christian pointed out quite eloquently why christians are particular judgemental towards gays.

it is because it is one sin most of them and their loved ones would never be tempted with. hence it is easy to impose that double standard

i have had enough of your rubbish about how God words says it is a sin hence you have the right to say it in what ever you want, even in a way that hurts others.

how would you feel if i come up to you and tell you boldly obsesity/gluttony is a sin also and you need to stop using your body like a garbage disposal, esp our body supposed to be Gods Holy temple.

well, according to your logic, since God did say gluttony is a sin, and i will not be deprived of MINE right of calling a spade other than anything than a spade???

treat others how YOU wanted to be treated.

people like you just want to use God words to justify your own self righteouness and judgments towards others and trying to twist Gods word so you do not have to repent.

dont expect me to take anything i have said in this post BACK you deserve to get some of the things you INSISTS dishes out the gays.

do whatever you want, i am NOT intimidated by you to the SLIGHTEST.

i have been in church long enough to know your type. old ladies who think just because you are strong willed, you can automaticaly step all over others.

Well, this kind of bullying tatics do not work with ME

i am kind of person if you yell at me, i WILL yell back. if you try to hit me, I WILL hit you back twice as hard.

a long time ago, i heard this classic story on how people like you behaves.

apparently, this guy who worked as a disability community worker arranged for some of his clients to work for this church one day during the week. so his clients has something to do during the week.

anyway, after a while, he noticed that after his clients are finished. the old lady at the church office always only invite him to have tea, not his clients.

when he aired the concern to that old woman. The woman responded by pointedly invite only him to tea again next week.

i am sure that old woman, just like you, would find someway to twist scripure to justify her behaviours too.

It's so sad to see the ignorance that you spew. Mainly because I think you really believe it. I'm not old. I got married very young and had my first child at 17. Sheesh, I may be middle aged, but a Golden haired saint I am not.

I don't participate in gluttony. Never did. You keep trying to heap condemnation on me and I rebuke that in the name of Jesus. I bind condemnation off of my life by the blood of Jesus that covers me. '

No one has yelled at you, no one has tried to hit you... but great Christian witness by the way that you go about acting uglier then the sinful behaviors you accuse in others. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but you confess, you hit back twice as hard. Nice...

As for who invites who for tea... I guess you are getting at this. I have people I am related to who are infact Gay. My niece comes here for Christmas when I host my family. We have a great time. My cousin is invited here for every event we have, holidays, graduations, bbq's, birthdays. We see them both throughout the year and we love them, they enjoy our home, they are welcome in our home.

You really do just judge what you do not know and spew venom towards the body of Christ who has done nothing to you. It's really sad when I see you have posted to this topic again, because I know it's going to be filled with immaturity, resentment, ignorance and hate. It's just so sad.

 

[Cotjones]

regardless, not everyone shares christian values, and this country is a democracy.

As far as I see it, in matters of government the people should decide.

I think Gay couples should have the same rights married couples have, but would prefer that they did not use the term "marriage" for the title of the legal contract. According to polls, the majority of people seem to feel this way.

 

[Cotjones]

I'm a glutton, but I weigh 145lbs and have a 5% BFP. If I don't get at least 4000 calories a day I feel week and shaky. Is that a sin?

 

[Grace51]

I'm a glutton, but I weigh 145lbs and have a 5% BFP. If I don't get at least 4000 calories a day I feel week and shaky. Is that a sin?

that was a mere example to get her understand the treat others how you wanted to be treated principle.

 

[Kensington7]

that was a mere example to get her understand the treat others how you wanted to be treated principle.

But you don't know me well enough to imply that I don't. You certainly don't know me well enough to know or imply that I need to understand any principle of God.

May I ask how old you are? And how long you have been saved? What is your biblical education if any? Just wondering.

 

[beggarsall]

My answer . . . in a word . . . both

Here's my deal. We live in a broken, sin-infested world. Our bodies are constantly deteriorating, new diseases and deformities are popping up all the time, so I'm not convinced it's too much of a stretch for someone to be born with all sorts of screwed up hormones or something and be born gay.

Sure, I can get behind something like that.

At the same time I absolutely know that for many people it's simply a choice. It may not always seem like a choice to that person. For example, a girl, molested by her father, grows up to fear and despise the touch of a man. That happens, and it's more or less a choice. Nurture over nature and all that jazz.

At the end of the day, it's really irrelevant, because it's a sin either way. The bible's clear on that. I'm just glad the bible's also clear that Jesus died for ALL of man's sins. Yep. Every single one of them . . .

Thank God!

 

[Grace51]

But you don't know me well enough to imply that I don't. You certainly don't know me well enough to know or imply that I need to understand any principle of God.

May I ask how old you are? And how long you have been saved? What is your biblical education if any? Just wondering.

at first i though it might be because that english is my second language. but now i realize you simply do not read what i have wrote properly, nor did you make an effort to comprehend what i am trying to say.

i am definitely not as old as you. but i have enough education to know what critical thinking is. as for how long i have saved? well, if you are chrisitian you would know that the amount of time we are saved is irrelevant. so people can be saved for 30 years and act like a baby.

 

[Kensington7]

at first i though it might be because that english is my second language. but now i realize you simply do not read what i have wrote properly, nor did you make an effort to comprehend what i am trying to say.

i am definitely not as old as you. but i have enough education to know what critical thinking is. as for how long i have saved? well, if you are chrisitian you would know that the amount of time we are saved is irrelevant. so people can be saved for 30 years and act like a baby.

What I do not understand is that you line yourself up with nonbelievers, and you fault and even attack and blame the believers, your brothers and sisters in Christ. No matter what we tell you, you falsely accuse us. No matter how much we try to tell you truth, you say we lie.

I don't understand it and I am just to the point that I don't care any more. You just want to lash out. And I am just not interested in your games. Jesus is my LORD, I am saved by grace through faith in Him and what He provided for me on Calvary 2000 years ago. I am a blood bought child of the Living God. And I am not going to justify why I call sin, sin, any longer.

Jesus loves the sinner, he ate with them. He also loves his believers and those are who He will call home to live with him forever. He does not insult them and try to verbally beat them up as you do.

 

[Grace51]

What I do not understand is that you line yourself up with nonbelievers, and you fault and even attack and blame the believers, your brothers and sisters in Christ. No matter what we tell you, you falsely accuse us. No matter how much we try to tell you truth, you say we lie.

I don't understand it and I am just to the point that I don't care any more. You just want to lash out. And I am just not interested in your games. Jesus is my LORD, I am saved by grace through faith in Him and what He provided for me on Calvary 2000 years ago. I am a blood bought child of the Living God. And I am not going to justify why I call sin, sin, any longer.

Jesus loves the sinner, he ate with them. He also loves his believers and those are who He will call home to live with him forever. He does not insult them and try to verbally beat them up as you do.

whatever, it is you who spread lies by saying i do not line up with believer?

i already says it thousands of times my agreement with scripture that homosexual lifestyle is a sin. it is you who keep insisting i was wrong blah blah blah because i do not agree with your BS on your sense of entitlement to point fingers at others regardless of whether that is in their best interest.

the only people i do not aligh with is people like you who uses God word to justify such entitlement.

stop acting like your two are the SOLE representative for Christ body.