Islam Pagan

[Booko]

Great Post! its amazing how so many christians don't see many of the spiritual truths this man teaches, along with his other teachings concerning who the aliens are

It's difficult to see many spiritual truths coming from someone who produces so many factual errors.

Or as The Man once said, a bad tree does not bring forth good fruit.

 

[Jonathan95]

And if he's that uncareful about a video, why should I think he's right about other things? Why should I not assume he's just as uncareful in his study if he's this careless about something he puts out in public?



This is falsehood that makes the rounds on the Internet like the worst form of gossip. If you do not like people saying things about your own religion that are not true, then I urge you to follow the Golden Rule and not spread this falsehood about someone else's religion any further.



Neither do I believe that stones are either demonic or not. Nor do I believe a rock can have more power than God. So I do not get all excited about rocks.



Mandorlas can be found in mathematics and various fields of science. Does that make math and science demonic and things to be avoided?

No. But it's obvious in this case, like using the mandorla as an entrance to the Mosque, that it was intended. Why would they use a mandorla, and not some other shape? I believe it's Pagan symbolism.

Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

 

[LoAmmi]

No. But it's obvious in this case, like using the mandorla as an entrance to the Mosque, that it was intended. Why would they use a mandorla, and not some other shape? I believe it's Pagan symbolism.

I have seen it claimed that the Star of David is a pagan symbol or even the menorah.

 

[Booko]

I myself have heard Satan laughing at me in an evil voice, in a dream, lately. It was the exact same laugh I heard when I was around 14 years, I wasn't Christian back then. I was awake, and heard that voice then. I heard demonic voices for like 1 month, and I heard those same voices in a nightmare too, with a demonic girl in it. I believe it was after I tried out fortune cards, with a girl in school, she's into Occult movies and series, and stuff.

Jonathan, especially considering your age, and I mean this in all kindness, have you consulted a doctor too? I say this because of my cousin who had some rather similar things happen. She was diagnosed with a medical problem and given medicine and the problems went away as long as she stayed on the medicine. My brother-in-law has not had visions of this sort, but during his teens he got very paranoid, and that turns out to be a problem with brain chemicals as well.

The brain runs on a delicate balance of chemicals, and various physical things can toss the balance off, resulting in experiences like you describe.

You probably already know that there are Christian groups that have rites of exorcism. What you may not realize is that before exorcisms are performed you need to rule out these physical ailments first.

Of course, praying for guidance and help is also essential. But so are doctors. Because some physical ailments have spiritual roots, and some seemingly spiritual problems may turn out to be just physical. And often things are a mix of the two.

There are many many dedicated Christians on Christianforums. Why are demon attacks not common among them, if Satan has Christians as his favorite targets?

Seducing spirits in my dreams too, I'm getting sexual dreams. It's demonic.

Or a sign of a physical imbalance of some sort.

Really -- my son gets cataleptic seizures as a reaction to some chemicals that can be found in processed foods. If all you did was see him seize up, fall to the floor and become rigid as a piece of wood and be unable to respond, you would think it might be demons too, but really it's the body not doing well with being poisoned by chemicals it cannot deal with. And what proceeds those seizures is often an outburst of vulgarity that he would not use in real life, so that makes it even more...weird. Hundreds of years ago when we knew far less about the human body I'm sure people would think he was possessed.

We did our due diligence with the conventional medical doctors, but the neurologists found no problem with the EEG or physical problems in the brain.

I was suspicious because these seizures only happen when he's eating college food. They never happen when he's on break. And in my house, I kid you not, you will not find ONE artificial chemical in any food here. So I put 2 and 2 together and started looking to see if chemicals in food were triggering the seizures -- and sure enough that's what it was.

 

[awitch]

Jonathan, especially considering your age, and I mean this in all kindness, have you consulted a doctor too? I say this because of my cousin who had some rather similar things happen. She was diagnosed with a medical problem and given medicine and the problems went away as long as she stayed on the medicine. My brother-in-law has not had visions of this sort, but during his teens he got very paranoid, and that turns out to be a problem with brain chemicals as well.

The demons in your dreams may also be from night terrors or sleep paralysis. This is the common explanation for alien abduction, but for a person with your religious inclinations, I suspect your subconscious is substituting demons for aliens.

 

[Booko]

I know a woman whose grandchild or something, would wake up early in the morning to watch Cartoons. He was like 6 years I think. He watched a lot of Cartoons. He'd become really aggressive, and scratch his sister in the face, and other cruel stuff. He'd become rebellious. He had toy-guns too. When they removed those stuff, and he stopped with cartoons, along with that, he stopped having nightmares. He also became really nice to his sister, and they became best friends.

Um, ok but that isn't exactly documented, Jonathan. It's an anecdote, and I believe you, but there's a ton of information we don't have.

My brother was hyper as anything. Then we removed Hawaiian Punch from his diet and he calmed down. The red dye was triggering hyperactivity in him. That happened quite a bit, and with boys more than girls.

So for all we know this boy had his diet changed somehow and that's why the nightmares stopped.

As for removing the toy guns and cartoons, letting your child play with whatever and watch whatever with no guidance from the parent is not good parenting. Kids will model behaviour -- it's the parent's responsibility to guide them to an understanding that violence is not the primary way to solve problems.

Maybe what happened is the parents figured they had a problem and then took steps to deal with it.

Scripture says that they "sold their souls" to the devil by their
occult practices! (2 Kings 17:17)

2 Kings 17:17 Now Jonathan and Ahimaaz stayed by Enrogel; for they might not be seen to come into the city: and a wench went and told them; and they went and told king David.

Where does that happen?

God says witchcraft is an abomination in His sight.
Deuteronomy 18:9-14

And nowhere in that passage does it say that demons will possess you if you do any of those practices. Just that it's an "abomination."

It's not hard to imagine why God might not want His followers to allow pagan practices to infiltrate the religion He gave on Sinai. One wonders if Judaism would even exist now if such precautions were not taken. It would've been assimilated into the surrounding tribes and their paganism over time.

Some of the rest of that is about divination and similar things. It might be worth a separate thread just on that. My own religion does not look well upon divination, so that much we have in common.

Also, when it comes to the Bible's references about witches, be aware that you're reading in translation and occasionally the translation is not so good.

For example, the bit about "suffer not a witch to live" apparently reads more like "suffer not a poisoner to live", or so those who actually read Hebrew tell me.

Not that I'm saying the Bible says witchcraft is ok -- but more like tread carefully -- you're working from a translation and in a time that is very different from when those verses were given. If you're not careful it can lead to some serious mistakes.

Like hanging and burning women as witches when the original verse was talking about poisoners.

 

[Booko]

I agree with LoAmmi: a vivid imagination.

Indeed. At that age our son had an imaginary friend called "Clipper" that lived in the stairwell on the opposite side of his bedroom wall.

Odds are it was inspired by sounds of the neighbors in the apartment beneath us coming into the building.

Also my husband had a habit of watching Remington Steele reruns during our son's time to rest after eating, and our son started displaying signs of dealing with things he didn't like by shooting at them. So dh changed the channel to something a little easier to deal with than shoot-em-ups and the behaviour went away.

 

[Booko]

Sexual desire is Sin.

Sexual desire for your wife is not sin, Jonathan. It's how we procreate and it's a gift from God that ties a couple closer together. It's what Jesus talked about when he said the man and woman join together in one flesh. If it's only a fleshly union, then no, that is not right, but the physical side is there for a reason too, and was created by God.

It's like anything else in life -- taken outside the rightful bounds, it becomes sin.

For example: Eating is not a sin -- it's a necessity of life. Gluttony is a sin.

I found out inappropriate contentography was sin, that was one of the main reasons I came back to Jesus, to find deliverance, because The Holy Spirit convicted me of it.

Jonathan, inappropriate contentography is a sin because it takes sex outside the rightful bounds. inappropriate contentography demeans those who are used in the production of it and in those who consume it. It takes something designed to bring a man and woman into a union in marriage and perverts it so that it becomes damaging.

I don't really have a desire to find a mate. There aren't any Christian girls on fire for Yeshua here. Haven't seen any atleast. Premarital sex is sin. I will definetly not be together with an unbeliever, we have nothing in common > nothing to talk about.

Well, you're young yet for that anyway. And if God desires you to have a wife, it's not wise to fight Him on that score.

But biology will do what it will no matter you like it or not. Les emissions nocturnale are not a sin, but just the way biology (designed by God) works.

(2 Timothy 2:22)

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Timothy was a young man, some say he was around 17-18 if I recall right.

Presumably. But consider this: If sex was totally evil, why would Jesus even be at that wedding at Cana and not say something about it? Why would He even support such a thing by turning water into wine to support the family providing for the guests?

Ah, but that was a *wedding* not inappropriate contentography. Big difference.

And yes, just as when one is fasting it's probably unwise to spend a lot of time at grocery stores and restaurants, when you are not married it is probably unwise to spend time thinking about sex.

 

[Booko]

I've heard people in the Old Testament and New Testament days and so, got married at really young ages, is it so?

Yes. Life was often short. You had children while you could.

Maybe that's why? Maybe it's supposed to be so?

To be honest, I do think we would do well to move into a kind of society where it made sense for people to marry younger. Waiting until you're in your mid-20s and even 30s seems very tough to expect most people to manage. But marrying younger requires healthy families who are able to help young people tell the difference between mere infatuations and relationships that have some hope of working out. Two people don't get married -- families do.

But at the moment families don't seem to be particularly healthy, so it may not be such a good idea...yet.

 

[Booko]

No. But it's obvious in this case, like using the mandorla as an entrance to the Mosque, that it was intended. Why would they use a mandorla, and not some other shape? I believe it's Pagan symbolism.

I dunno, because as I said, mandorlas show up in areas like mathematics* and astronomy -- two areas of science that Muslims advanced human knowledge in a big way.

*srsly -- Venn diagrams even

Also, I would point out that an arch is not a mandorla, despite what your source says. And they're used because -- they are structurally sound and stand the test of time. It's an engineering fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with religious symbolism or demons. And that also has something to do with mathematics.

Certain patterns show up in the world of Creation -- in mathematics, music, natural structures, and biology.

Yes, some of these symbols are present in religious symbolism, but that does not make them Satanic because one guy says so.

God created these patterns, so if they're Satanic, God made them so.

If someone is worshipping such a symbol instead of God, well, that would be a problem. But it isn't the symbol that's the problem -- it's the not worshipping God that humans choose to do.

 

[Booko]

I have seen it claimed that the Star of David is a pagan symbol or even the menorah.

There may well be some pagans who've used a Star of David before. It's not a complicated geometric design.

But a menorah? Wow, really? How can something from one of the two most purely monotheistic religions in the world possibly be...pagan?

 

[LoAmmi]

There may well be some pagans who've used a Star of David before. It's not a complicated geometric design.

I pointed that out when it was brought up. It is two triangles in opposing directions.

But a menorah? Wow, really? How can something from one of the two most purely monotheistic religions in the world possibly be...pagan?

Because they think the menorah is just the thing Jews use at Hanukkah. I find that there are a number of Christians that only stumble into the Jewish Bible to look for Jesus and then rush out. These are the ones that would say such a thing.

 

[Jonathan95]

Jonathan, especially considering your age, and I mean this in all kindness, have you consulted a doctor too? I say this because of my cousin who had some rather similar things happen. She was diagnosed with a medical problem and given medicine and the problems went away as long as she stayed on the medicine. My brother-in-law has not had visions of this sort, but during his teens he got very paranoid, and that turns out to be a problem with brain chemicals as well.

No, I'm fine now, after intercession and fasting.

There are many many dedicated Christians on Christianforums. Why are demon attacks not common among them, if Satan has Christians as his favorite targets?

Maybe some have high callings. Satans time is short too. Maybe he wanted to ruin me, as I was getting closer to Jesus, because maybe he knew I'd be a threat for him. I had increased prayer times too, I believe he wanted to destroy my prayer life too.

Really -- my son gets cataleptic seizures as a reaction to some chemicals that can be found in processed foods. If all you did was see him seize up, fall to the floor and become rigid as a piece of wood and be unable to respond, you would think it might be demons too, but really it's the body not doing well with being poisoned by chemicals it cannot deal with. And what proceeds those seizures is often an outburst of vulgarity that he would not use in real life, so that makes it even more...weird. Hundreds of years ago when we knew far less about the human body I'm sure people would think he was possessed.

I'm not unhealthy, so. It can't be connected to that, since this started happening since I came closer to Jesus and so, and probably Satan wanted to destroy me. I'm fine after intercession and fasting so I don't believe it was anything medical.

So for all we know this boy had his diet changed somehow and that's why the nightmares stopped.

Haven't changed my diet. I'm fine after intercession and fasting. Fasting breaks down strongholds. When I was fasting I wouldn't get tempted so much, like I was before in school a lot.

2 Kings 17:17 Now Jonathan and Ahimaaz stayed by Enrogel; for they might not be seen to come into the city: and a wench went and told them; and they went and told king David.

Where does that happen?

I don't know, I took the verse from a website, where they had verses about witchcraft and so.

And nowhere in that passage does it say that demons will possess you if you do any of those practices. Just that it's an "abomination."

The power of WItchcraft is not of God, so where is the power from? It's demonic. They invoke evil spirits.

Not that I'm saying the Bible says witchcraft is ok -- but more like tread carefully -- you're working from a translation and in a time that is very different from when those verses were given. If you're not careful it can lead to some serious mistakes.

Like hanging and burning women as witches when the original verse was talking about poisoners.

Witchcraft is never okay, it is demonic. It gives legal ground for Satan.

The demons in your dreams may also be from night terrors or sleep paralysis. This is the common explanation for alien abduction, but for a person with your religious inclinations, I suspect your subconscious is substituting demons for aliens.

Night terrors? I know there are Spirits of Fear though. If it had anything to do with something natural or so, then it wouldn't go away after fasting and intercession. Well, if it was, then obviously Yeshua healed me when I received intercession.

Sleep Paralysis is demonic then. Is it really possible for this to happen in dreams anyways? Alien abductions are real, people that have been abducted would call upon the name of Jesus, and maybe rebuke the aliens in the name of Jesus. It would stop then.

I know one who got into Astral projection, New Age stuff. He consulted some Occult woman, and asked how he could meet aliens. He just wanted to go away from this world. Well, he'd see alien(s).

 

[Jonathan95]

I pointed that out when it was brought up. It is two triangles in opposing directions.


Because they think the menorah is just the thing Jews use at Hanukkah. I find that there are a number of Christians that only stumble into the Jewish Bible to look for Jesus and then rush out. These are the ones that would say such a thing.

Huh.. Yeshua celebrated The festival of lights (Hanukkah). The menorah is also connected to The Holy SPirit, how can they say it's pagan?

 

[Montalban]

What do you mean? I haven't watched/read it, but obviously he exposes UFOs.

Poisoning the well in this instance is where instead of dealing with the veracity of what he says (see video in the OP) one questions him based on something he said somewhere else.

Just say I said "Aliens run my government". If I then said "The sky is blue" the fact I was wrong one time doesn't mean that I'm going to be wrong every time.

 

[Montalban]

Montalban is saying that I'm trying to discredit Hoggard by ridiculing him before anyone has a chance to hear him out.

Absolutely. It would be great to look at the veracity of what he says here (in the video in the OP)

 

[Montalban]

Great Post! its amazing how so many christians don't see many of the spiritual truths this man teaches, along with his other teachings concerning who the aliens are

What spiritual truth? I waited for 2mins (which I'll never get back) and hadn't seen him make any point at all.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Huh.. Yeshua celebrated The festival of lights (Hanukkah). The menorah is also connected to The Holy SPirit, how can they say it's pagan?

The same way you're saying Islam is pagan.

Misinformation and ignorance.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoAmmi]

Huh.. Yeshua celebrated The festival of lights (Hanukkah). The menorah is also connected to The Holy SPirit, how can they say it's pagan?

The one at Hanukkah is not even the important one.

 

[Montalban]

The same way you're saying Islam is pagan.

In what way, specifically?